Daniel 9

[Shocker]

Dan 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

In order for these 70 weeks to have passed before our time some things need to happen.

1. Finish the transgression- The Jews have transgressed the Law(Dan 9:5-6), this culminated with Christs cruxifiction and as a result, the Jews were dispersed in 70ad when Rome destroyed Jerusalem. (to this day the Jews transgress the law, which is by faith, not works)

2. End of sin- Correct me if Im wrong but sin abounds to this day. Every day, humans across the world over are sinning.(Sin still exists)

3. Reconciliation for iniquity- Iniquity is sin, and the reconciling of sin is judgment. (judgment comes by Christ, and this has not happened yet)

4. Everlasting righteousness- This coincides with the end of sin, as the opposite of sin, is righteousness. If there is no sin, there can only be righteousness. (This has not happened) **A righteous man fears and puts his faith in God the father** Not everyone has done this.

5. Seal the vision and prophecy- There is still prophecy left to unfold, no matter what your eschatological views are. Christ has not returned, ergo, there is open prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled.

**Seal means make an end, finish, bring to a close**

(Seal)
châtham
khaw-tham'
A primitive root; to close up; especially to seal: - make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.

6. Annoint the Most Holy (place) Christ is God, and God doesn't need oil rubbed on him, rather, the anointing most likely signifies New Jerusalem and the reception of the righteous. (Exo 40:9)

Rev 3:12 "I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem"

(Most Holy)קדשׁ
qôdesh
ko'-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

 

[Shocker]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Total 70 weeks (Thy people are the Jews, meaning Jerusalem would need to be inhabited by Jews at present time if the prophecy was going to be fulfilled soon, and the Jews are in fact, in Jerusalem)

7 weeks- Restore and build Jerusalem

62 weeks-Time from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the crucifixion of Christ.

1 week-(Prince that shall come destroy) Covenant with many, last 7 years on earth as we currently know it before sin is done, everlasting righteousness is here and the Most Holy place is anointed.


Clearly, as anyone can see, the last week of Daniel has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[ebedmelech]

Dan 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

In order for these 70 weeks to have passed before our time some things need to happen.

1. Finish the transgression- The Jews have transgressed the Law, this culminated with Christs cruxifiction and as a result, the Jews were dispersed in 70ad when Rome destroyed Jerusalem. (to this day the Jews transgress the law, which is by faith, not works)

They finished the transgression when they crucified the Lord.

2. End of sin- Correct me if Im wrong but sin abounds to this day. Every day, humans across the world over are sinning.(Sin still exists)

No. Christ made an end of sin! Hebrews says it very plainly in Hebrews 1:3:
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

3. Reconciliation for iniquity- Iniquity is sin, and the reconciling of sin is judgment. (judgment comes by Christ, and this has not happened yet)

Your saved aren't you? Study reconciliation...read Epehesians 2:13-16.

4. Everlasting righteousness- This coincides with the end of sin, as the opposite of sin, is righteousness. If there is no sin, there can only be righteousness. (This has not happened) **A righteous man fears and puts his faith in God the father** Not everyone has done this.

Actually you really need to understand your righteousness is in Christ...He is our righteousness. We're told to wear it as a breastplate.

5. Seal the vision and prophecy- There is still prophecy left to unfold, no matter what your eschatological views are. Christ has not returned, ergo, there is open prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled.

Actually no. Daniel sealed it up in Daniel 12...those are the seals Christ is breaking in Revelation 6.

 

[Shocker]

Moving along..

Some wonder why 70 weeks (490 years) were determined on the Jews (thy people)

Dan 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

Dan 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

 

[Shocker]

They finished the transgression when they crucified the Lord.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

No. Christ made an end of sin! Hebrews says it very plainly in Hebrews 1:3:
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul sinned after Christ was crucified.

I think you meant to say "Christ removed the penalty for sin"

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Your saved aren't you? Study reconciliation...read Epehesians 2:13-16.

I am saved with faith in Christ Jesus.

Lev_6:30 And no sin offering, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation to reconcile withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: it shall be burnt in the fire.

Actually you really need to understand your righteousness is in Christ...He is our righteousness. We're told to wear it as a breastplate.

I couldn't agree more.. Christ is God.

