Daniel 9:24-25 Seventy Weeks, A Future Literal 490 Day Period

[A71]

Sozo just means saved from death.

Unless you know differently from the Septuagint

All of those sold into slavery after the siege of Jerusalem were not saved by becoming a part of the New Covenant Church, and having their soul "saved".

God saved the children of Israel from the army of Egypt, at the Red Sea.
However, many of those same people were swallowed by the earth during Korah's rebellion against Moses.
Those people swallowed by the earth went to hell.

The passage above is related to Romans 9:6, and Romans 9:8.

It is speaking of being "saved" eternally.

The "time of the judgment of the dead" found in Revelation 11:18, is when the Lord will execute His "sentence" on the earth.

.

 

[A71]

Maybe. But I am seeing the destruction of Jerusalem (Sodom) and Judea (Gomorrah).

“If the Lord of hosts had not left survivors to us,
we would have fared like Sodom
and been made like Gomorrah.”

God could have destroyed all unbelieving Israel, like Sodom and Gomorrah, but he kept a remnant, survivors.
Maybe I am being too simplistic

Hmm...interesting observation that hadn't occurred to me. Let me investigate that.

I would agree that what Isaiah records relates to a temporal event i.e. the Assyrian exile. Yet the context of the verses surrounding Romans 9:27 sounds more spiritual to me i.e. the inclusion of the Gentiles and their attainment of righteousness, the stumbling of Israel. Then in Romans 10, the chapter begins immediately with Paul's desire and prayer for Israel's salvation, a reference to the unsaved outside of the saved remnant, a spiritual context consistent with the end of chapter 9.

I also don't perceive futurization; Paul appears to be describing the prevailing situation.

So this appears, to me, to be the spiritualization of Isaiah's temporal event.

Just my take on it. But I found yours intriguing, and as an historicist, worthy of consideration as well.

 

[A71]

When Isaiah refers to this, he is referring to besieged Jerusalem too for the survivors.

Isaiah 1
8And daughter Zion is left
like a booth in a vineyard,
like a shelter in a cucumber field,
like a besieged city.
9 If the Lord of hosts
had not left us a few survivors,
we would have been like Sodom,
and become like Gomorrah.

 

[claninja]

Maybe. But I am seeing the destruction of Jerusalem (Sodom) and Judea (Gomorrah).

“If the Lord of hosts had not left survivors to us,
we would have fared like Sodom
and been made like Gomorrah.”

God could have destroyed all unbelieving Israel, like Sodom and Gomorrah, but he kept a remnant, survivors.
Maybe I am being too simplistic

I agree.

I believe that in Romans 9-11, Paul is addressing concerns that some Jewish believers had, mainly that
God’s promises had failed, as so many Jews rejected Jesus:

For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.
Romans 9:3

But Paul’s main argument in Romans 9-11 is that no, Gods promises did not fail Israel because not all Israel is true Israel, but only those of natural Israel elected according to grace are Israel:

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
Romans 9:6,22-23

God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
Romans 11:2,5

Therefore when God saved the remnant of natural Israel, elected according to grace, he was saving all of natural Israel, because only the remnant was true natural Israel:

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Romans 11:26

Paul knows destruction on Israel is coming upon his generation, Hence he quoted Isaiah in Romans 9:27. Why would he think destruction is coming? Because of the olivet discourse.

 

[A71]

Ya. Just going out, but the Hebrew in Isaiah 1 is 'sariyd', which means a survivor of a great destruction.

These verses are not easy, but Paul seems to me, (I think...), to be talking prophetically about those who will survive Jerusalem.

The jealousy of the Jews in Romans 11, (and their ultimate in-gathering), only makes sense if the Jews exist post AD73, hence the remnant, the survivors, the seed of the tribe.

 

[BABerean2]

Sozo just means saved from death.

Unless you know differently from the Septuagint

Which death?

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

.

 

[jgr]

Ya. Just going out, but the Hebrew in Isaiah 1 is 'sariyd', which means a survivor of a great destruction.

These verses are not easy, but Paul seems to me, (I think...), to be talking prophetically about those who will survive Jerusalem.

The jealousy of the Jews in Romans 11, (and their ultimate in-gathering), only makes sense if the Jews exist post AD73, hence the remnant, the survivors, the seed of the tribe.

Most of the NT occurrences where the Greek word is translated "saved" refer to salvation from sin. This is true of the other two references in Romans.

Romans 9:27 Interlinear: And Isaiah doth cry concerning Israel, 'If the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, the remnant shall be saved;

Greek Concordance: σωθήσεται (sōthēsetai) -- 13 Occurrences

Mark 16:16; John 10:9; Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13; Romans 11:26; 1 Corinthians 3:15; 1 Timothy 2:15

 

[A71]

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved G4982 from wrath through him.

Most of the saving I see in Romans is saving from wrath, i.e. Physical destruction.

 

[BABerean2]

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved G4982 from wrath through him.

Most of the saving I see in Romans is saving from wrath, i.e. Physical destruction.

Saving of the soul...

Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom_8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Rom_9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom_10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom_11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

.

 

[jgr]

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved G4982 from wrath through him.

Most of the saving I see in Romans is saving from wrath, i.e. Physical destruction.

A different variant -- sōthēsometha vs. sōthēsetai .

 

[A71]

I am not versed in Greek JGR, so I don't understand the finer points.

The primary meaning of sozo is 'saved from physical destruction', and it is used in this context in the Bible. Whether it is the predominant usage or not, I've no idea.

E.G.
Mat 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jesus using it in the same way as Paul in Romans 5.

Erm, that's it really. I don't know...

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[A71]

Jeremiah is saying that today, this day, is the 23rd year of Josiah.
(which apparently would be 618BC)

He says that same year is the first year of King Nebuchadnezzar.
He also says it is Josiah's 4th year meaning he is a child, and would become King at a very young age, e.g. 11


It is clear I think

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[A71]

There is an underlying complexity. Look:

Jeremiah 25 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah, in the fourth year of King Jehoiakim son of Josiah of Judah (that was the first year of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon),

So Jehoiakim YR4 = Neb YR1


So YR3 Jehoaikim = Neb not King

Now go back to Daniel.
1 In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.

Clearly something has to give here.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm