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Discussion Dare not to call yourself spirit filled if..

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by Alithis, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    what sin is it you speak of that we "all" do ? and read 1 john ch 3 all of it .
    no one has a said a disciple can never sin but that we do not have to because we are free and we certainly DO NOT continue to do so . John states that anyone who continues to practice sin is not born of God
     
  2. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    no im going to stomp over this one ..its a lie . you just gave the devil power over Jesus and that is impossible .
     
  3. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    some are 5 10 and 15yr old babes .. scary . picture 25 yr old men sitting in pews wearing diapers ..ick
     
  4. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are always a little 'fleshy' or a lot even look at Paul his body didn't let him do whatever he wanted. Always tending to do wrong, and he was very 'advanced' in the faith.
     
  5. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All kind of sins, you are perfect? don't have character problems angers maybe some dirty thought about something? it can be anything and if we say we are out of sin we are lying the bible tell us that.
     
  6. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    first , sin is a work you do ,yes it originates in a thought an intent an imagination of the heart etc , but it is not a sin until you act it out , just as faith does not exist until you do it . . the scripture tells us plain what to do with ALL thoughts and imaginations that try to exalt themselves over the knowledge of Christ . we take them captive pull them down and demolish them .

    we walk in obedience to the holy Spirit and we will NOT fulfill the desire of the flesh .it is impossible to sin while obeying the holy spirit . if thoughts come and they are sinful then we reject them ,its not sin that they come its sin if we entertain and accept them because to do so we have to tell the holy Spirit to be quiet and go away .
    a lot of people wil argue ... but Jesus said if you lust in your heart you have already committed adultery . SO .. DONT DO IT . shunning evil thoughts the devil and flesh try to bring has become such a way of life for me that it is like swatting flies . ya do it you ont really think on it much. Jesus came to set us free and he did so . start waling like one who believes he did so . its called the action of faith.
    This one has been addressed above , paul is NOT stating how it is for him ..read ALL the text (paul didnt put chapters and verses in there) Paul was describing what life before being made a new creation through baptism and the holy spirit ,was like , he was describing how it was before he got set free . he then Goes on to praise God who set him free in Christ . NEVER but NEVER take a single sentence and build a theology on it .
     
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    The key is to not quench the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

    Paul said, something chilling: However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

    This is what you should live your life by. If anyone is still struggling with willful sin, the seed is not yet in them. Oh, the Holy Spirit may still be drawing them, but until they truly repent, they are not saved. Close is not close enough. Friend, I was in church for 30 years and had no power over sin, so couldn't relate even a little bit to Romans 8:9 or 1 John 3:9. What you are describing is the same powerlessness, though you want to build up your own puny muscles by exercise. All the exercising in the world will not make you righteous, as our righteousness is as filthy rags. You have to have the Holy Spirit. Then, and only then, can you truly say "I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me."

    The problem with most in the church is not having truly repented. Some churches even call repentance, a "work," as well as obedience. This demonic twist of justification by faith has its own rewards, but it won't save you. The "reward" is false assurance, like an ostrich with his head in the sand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  8. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Again go and read the entire letter of John , he did not write a sentence he wrote a letter . you've used that sentence outside of its context ( as church has probably taught you )and therefore changed its meaning ..if you read on you will see that another sentence appears that contradicts it on the surface , but read further still and it all comes into place
     
  9. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I wish it was that easy. John wrote with an Eastern style, and we are reading it with Western eyes. Never the two shall meet.

    Have you read what I said about this before?
     
  10. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, thank you. Maybe it's just that misunderstanding that 'we do not sin ever' i'm saying we all sin in some way or another i do not mean serious sins which christian should avoid but anyways sometimes fall on them at times and are forgiven but sins nonetheless. If not we are like Christ who did not sin and the bible tells we sin and if we say we are out of sins we lie.

    'This i write to you to not sin, but if anybody did sin we have an attorney Jesus.'

    'If we say we are out of sin we are not in the truth'

    'i find this law in my body against the law of God'
     
  11. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You cannot achieve perfection in this life to be like Christ without sin, so there will be always be some sins there... more than you think. This should be out of the discussion.
     
  12. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    not yet . i have written on it also but its longer to explain. its also entwined with a persons spiritual maturity and is why later john refers to writing to children ,young men, and fathers
     
  13. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    One thing I find you doing is quoting 1 John 1:8 as if it was about a Christian. No it is about those without the Holy Spirit saying they don't sin. That would be impossible. Then the next verse is how to become a Christian - Repent and be cleansed. Then as in Acts 2:38 you will receive the Spirit. Those two verses must be read TOGETHER in context.

    Understand?
     
  14. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    no your using that to excuse "A" sin in ones life . no in the flesh we are not perfect but we are ever being perfected , and we ARE set free , so we do not HAVE TO, beyond our own will, Go and DO any actions which we KNOW to be sin .
    ie we love god first . so we do not steal or lie etc ..
    or commit adultery .we are never speaking about ambiguities . we are speaking in terms of that which is undoubtedly obviously SIN to do .
    so if a professing christian man walks up turns his pc on and types a search for porn . nothing but nothing is forcing beyond his will to do that . he has had a thought ,sought after the thought , decided an action and by his own will followed through on that action and is now fully acting out a work of sin ..
    thats the truth of the matter . the devil didnt make him, the flesh didnt force him , he chose that course of action . now he will lie and lie and lie about that fact to himself. but it remains a fact of truth . he did what HE wants to do NOT what JESUS wants him to do , for one reason , he does not LOVE the lord JESUS. im not speaking theories here , if you love the lord JEsus more then sin and hate the sin .you will not DO the action of the sin ever .