Actually no. Daniel sealed it up in Daniel 12...those are the seals Christ is breaking in Revelation 6.

Ok, so let me get this straight.

The sealed prophecy, which comes after the 70 weeks, is sealed in Daniel 12?



Sorry, but you my friend make zero sense to me..

 

[ebedmelech]

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Ok Shocker. Let's take these one at a time because Daniel is laying out what happens in the 70 weeks of years.

This is the portion of Daniel 9:24 I'll address:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression,...

Let's first understand that this prophecy is about the Jews. Gabriel says to Daniel that the 70 weeks are dcreed for HIS PEOPLE. Daniel's people are the Jews and this prophecy concerns them.

When it speaks to finish "THE TRANSGRESSION"...the transgression is an act! This act was truly committed when the Lord was crucified!

The Lord confirms as much on the cross when He said "IT IS FINISHED"! What Jesus was referring to is "THE TRANSGRESSION" of Daniel 9:24!

That is what this portion is speaking of...it is the transgression of crucifying and rejecting the Lord Jesus.

 

[parousia70]

Correct me if Im wrong

With pleasure.
It's what I do every day.

Why are 70 weeks determined? To do these things:
1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy
6. to anoint the most Holy

1. Finish the Transgression.
Recall that to begin with, the Jews were in captivity for 490 years because of not honoring the Sabbath - they didn't give the land rest every seven years. The 70 years of capitivity in Babylon gave the land its rest. This is in 2 Chronicles 36- it's a whole lot of verses. Then God gives them another 490 years - maybe this time is their last chance.

2. Make an End of Sins.
Though we still sin, our sins no longer have power to prevent us from salvation. Jesus, by fulfilling the Law, ended sins strength. Sin is now utterly powerless.

3. Make Reconciliation for Iniquity.
Only Jesus could do this. He came to make reconciliation for us.

4. Bring in Everlasting Righteousness
Jesus Himself said that He fulfilled all righteousness.

5. Seal up the Vision and Prophecy
Contrary to what most teach about this passage, "seal up" doesn't mean to hide it from men's understanding until the last days. From Strong's, seal is [2856] chatham: meaning to close up, make an end of, stop. So Jesus made the end of this vision and prophecy. It doesn't say "all visions and prophecies" for you naysayers. It says "the vision..."

6. Anoint the Most Holy
Again, Jesus was anointed at His baptism in Mark 1. He is the Most Holy.

The 70 weeks ran consecutive, are complete, and lie behind us.

 

[parousia70]

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Unless there is no Law:

Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 1 Cor 15:56

As we are not Under the Law but under Grace (Romans 6:15) sin has no strength and is not imputed against us.

Sin is dead, powerless to keep anyone from Salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Shocker]

With pleasure.
It's what I do every day.

You try.. Ill give you that..

Why are 70 weeks determined? To do these things:
1. to finish the transgression
2. to make an end of sins
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy
6. to anoint the most Holy

Yes, I outlined this in the op.

1. Finish the Transgression.
Recall that to begin with, the Jews were in captivity for 490 years because of not honoring the Sabbath - they didn't give the land rest every seven years. The 70 years of capitivity in Babylon gave the land its rest. This is in 2 Chronicles 36- it's a whole lot of verses. Then God gives them another 490 years - maybe this time is their last chance.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Nope, the Jews still sin to this day, just like you and everyone else, everyone falls short of the Glory of God.

2. Make an End of Sins.
Though we still sin, our sins no longer have power to prevent us from salvation. Jesus, by fulfilling the Law, ended sins strength. Sin is now utterly powerless.

To those who accept Christ Jesus, our Lord.

Unless you are claiming to be sin free???

3. Make Reconciliation for Iniquity.
Only Jesus could do this. He came to make reconciliation for us.

And he will, oh ye of little faith, don't worry... Jesus hasn't returned yet..

4. Bring in Everlasting Righteousness
Jesus Himself said that He fulfilled all righteousness.

Use scripture when you are making a point..

5. Seal up the Vision and Prophecy
Contrary to what most teach about this passage, "seal up" doesn't mean to hide it from men's understanding until the last days. From Strong's, seal is [2856] chatham: meaning to close up, make an end of, stop. So Jesus made the end of this vision and prophecy. It doesn't say "all visions and prophecies" for you naysayers. It says "the vision..."

