Daniel 2 and the second coming of Jesus.

masmpg

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In Daniel 2 we read about king Nebuchadnezzar having a dream. In the dream Daniel interpreted it as follows. The king dreamed about a statue with a head of gold, chest and arms of silver, belly and thighs of brass, the legs were of iron, and the feet part iron part clay. Daniel prayed that the Lord would show the king the interpretation of the dream, and here is what it meant. King Nebuchadnezzar was the head of gold and an inferior king will come after him. The inferior king, represented by the silver was media and persia according to Daniel chapter 5:31. The next inferior king, represented by the brass was alexander the great and the kingdom of greece. We read about this in chapter 8:20-21. The last kingdom represented by the iron must be proven by history because the book of Daniel did not explain it in those terms, but did in different terms in Daniel 7. History tells of the roman empire which was the iron fist of the world. The legs of iron represented rome and it's civil military power, but when we get to the feet clay is added to the iron, but will never cleave nor be mingle in any way. That is why these two are used. The clay represents the papacy when the emperor justinian removed the caesars and installed the pope on to the throne of the caesars because by that time the catholic church was becoming a force to be reckoned with and justinian saw a way to save rome by doing that. The roman empire became a church (represented by the clay) run state (represented by the civil government). then is when all hell broke lose and the church usurped God's authority and so began the long dark ages with its inquisitions and oppression. Church and state will never really exist this side of heaven. It will seem like the church and state will unite, but like the dark ages there was no substance to the church run state of the catholic church roman empire.

Then a stone is cut out of the mountain without hands and smites the image on the feet and turns it into powder. This is the second coming. There are no other kingdoms represented in this dream, and the stone, or rock cut out of the mountain without hands represents Jesus. A mountain in prophecy always represents the head of Gods people, or church. Mount zion, which there is no actual physical place called mount zion refers to God's true people throughout time.

Daniel 7 and revelation 13 tell the same story about the 4 kingdoms of the world by using beasts to describe each kingdom. There are no other kingdoms left that will be a world power. Too many people are waiting for some mysterious person to take over the world. The world already has been taken over by rome. Rome will be the final government of the world according to Daniel and revelation. There has always only been babylon, media-persia, greece and rome. All these are very well documented throughout God's word. And throughout history. Many historians and practically every denomination agree with this.
 

masmpg

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I wondered who would post such garbage.

Should have known it would be an SDA.

Haven't you got better things to do with your time than to read fairy tales?

You obviously do not read you bible. All that I wrote is in the bible, and in fact proven by most historians, even catholics.

Are you calling the bible a fairy tale? That is all I quoted above.
 
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Light of the East

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You obviously do not read you bible. All that I wrote is in the bible, and in fact proven by most historians, even catholics.

Are you calling the bible a fairy tale? That is all I quoted above.

What you posted is simply the SDA interpretation of that passage. If you look around, you will see that there are literally thousands of different (and conflicting) interpretations of the Sacred Scriptures. I'm simply saying that the particular interpretation you gave is bogus. It comes from Premillennialism and a deep-seated anti-Catholic hatred.

I know because I have been there and done that.
 
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John Hyperspace

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I would propose that perhaps the four kings/kingdoms are the four king/kingdoms actually in the book of Daniel. Is it coincidence that Daniel speaks of four successive kings/kingdoms beginning with Nebuchadnezzar and there just happen to be four successive kings/kingdoms beginning with Nebuchadnezzar in the book itself?
 
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masmpg

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I would propose that perhaps the four kings/kingdoms are the four king/kingdoms actually in the book of Daniel. Is it coincidence that Daniel speaks of four successive kings/kingdoms beginning with Nebuchadnezzar and there just happen to be four successive kings/kingdoms beginning with Nebuchadnezzar in the book itself?

