Daniel 9:24-25 Seventy Weeks, A Future Literal 490 Day Period

[Truth7t7]

What's being poured upon the desolate at the consummation?

"He shall make it desolate, even unto the consummation"

"Consummation" = End Of The World

The Antichrist of Daniel is gonna be in the desolation right up to the end of the world, when the cup of Gods indignation and wrath is poured upon the desolate Revelation 14:10

Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

According to this logic, Christ won’t appear until the end of the world to die on the cross:


for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the consummation of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 9:26

 

[jgr]

As I have shown you the ECF Hippolytus and his teaching, several times just a few days back.

Consummation is end of the world.

What other church fathers shared Hippolytus' views?

His view does not supersede the Hebrew definition.

 

[claninja]

What's being poured upon the desolate at the consummation?

"He shall make it desolate, even unto the consummation"

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 23:38

It says it is made desolate even until the consummation, meaning it’s already desolate before the consummation.

So what are your thoughts on the ‘consummation off the ages’ in Hebrews 9:26

 

[Truth7t7]

What's being poured upon the desolate at the consummation?

"He shall make it desolate, even unto the consummation"

"Consummation" = End Of The World

The Antichrist of Daniel is gonna be in the desolation right up to the end of the world, when the cup of Gods indignation and wrath is poured upon the desolate Revelation 14:10

Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 23:38

It says it is made desolate even until the consummation, meaning it’s already desolate before the consummation.

So what are your thoughts on the ‘consummation off the ages’ in Hebrews 9:26

 

[claninja]

What's being poured upon the desolate at the consummation?

He shall make it desolate because of the overspreading of abominations. It shall be desolate even until the consummation.

‘That determined’ shall be poure upon the desolate.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[A71]

Yes, you are making my point for me. Thank you.
The rebellion was put down in AD67-73 by the Romans, after Paul was writing.

Romans 10:21 But concerning Israel he says,

“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

The severing of the rebellious branches spoken of in Romans 11 had not actually taken place when Paul was writing.

So we can see that the complete fulfilment of Daniel 9 occured 40 years after Christ's death and resurrection.

Well, Not all Israel was true Israel:

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

There was a remnant of Jews, AT THE TIME OF PAUL, who were elected according to grace:

Romans 11:5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

This remnant, who was true Israel, was saved

Romans 9:27
Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.




Actually, Yes, it did occur during Paul's generation. The Jews who were severed became Like Sodom and Gomorrah in 70 AD by the Romans.

Romans 9:29
It is just as Isaiah said previously: “Unless the Lord Almighty had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.”l

Matthew 23:35
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

But not to worry, God's promises to Israel did not fail because all Israel was saved by saving only the remnant, as only the remnant was true Israel.

 

[Truth7t7]

What other church fathers shareoHippolytus' views?

His view does not supersede the Hebrew definition.

Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202AD, Hippolytus 170-235, all taught of a literal human man as Daniels little horn/Antichrist, the great tribulation associated with this man and Daniels abomination of desolation. They taught Daniels antichrist was the same as Paul's in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-6

They taught that the "consummation" took place at the second advent when the Lord slay's the Antichrist with the sword of his mouth.

They all taught these events were future from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

They didn't see the 66-70AD destruction of Jerusalem by Rome as fulfillment of these events.

 

[Truth7t7]

He shall make it desolate because of the overspreading of abominationwhat's shall be desolate even until the consummation.

‘That determined’ shall be poure upon the desolate.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You didn't answer a thing, smiles.

What will be poured upon the desolate at the consummation?

I can read determined, whats being poured upon the desolate?

 

[BABerean2]

The severing of the rebellious branches spoken of in Romans 11 had not actually taken place when Paul was writing.

So we can see that the complete fulfilment of Daniel 9 occured 40 years after Christ's death and resurrection.

Paul used the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles.

In Romans 11:1-5 Paul said there was a "remnant" during his time, just as there was a remnant of 7,000 during the time of Elijah.

Therefore, the unbelieving branches had already been broken off when Paul wrote the Book of Romans.


Paul also made it clear that the unbelieving branches can be grafted back into the tree, through faith in Christ.
This is the "so", (manner) of their salvation in Romans 11:26.

.

 

[BABerean2]

What will be poured upon the desolate

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

.

 

[Truth7t7]

The scripture below clearly teaches what will be poured upon the desolate at the consummation, the indignation and wrath of God will.

Is the fourty two month "fulfilling" of the gentiles a future event, as Jerusalem will be trampled under foot as seen in Revelation 11:2, I believe so as the book of Revelation was written in 96AD, many years after a proclaimed 66-70AD fulfillment.

Revelation 14:9-12KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

.

 

[claninja]

The severing of the rebellious branches spoken of in Romans 11 had not actually taken place when Paul was writing.

I partially disagree, as there was definitely a severing that occurred during th time of Paul:

That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Romans 11:20

So we can see that the complete fulfilment of Daniel 9 occured 40 years after Christ's death and resurrection.

I agree, but was the prediction of the destruction of the Jerusalem by Rome in Daniel 9 within the confines of the 70 weeks?

 

[Truth7t7]

The scripture below shows the fulfilling of the gentiles as a future event as the book of Revelation was written in 96AD, some 30+ years after Rome's destruction in Jerusalem 66-70AD

The ECF'S Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD all taught of a future Antichrist of Daniel, abomination of desolation, great tribulation, and second advent from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

They didn' t see or teach the 66-70AD preterist fulfillment, "Luis De Alcasar" the Roman Catholic Jesuit wasn't born yet.