    I was that man .
    no religious nice pie church theories will change the truth . anyone who continues in the practice of sin is not born of God yet. i don't care what lies people are taught from the pulpits . the word of God is true and true and true. once Jesus has set is free .. the devil has ZERO power to make us do works of SIN .

    let me explain another way too because people have been really tangeld about what sin is .
    the WAGE of sin is death . what do you get a wage for ? your work .
    if you go to work and your boss says hey you havnt got your duties done .. but you say no boss but im having lots of thoughts about doing them .. hes not going to be impressed and hes not going to pay you. no its when you DO the action of work that you wil get paid for it . just so the wage of SIN is death , they wage is paid to you for the WORK of sin .. you DO .not for the thought you had , but all action begins within decision to carry it out . so kill the thought ,end the action.
     
  15. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Yes, in chapter 2 I believe.
    @NBB you might learn something here.

    Well, in short, it is about the Semitic (Hebrew) writing styles that the apostles used. They could read each others writings and understand exactly what the author meant, but we can't, because we are seeing through western glasses and how the Greeks would write.

    Here is the first chapter from 5-10. Notice how John went back and forth between light and darkness, well this is how we know that the rest of the passage is contrasts also. I'll color the light in red, and the darkness in blue. Then you can see the contrast clearly. Now a Greek style would put all the red in one paragraph, and all the blue in another. That is the way our mind works, but once you start to learn the Semitic writing styles, the truth is very clear.

    Semitic contrasts
    5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

    Here is chapter three.

    Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
     
  16. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, but we agree that we cannot be 'out of sin' only in heaven?, there is always something, and i'm not saying we can live practicing sin but we are full of errors. And there is sin of death and sin that is not of death.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  17. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    This reminds me of a post I wrote the other day to someone on "works."

    With your old nature it is a work to be righteous.
    But when you get a new nature that is dead to sin, it is a work to sin willfully. Its not as easy as it was with your old nature that was always drawn to lawlessness.
     
  18. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    and @Alithis

    Please read this carefully on the two different types of sin that the apostles are speaking of. It will help. This explains why a Christian cannot sin according to 1 John 3:9 that has caused so much confusion.

    In John 3:1-10 (vs. 4) John said what kind of sin it is. LAWLESSNESS. Only a person walking in darkness commits lawlessness. Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    I always insert "willful," because it is of the will and in full knowledge. It could also be called lawless, presumptuous, or tempting God. It is with our knowledge of sin. This should give us pause: James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

    Now check out Leviticus 5:15. Unintentional sin is called a TRESPASS (ring any bells) (We will commit trespasses, also called debts in some translations, and is included in the Lord's Prayer. But both are unintentional sin. “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering..."

    1 John 1:7 talks about a person walking in the light; however, the blood of Jesus is still cleansing him of sin. So if someone is walking in the Spirit, will he commit a lawless/willful/presumptuous sin; or a trespass sin not of his will.

    A Christian doesn't commit the lawless/willful/presumptuous sins. But if they do, in the OT they killed them, as there was no sacrifice for them who were of God's chosen people. They knew better.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

    Do word searches: unintentional, trespass, presumptuous, willful, tempt ("Thou shalt not tempt the Lord Thy God" said by Jesus to Satan in the wildreness)


    Presumptuous:

    Exodus 21:14

    Numbers 15:30

    Deuteronomy 1:43

    Deuteronomy 17:12

    Deuteronomy 17:13

    Deuteronomy 18:22

    Psalm 19:13

    2 Peter 2:10

    Lawless:

    Matthew 7:23

    Matthew 13:41

    Matthew 23:28

    Matthew 24:12

    Acts 2:23

    Romans 6:19

    2 Corinthians 6:14

    2 Thessalonians 2:7

    1 Timothy 1:9

    Titus 2:14

    Hebrews 1:9

    1 John 3:4



    Trespass:

    Leviticus 5:15
    “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

    Leviticus 22:14

    Deuteronomy 4:42

    Deuteronomy 19:4

    Joshua 20:3

    Joshua 20:5

    Ezekiel 45:20


    Unintentional:

    Leviticus 4:2

    Leviticus 4:13

    Leviticus 4:22

    Leviticus 4:27

    Leviticus 5:15

    Leviticus 22:14

    Numbers 15:22-29

    Deuteronomy 4:42

    Deuteronomy 19:4

    Joshua 20:3

    Joshua 20:5

    Ezekiel 45:20
     
  19. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But there always will be in my opinion sins that we commit willfully and we need to repent and ask forgiveness, if for example we get angered and say something hurtful thats it, a willfull sin and we need to ask forgiveness, some Christians sin heavily in some areas and they are sincere when they say they want to stop but cannot stop doing it, there they need help of the holy spirit to kill the flesh etc.
    Can someone reach a point that there no need for forgiveness anymore because they do not sin willfully or not? i don't think so.
     
  20. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    yes its reversed now we are IN Christ . We are now being drawn towards righteousness all the time and to sin we have to pull against that drawing unto righteousness resist god and do the opposite . and this is why people who do so are very miserable because they can get NO peace .
    For while they fool themselves and say ..i"m struggling with such and such a sin , in fact it is GOD they are struggling against in order to DO that Sin. if they turn and bow and yield to the drawing of the holy Spirit their struggle against God will end and they will finally be AT REST and this rest is eternal (it is true essence of entering into the eternal true sabbath which the physical sabbath is pointing to ) IN this yielded rest we are no longer at enmity with God but at peace in and with him .having rested from all striving against him.

    (yes i know this might sound a bit topsy turvy to some ..its an understanding i have where the lord reversed the religious mindset understanding i previously had :) )
     
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