Historically there is no mistaking what Daniel said about the king's dream of chapter 2. There were only four world kingdoms from babylon until now. There never was another kingdom considered to be a world kingdom since the pagan/papal roman empire. This is not just what the bible states. I share this dream and interpretation to show how simple it is to interpret bible prophecy, and also to show the veracity of scriptures. The dates are all exact that is why they always tell the times frame of a king or kings on important matters. babylon, media-persia, greece, and rome are all historic. There is no mistaking this fact. The book of Daniel defiines babylon, and media-persia very well because he was alive during those two. but the vision of greece is defined in chapter 8 as a vision of a goat and a ram. Rome is the only one that is not mentioned in Daniel, but can be carefully followed through chapter 7 and revelation 13.
 
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masmpg

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What you posted is simply the SDA interpretation of that passage. If you look around, you will see that there are literally thousands of different (and conflicting) interpretations of the Sacred Scriptures. I'm simply saying that the particular interpretation you gave is bogus. It comes from Premillennialism and a deep-seated anti-Catholic hatred.

I know because I have been there and done that.

Sorry but there is only one interpretation of Daniel chapter two. The book of Daniel interprets itself, like the bible clearly does for those who will study it. It is not SDA doctrine. I can supply hundreds of non SDA and even catholic sources to show this fact. I was raised a catholic and know a bit about them.
 
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John Hyperspace

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Historically there is no mistaking what Daniel said about the king's dream of chapter 2. There were only four world kingdoms from babylon until now.

I'm not into using extra-biblical things to interpret the Bible; it creates a scenario in which the Bible is incomplete, and needs the word of man to give it understanding; which I don't believe it is, or does. I only offer the proposition because it's true to fact that there are four successive kings/kingdoms in the book of the prophet itself. I believe the whole "let's interpret prohecy in the Bible with extra-biblical history outside of the Bible" to be a huge red-herring to keep understanding Biblical prophecy in obscurity.

But, as an aside, what defines an historical "world kingdom"? And why wasn't the British Empire a "world kingdom"?
 
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Light of the East

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Sorry but there is only one interpretation of Daniel chapter two. The book of Daniel interprets itself, like the bible clearly does for those who will study it. It is not SDA doctrine. I can supply hundreds of non SDA and even catholic sources to show this fact. I was raised a catholic and know a bit about them.

Just because you were raised Catholic doesn't mean you know or understand the Bible. For one thing, the Catholic Church admits that the last 200 years they have done an atrocious job of catechizing their people. This is why droves of them have been deceived and have left the faith once given by Christ to the Apostles for the salvation of mankind.

Secondly, if the Bible was really all that perspicuous, there wouldn't be hundreds of different doctrines out there from people all who claim that they are getting their doctrine from "the Bible alone," would there? No, the Bible is not all that clear, and prophecies like the one you are thumping about are particularly hard to understand, especially removed thousands of years from their original understanding.

Thirdly, the Catholic Church has never taught the Premillennialism which you are pushing through this interpretation of Daniel.

And while we are at it, how do you know that this was not all fulfilled in the first century? Matthew 24 gives us a timeline for the events that take place with the destruction of the Temple, and it is within that generation. Most people who are pushing the interpretation you are giving of Daniel also claim that it ties in with Matthew 24 and some fatuous nonsense about a "Rapture of the Church," taken from 1 Corinthinans 15 and II Thessalonians 4.

In short....it is your interpretation. And I reject it as utterly wrong because I once believed in it myself.
 
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masmpg

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I do not understand what you are talking about. I only wrote word for word what the bible states and you say I am wrong? All you have done is tell my your opinion of why you think I am wrong. You have not shown me anything from the bible to prove your rant.

All I did was share the kings dream of daniel two and showed from the book of daniel who the next two kings were, and from history who the other kingdom was.

I don't believe you even read my post. What do you even mean by premillenialism???

The ONLY reason there are so many denominations and doctrinal perversions is because of the simple fact that people do not read and understand the bible. They rely on their pastor priest or denomination when they are forgetting that we will all appear before the judgment seat alone, that is why we are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God. We are not told to study church doctrine and traditions of men but the bible. If everybody who claims the Name of Jesus prayed studied and understood John 14-17 as revealed by the Comforter there would be on denomination and one translation of the bible.