Strongs says seal as in stop, close, done, finish.. We are not talking about the sealing of the prophecy till the last days in Daniel 12, stay on topic, this thread is about Daniel 9.

חתם
châtham
khaw-tham'
A primitive root; to close up; especially to seal: - make an end, mark, seal (up), stop.

6. Anoint the Most Holy
Again, Jesus was anointed at His baptism in Mark 1. He is the Most Holy

Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

Jesus is not a place, he is God.

קדשׁ
qôdesh
ko'-desh
From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

The only "anointing" that Christ refers to are here.

Mat_6:17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
Mar_14:8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
Luk_7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

The 70 weeks ran consecutive, are complete, and lie behind us.

So when did Christ return and make an end of sin? Why is there sin in the world still??

Where is the everlasting righteousness?? Gays still getting married, women still aborting children..

Is this your sick idea of "everlasting" righteousness?

Christ removed the penalty for sin, no doubt there, but he didn't remove sin.

People sin everyday.

 

[Shocker]

Unless there is no Law:

Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 1 Cor 15:56

As we are not Under the Law but under Grace (Romans 6:15) sin has no strength and is not imputed against us.

Sin is dead, powerless to keep anyone from Salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

That's fine, if you are a believer..

There are more unbelievers than believers..

But you knew that..

 

[Shocker]

Ok Shocker. Let's take these one at a time because Daniel is laying out what happens in the 70 weeks of years.

This is the portion of Daniel 9:24 I'll address:
24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression,...

Let's first understand that this prophecy is about the Jews. Gabriel says to Daniel that the 70 weeks are dcreed for HIS PEOPLE. Daniel's people are the Jews and this prophecy concerns them.

When it speaks to finish "THE TRANSGRESSION"...the transgression is an act! This act was truly committed when the Lord was crucified!

The Lord confirms as much on the cross when He said "IT IS FINISHED"! What Jesus was referring to is "THE TRANSGRESSION" of Daniel 9:24!

That is what this portion is speaking of...it is the transgression of crucifying and rejecting the Lord Jesus.

So the Jews have everlasting righteousness and no longer sin according to you right??

Can I get you on record with that?

 

[Shocker]

Psa_119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

[parousia70]

That's fine, if you are a believer..

There are more unbelievers than believers..

So you are saying that one day unbelievers will also share in Christ's victory over Sin?

 

[ebedmelech]

So the Jews have everlasting righteousness and no longer sin according to you right??

Can I get you on record with that?

No. You have to think about the point of "it is finished"...what was finished is transgression which by God's plan made Jesus the sacrifice for sin.

What you're not understanding is...this is God's plan for those who will receive Christ and therefore have everlasting righteousness.

Just as the only reason people will go to hell is because the didn't receive Christ who paid their sin debt.

Receive Christ and it is NOT your righteousness, but His!!! Just as Paul said in Philippians 3:7-9.

Look up the name "Jehovah Tskendu"...that's Jesus!

Everlasting righteousness is found IN Christ...that is what Daniel 9:24 is speakng of.

 

[parousia70]

You try.. Ill give you that..

"There is no try, there is only do." ~ Yoda

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Nope, the Jews still sin to this day, just like you and everyone else, everyone falls short of the Glory of God.

Since AD70, following the Law, or even attempting to, is impossible. Without the Law to follow, sin is not imputed, and we have returned to the reality between the fall of Adam and the giving of the Law - namely a reality where sin is in the world, but not imputed.

The only difference is that, unlike before the law, we today have the grace of Christ freely available.

Today we are either "In Adam" and already condemned whether we sin or not, OR we are IN CHRIST, and Saved by grace through faith even though we sin.

Sin and The Law have nothing to do with it.

To those who accept Christ Jesus, our Lord.

Unless you are claiming to be sin free???

No i am most certainly not. See above.
I'm a saved sinner, and today one is either ALIVE by grace through faith in Christ Jesus even though they sin, or Dead in Adam whether they sin or not.

Sin is no longer the measuring stick used by God to determine who is worthy and who is not.

But you knew that, right?

oh ye of little faith

My faith is overflowing!! - but I'd better be careful testifying to that truth... lest I be be accused of boasting.....

Use scripture when you are making a point..

