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Daniel's 70 Weeks

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Hoonbaba, Apr 19, 2002.

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  1. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    Hi,

    I'm just curious to know:

    How do YOU look at Daniels' 70 weeks? (Dan 9:24-26)

    Would anyone here agree with this page:

    http://www.notdeceived.net/seventieth_week.shtml

    By the way, the author of that article is NOT a preterist.

    God bless!

    -Jason
     
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  2. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I believe that 69 weeks have been fulfilled, the 69th week being fulfilled by Jesus coming as Messiah and being "cut off", and that the 70th week has yet to be fulfilled, but that it will be fulfilled after the tribulation, the last 7 year period.

    So I guess I would disagree.
     
  3. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    Hi Mandy,

    Isn't that inconsistent? Why would there be some massive 2000 year gap between the 69th week and the 70th week?

    -Jason
     
  4. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I don't think it's inconsistant at all.

    The time gap between the 69th and 70th week is the age of grace.
    The 70th week is eschatological, it is the final period and is yet to be fulfilled.
    My take on it is that "the prince" is the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and the beast of Rev. 13. After the church is removed, he will make a covenant with Israel and they will accept him as their messiah, but in the midst of the last 7 years(the 70th week), he will break it. Dan. 9:25-27
     
  5. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    That doesn't make any sense, because that means I can look at every 'week' to be more than a full 'week' as if to say the first week was actually 200 years, and the 2nd week is 1/2 a year, and the 3rd week is 700 years. Where's the biblical basis for the time between the 69th and the 70th to be an age of grace?

    This is exactly what Jewish skeptics are saying. Check this out:

    "Christians, for lack of a better answer, claim that the 70th week will take place when Jesus returns in his second coming as a king. The problem was caused because Daniel mentioned a total of 70 weeks, and then he specified 7 plus 62, leaving one remaining. The Christians say that the first 69 weeks were consecutive, then there is at least a 1900 year gap, and sooner or later the 70th week will occur. This is obviously a very forced explanation, born of desperation." [You take Jesus, I'll Take God: How to Refute Christian Missionaries (Los Angeles: Hamoroh Press, 1980)p. 31]

    Would you believe me if many people in history believed the 70 weeks were fulfilled and that it has nothing to do with some end of the world?

    By the way, have you read the entire article?

    -Jason
     
  6. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    Yes I read the entire article and I'm sorry, but, I still disagree. To me it makes perfect sense that the 70th week has yet to be fulfilled.
     
  7. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    I believe it has yet to be fulfilled as well.

    I believe that we are still in the first 69 of the "70 weeks" of Daniel 9:24-27, that the 70th "week" will be the year after Jesus' 2nd coming, and that the 70 "weeks" will be complete when Daniel 9:24 and Isaiah 4:3-4 and Zechariah 14:19-21 are complete in physical Jerusalem and physical Israel.
     
  8. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +39
    Catholic
    I don't understand the logic with the the 69th week lasting more than a thousand years for the 70th week, when every week before the 69th week was consecutive and equal in length. I don't remember if I mentioned this before but this is not a preterist thing.

    God bless!

    -Jason
     
  9. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    I believe the 69th "week" will be a single year.

    In the Hebrew, "week" is the word for "seven" (shebuah), which has for its root the word for "complete" (shaba), so that "week" may represent "completion," which may refer in a sealed manner to the completion of time we call a year.

    I believe Daniel 9:24 could be saying that God would give physical Israel the 70 years it lost in their Babylonian captivity, but within those 70 years it must fulfill all righteousness.

    This of course was not done and could not be done before Christ.

    After Christ, the only commandment to restore the Jews to Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25) came in 1947 when the UN passed a resolution calling for the re-establishment of the state of Israel, something which had not existed since 70 AD.

    Because of Daniel 9:25, I believe that from the commandment to restore the nation of physical Israel, there may be 7 years, and 62 years, and that in the 69th year Christ may come and fulfill all the requirements of Daniel 9:24 in "thy holy city" of physical Jerusalem, and in "thy holy people" of physical Israel (and so also fulfilling Isaiah 4:3-4), by the end of the 70th year, just as he fulfilled them in his spiritual kingdom at his 1st coming, but apart from physical Jerusalem (Hebrews 13:12, Luke 13:35) and apart from most of physical Israel (Matthew 21:43).
     