Revelation 11:2
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

I partially disagree, as there was definitely a severing that occurred during th time of Paul:

That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Romans 11:20




I agree, but was the prediction of the destruction of the Jerusalem by Rome in Daniel 9 within the confines of the 70 weeks?

 

[claninja]

You didn't answer a thing, smiles.

What will be poured upon the desolate at the consummation?

I can read determined, whats being poured upon the desolate?

I would assume judgement, as verse 27 doesn’t directly define what is poured out.

But if we are both in agreement, that verse 26 and 27 are Hebrew parallelism, then we can assume that the destruction of the city and sanctuary is what is meant by
‘That determined’ that is poured on the desolate.


We know that there were 6 things to be accomplished within the 70 ‘sevens’ prophecy and these were clearly fulfilled, as there are NT scriptures to back up the fulfillment of each of the 6 points:

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, 1. to finish the transgression, 2. and to make an end of sins, 3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity, 4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy, 6. and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel 9:24

We know that the fulfillment of these 6 points occurred at the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ based on the NT scriptures.

Now when we look at verses 25-27, we look for the time frame for when the 6 points were fulfilled. By doing this we look for the cross:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26

As the 6 points of 70 ‘sevens’ are fulfilled by the death, resurrection, and ascension, anything outside of this, like the prediction of the destruction of the city and sanctuary are not confined within the 70 weeks, as the destruction of The city and sanctuary are not required for the fulfillment of the 6 points.

What is interesting to note, is that the city and sanctuary are already desolate before their destruction:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (sacrifices no longer needed because of Christ, any further temple worship with sacrifices would be an abomination)and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27

This ties in very well with what Jesus stated in Matthew:

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 23:38

smiles

Why do you keep typing smiles?

 

[claninja]

Revelation was written in 96AD

This is not a fact, it is a theory, which is much debated between scholars.

 

[claninja]

The scripture below shows the fulfilling of the gentiles as a future event as the book of Revelation was written in 96AD, some 30+ years after Rome's destruction in Jerusalem 66-70AD

The ECF'S Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus 130-202AD, Hippolytus 170-235AD all taught of a future Antichrist of Daniel, abomination of desolation, great tribulation, and second advent from their 2nd and 3rd century lives.

They didn' t see or teach the 66-70AD preterist fulfillment, "Luis De Alcasar" the Roman Catholic Jesuit wasn't born yet.

Revelation 11:2
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

What is the the true Jerusalem that we come to now? Earthly or heavenly?

If you believe the earthly then I would understand your argument a little better, however:

The gentiles destroyed earthly Jerusalem (Babylon) and trampled earthly Jerusalem until it was destroyed again (Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome). Now the Jerusalem we come to is above and gentiles cannot trample it any longer

 

[Quasar92]

I've ratified them.

As a son of God, you've ratified them, whether or not you recognize and agree that you have.

The multitude of the redeemed through the ages up to this moment has ratified them, and others will continue to ratify them until Christ returns.

They are ratified in and by the society of the saints since Calvary.

You continue to labor under false pretenses ad miss the mrk of what the Prophecy in Dan.9:24 means.

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.

First of all, the prophecy is addressed to Daniel's people, Israel. Not to you, or to the Church. The condition predicted in that verse WILL NOT be fulfilled for Israel, until AFTER Jesus second coming, when they finally recognize Him as their Messiah and the free gift of the New Covenant, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.

Quasar92

 

[A71]

This is what Paul is referring to:
Jeremiah 11: 16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. 17 For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. 18 And the Lord hath given me knowledge of it, and I know it: then thou shewedst me their doings.

Referred to by Paul in Hebrews 12, (circa AD60):

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

And all knitted together in Daniel 9:27

shall make it desolate, even until the consummation

The consummation of course being the end of the judgement, in AD73.
I.E. the end of the fire of judgement, when everything has been consumed, as fire consumes everything. As per John 15:

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I partially disagree, as there was definitely a severing that occurred during th time of Paul:

That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Romans 11:20




I agree, but was the prediction of the destruction of the Jerusalem by Rome in Daniel 9 within the confines of the 70 weeks?

 

[claninja]

This is what Paul is referring to:
Jeremiah 11: 16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. 17 For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. 18 And the Lord hath given me knowledge of it, and I know it: then thou shewedst me their doings.

Referred to by Paul in Hebrews 12, (circa AD60):

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

And all knitted together in Daniel 9:27

shall make it desolate, even until the consummation

The consummation of course being the end of the judgement, in AD73.
I.E. the end of the fire of judgement, when everything has been consumed, as fire consumes everything. As per John 15:

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

I’m pretty sure I agree with most if not all of this

 

[claninja]

This is what Paul is referring to:
Jeremiah 11: 16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. 17 For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. 18 And the Lord hath given me knowledge of it, and I know it: then thou shewedst me their doings.

Referred to by Paul in Hebrews 12, (circa AD60):

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

And all knitted together in Daniel 9:27

shall make it desolate, even until the consummation

The consummation of course being the end of the judgement, in AD73.
I.E. the end of the fire of judgement, when everything has been consumed, as fire consumes everything. As per John 15:

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

My other question was, do you believe the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans is confined within the 70 ‘sevens’? In other words, are any of the 6 points not fulfilled in Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem is required to fulfill the 6 points in Daniel 9:24?


Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel 9:24