Sure thang.
Matthew 3:14-16

The only "anointing" that Christ refers to are here.

Mat_6:17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
Mar_14:8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
Luk_7:46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

And the anointing OF Christ is also referred to here:

1. Mark 16:1 [ He Is Risen ] Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him.
2. Luke 7:38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.
3. John 11:2 It was that Mary who anointed the Lord with fragrant oil and wiped His feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.
4. John 12:3 Then Mary took a pound of very costly oil of spikenard, anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil.
5. Acts 4:27 “For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together
6. Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

Jesus Christ, the MOST HOLY, was indeed anointed in Fulfillment of Dan 9.

So when did Christ return and make an end of sin?

He made an end of Sin on the Cross.

Why is there sin in the world still??

Sin will exist forever... even in your paradigm, if the Devil, beast and false prophet are the only ones that suffer eternal conscious punishment, they will spend eternity suffering IN THEIR SIN, in the lake of fire, which is ON THE NEW EARTH.

Sin's eternal existence in no way negates Christ and the saints total and complete victory over it, and since the unelect will NEVER share in Christ and the saints victory over sin, Christ's victory over sin is total and complete.

Where is the everlasting righteousness??

In the Kingdom of God, which you and I are full citizens of today and evermore, the everlasting righteousness resides in peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17)

Is this your sick idea of "everlasting" righteousness?

Righteousness in Peace and Joy in the Holy spirit is sick to you?

Christ removed the penalty for sin, no doubt there,

If there is no penalty for sin, what power do you say it has? It can no longer be inputed against you, or anyone, ever. (Even those Gays you seem to be so afraid of Vrba)

but he didn't remove sin.

Again, that would require the unelect be equal partakers in Christs victory.
NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

 

[Shocker]

Ebed, Parousia..

Given your vehement adamancy that your "human interpretation" bares any resemblance to what the Bible actually sais, I will have to officially cut off conversation..

Parousia, you will no doubt say "that's because you cant answer the awesome glory of my thundering prophetic intellect".

But lets be honest...

Neither of you have any clout on this forum and I can see im the last idiot willing to engage you but that ends from now on.

Your version of what the Bible says makes me not want to be a Christian.


Now, reply with a final word, and again, we wont be communicating from this point on..


Your doctrine is objectively dangerous.

Good evening..

 

[ebedmelech]

Ebed, Parousia..

Given your vehement adamancy that your "human interpretation" bares any resemblance to what the Bible actually sais, I will have to officially cut off conversation..

Vehement?? My post in response was was hardly that. What I sense more than anything is the fact that I pointed you to scripture that supports exactly what I said.

Whether you can grasp it is the point.

But lets be honest...

Neither of you have any clout on this forum and I can see im the last idiot willing to engage you but that ends from now on.

Never do I look for clout in this forum! I'm here because I want to understand what God has to say when it comes to eschatology and in exchange, I'm driven back to God's word.

Your version of what the Bible says makes me not want to be a Christian.

You really have no clue of what I believe the bible says in other matters of the faith. This forum is eschatology...and even in those that share like views of eschatology they have differences, so please don't try to say what my "version" of the bible is...you DON'T know.

Now, reply with a final word, and again, we wont be communicating from this point on..

Your doctrine is objectively dangerous.

Good evening..

I never knew eschatology was doctrine....last I knew it was the study of the last things.

Nonetheless, if you have no desire to communicate with me, that too is fine.

 

[Shocker]

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[ebedmelech]

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

That's right! The passage is saying the apostles and prophets didn't write what they wanted, but what the Holy Spirit moved them to write.

Therefore, what is written is what God wanted written...which means we believers have to study what is written to come to an understanding. We do that by being taught in fellowship, as well as studying privately, but in no way is the passage saying your view is the correct one.

 

[Shocker]

That's right! The passage is saying the apostles and prophets didn't write what they wanted, but what the Holy Spirit moved them to write.

Therefore, what is written is what God wanted written...which means we believers have to study what is written to come to an understanding. We do that by being taught in fellowship, as well as studying privately, but in no way is the passage saying your view is the correct one.

The correct understanding is that the prophecy given in the Bible is not discernable in two ways. Its not mistakable.

If you propose a contrary interpretation to another, one of you is wrong, if not both.

The rest of what you said is a given..