  10. aChristian

    aChristian Member

    128
    +0
    Postrib,

    You wrote: In the Hebrew, "week" ... the word for "seven" (shebuah), ... has for its root the word for "complete" (shaba), so that "week" may represent "completion."

    I wonder if you are being deliberately deceptive here. I hope not.

    The Hebrew word for "complete" is "salam". It is not "shaba". The only meaning of the Hebrew word "shaba" is "seven." The number seven in scripture is sometimes used to picture things which are symbolically complete. But the Hebrew word "shaba" does not mean "complete" and it is never translated as "complete."

    That being the case, I believe what you wrote concerning the Hebrew words "shabua" and "shaba" is both inaccurate and deceptive. I hope not deliberately so.
     
  11. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    What word is Strong's Hebrew #7650 and what is its definition?
     
  12. aChristian

    aChristian Member

    128
    +0
    I'd reccommend you read some more recent and more thorough Hebrew word studies than the 112 year old tiny description of this word's meaning given in Strong's concordence. If you do you will find that more recent and far better Hebrew lexicons do not say that the root word on which shabua is based means "complete." However, even if Strong is right in mentioning the word "complete" he still tells us quite clearly that shaba "is used only as a denom[ination]." In other words it always means "seven." Your interpretation ignores this fact. Because it does, it cannot be taken seriously.
     
  13. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    Is that what Strong's says?
     
  14. aChristian

    aChristian Member

    128
    +0
    As I said, Strongs tells us that shaba "is used only as a denom[ination]." In other words, it should only be translated as "seven."

    Besides, you are not talking about the word daniel used in his "70 weeks" prophecy. You are talking about its root. If Daniel had wanted to use its root word he would have done so. He didn't. He used the larger word shabua, which means "a group of seven." To totally ignore the meaning of the actual word Daniel used and look for a different meaning in its root is, to put it mildly, terrible exegesis.
     
  15. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

    508
    +0
    Christian
    Does Strong say that for #7650?

    Is that Strong's definition for #7620?
     
  16. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

    312
    +1
    70 Sevens...

    The Bible NEVER mentions that these will be consecutive, it just states that there will be 70 seven-year time periods.

    Daniel 9:
    24 "Seventy 'sevens' [1] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish [2] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. [3]
    25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree [4] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, [5] the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. [6] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' [7] In the middle of the 'seven' [8] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him

    ...Anyone see anything here that would lead us to believe that these 70 Sevens are back-to-back?
     
  17. aChristian

    aChristian Member

    128
    +0
    Postrib,

    As I have reminded you before, Daniel 9:24-27 uses #7620, not #7650. So, lets discuss the meaning of the word in question. Strongs says #7620 means "sevened, i.e. a week (spec. of years): - seven, week."

    But then, you knewthat. So why did you ask?
     
  18. Mandy

    Mandy Well-Known Member

    +7
    I agree Josiah.
    There is nothing in Scripture that says that the 70 sevens would be consecutive.
     
  19. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

    +231
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Others
    Hi Mandy,

    I guess a good question would be, if the 70 sevens are not consecutive, then what purpose does the number "70" serve? What use would there be to mention 70 sevens if, in reality, the prophecy is not fulfilled in 70 sevens but in 470 sevens(I'm just using that number as an example). How would the prophecy be useful if a time gap is placed in it somewhere?

    The fact that Daniel said the prophecy would be fulfilled in 70 sevens is clearly a biblical mandate that the sevens would be consecutive, or else this prophecy cannot be judged or measured, or understood correctly. Not to mention that not only was the time given in Daniel 9, but the purpose of the 70 sevens was provided as well; "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy(v.24)." Daniel 9:24 should be reason enough to see the 70 as consecutive, because the 70 sevens were meant as a time limit. What use is a time limit of 70 sevens if thousands of years can get wedged in somewhere?

    Just adding my opinion to the rest.

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
  20. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    Jesus Christ was "cut off" (crucified) during week 70. After 69 completed weeks Jesus was cut off. This places Christ's crucifixion IN week 70 -- "in the midst of the week."

    The 70 weeks are complete, just like the original post says.

    God bless,
    GW
     
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