I don't want to argue but if you keep telling me how wrong I am please provide bible proof.
 
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masmpg

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But, as an aside, what defines an historical "world kingdom"? And why wasn't the British Empire a "world kingdom"?

The book of Daniel defines what a world empire is in the kings dream of chapter two. History ratifies the facts of Daniel two. I am not using history to prove anything. I am using the bible to prove history!
 
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John Hyperspace

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The book of Daniel defines what a world empire is in the kings dream of chapter two.

Then what is the definition?

History ratifies the facts of Daniel two. I am not using history to prove anything. I am using the bible to prove history!

Apparently you're using history to ratify the facts of Daniel 2 by your own admission. Are the extra-biblical historic accounts of men necessary to understand biblical prophecy? If not, why are we bringing them into the discussion at all? Why not simply stick to the self-contained scripture where we can be sure we are being given the understanding we need?
 
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masmpg

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Then what is the definition?

Have you read and understood Daniel 2? The image was comprised of the head of Gold which Daniel says represents babylon Daniel 2:38. The chest and arms of silver which represented medo-persia Daniel 5:30&31. The belly and thighs represented alexander the great and Greece, Daniel 8:20&21. These proves history. There is no mistaking what this prophecy of the kings dream represents. History completes the statue because Daniel was not alive to see Rome come into power. If you want to remove history from the bible then you are without any compass or guide at all. History shows that Rome was the last world kingdom, then Europe formed into ten nations. BUT the last thing to happen in the kings dream was a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and smote the image and broke it into pieces and God's kingdom was set up Daniel 2:44&45. This is the end, whether you see it that way or not is up to you, but this is what the bible states not me. Please stop accusing me of things you don't even know or study!
 
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John Hyperspace

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Have you read and understood Daniel 2?

Yes.

If you want to remove history from the bible then you are without any compass or guide at all.

You're saying here that we need the words of men to understand the scripture; that the Word of God alone isn't enough. I reject that idea. For me, it is the scripture and the scripture alone; I reject all teachings of men as fallible and useless in determination of truth; let alone in determination of the very God-breathed scripture.

History shows that Rome was the last world kingdom

Again, why are you not conisdering the British Empire a "world kingdom" since it had a king, and ruled more of the world than Rome ever did.

This is the end, whether you see it that way or not is up to you, but this is what the bible states not me.

I didn't say it wasn't. I am confident we are experiencing the end of the age.

Please stop accusing me of things you don't even know or study!

Why do you think I am "accusing you of things"? You mean, by asking questions? Why are you making posts?

Also, I know the scripture pretty well, and have studied it for a long time. I disagree with your interpretation of the terrible image, and, reject the notion of mixing the words of men with the Word of God. This would mean that God requires us to trust the words of men (whom He says, I cannot trust) in order to understand scripture. This would give more glory to the words of men that to the scripture since, which has the greater glory; the words that are written; or the words that give understanding of that which is written?
 
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masmpg

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By rejecting my "interpretation" which is not "my" interpretation you are rejecting the bible interpretation. You are either not reading what I wrote, which is only what the bible states because I use verses to prove, and say the same exact thing I have stated. Read my last post and there is no way it can be misinterpreted. Read the actual references I use from the book of Daniel, which explains what the image is very well. I do not trust the words of men.

So tell me what does the bible say about Daniel two if my "interpretation", which is word for word from the book of Daniel, is wrong?

The bible is loaded with history, and there is much history that is factual, and there is much that is confused by certain organizations to take the spotlight off the truth. It is easy to determine which history is fact by the bible, but if you want to remove history then the bible becomes meaningless.The bible is one long history book.
 
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ver 2-10

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I do not understand what you are talking about. I only wrote word for word what the bible states and you say I am wrong?
I don't understand the purpose of copying the bible with out making a point to the quote, most of use already know this.

Besides you speak of 2nd coming, well least I have tried to go down to Jerusalem in 2 yellow garments as it is written, but no one cared so I went home again.
 
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