Dancing the Night Away, With a Higher Purpose

[TexasSky]

KatAutumn,

I am not fond of kids being promised, going steady or getting engaged so young either, but I don't think that the promise bit was connected to this thing at all.

Unless you count a father's worry that feeling she is taken will make the girl more likely to be seduced. lol

 

[TexasSky]

I am thinking many people on this thread had very different fathers than my father, or the fathers my friends had.

My father died when I was 15.
Before he died, he would have long talks with me that DID keep me a virgin until I married, NOT because "I feared Daddy," but because Daddy gave me the courage to NOT give in when boys said "If you love me you will," or "all the other girls are," or "what's wrong with you?" Or "are you some kind of prude or something?"

Daddy would tell me, "You are a very beautiful woman. You are the kind of girl that boys are going to want to sleep with, and want to be with. And they will say and do anything in the world to convince you that you are less a woman if you don't give them sex. I want you to remember, I will love you, no matter what, but you deserve better than the back seat of a car, or some fly by night motel, or being another notch on a quarter-back's belt. You deserve to be respected. If you do not feel ready for sex, you don't deserve to be pressured into it. That is YOUR body. No one should guilt you, blackmail you, or steal that part of you from you. You deserve to be able to GIVE yourself to a person worthy of you, and frankly, if he isn't willing to make some kind of committment to you, he is NOT worthy of that gift. He may say "I love you," but love is a lot more than feeling you up behind a building, or sneaking around in the dark for a quick sexual encounter so you don't get caught. Love should always be something you can be proud of."

THAT kept me a virgin.
And THAT is really what this program is about.

Empowering girls with the knowledge that real men know they are beautiful and desireable women, but also empowering them to say no when they want to say no.

This nonsense of "you're only free if you say yes," is the worst lie society ever told a girl.

 

[katautumn]

That isn't what it means. The boy gave the girl a promise ring. That's not a commitment, that's teen dating. Give me a break, like you never dated?

Since when was a promise not a commitment?

According to Webster's Thesaurus:

Synonyms: oath, pledge, troth, vow, word
Related Words: appointment, arrangement, commitment, engagement; compact, contract, covenant; assurance, guarantee, guaranty; bail, bond, deposit, gage, pawn, security, token, warranty

I emphasized the applicable words in bold text. And yes, I did date and I got engaged at seventeen. It was stupid and I was divorced by the age of twenty.

 

[IisJustMe]

Since when was a promise not a commitment?

You haven't been a teenager lately, or raised one or two, have you?

They exchange class rings, pins, and "promise rings" like candy. On the flip side, there is the concept of courting, which is not dating, and is on the rise in Christian circles. If this couple is actually that mature, and not doing the "change-'steadies'-when-I-change-my-socks" routine, it's entirely possible they've known each other for a long time, and have grown to love one another but are also knowledgeable enough about their circumstances that they aren't ready to marry, nor would they engage in pre-marital sexual contact because of their faith. So they commit to one another, confident they have "found each other" early in life.

But in the long run, yeah, they're probably too young. I say "probably" for the above reasons.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

This is, IMO, a stupid, disturbing, sexist and ultimately counter-productive event which is part of a stupid, disturbing, sexist and ultimately counter-productive trend.

 

[Sojourner1]

My husband took our daughter on a trip to Canada for a week when she turned 13. They spent three days on an ocean kayaking trip and did a lot of talking about life and becoming a young woman. They had a great time. She would never want to go to a purity ball...it just isn't something she would enjoy doing. That special time with just her Dad was a wonderful experience for both of them though.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

My husband took our daughter on a trip to Canada for a week when she turned 13. They spent three days on an ocean kayaking trip and did a lot of talking about life and becoming a young woman. They had a great time. She would never want to go to a purity ball...it just isn't something she would enjoy doing. That special time with just her Dad was a wonderful experience for both of them though.

Now that's healthy. What the op describes is not.

 

[loribee59]

I am thinking many people on this thread had very different fathers than my father, or the fathers my friends had.

My father died when I was 15.
Before he died, he would have long talks with me that DID keep me a virgin until I married, NOT because "I feared Daddy," but because Daddy gave me the courage to NOT give in when boys said "If you love me you will," or "all the other girls are," or "what's wrong with you?" Or "are you some kind of prude or something?"

Daddy would tell me, "You are a very beautiful woman. You are the kind of girl that boys are going to want to sleep with, and want to be with. And they will say and do anything in the world to convince you that you are less a woman if you don't give them sex. I want you to remember, I will love you, no matter what, but you deserve better than the back seat of a car, or some fly by night motel, or being another notch on a quarter-back's belt. You deserve to be respected. If you do not feel ready for sex, you don't deserve to be pressured into it. That is YOUR body. No one should guilt you, blackmail you, or steal that part of you from you. You deserve to be able to GIVE yourself to a person worthy of you, and frankly, if he isn't willing to make some kind of commitment to you, he is NOT worthy of that gift. He may say "I love you," but love is a lot more than feeling you up behind a building, or sneaking around in the dark for a quick sexual encounter so you don't get caught. Love should always be something you can be proud of."

THAT kept me a virgin.
And THAT is really what this program is about.

Empowering girls with the knowledge that real men know they are beautiful and desirable women, but also empowering them to say no when they want to say no.

This nonsense of "you're only free if you say yes," is the worst lie society ever told a girl.

My husband took our daughter on a trip to Canada for a week when she turned 13. They spent three days on an ocean kayaking trip and did a lot of talking about life and becoming a young woman. They had a great time. She would never want to go to a purity ball...it just isn't something she would enjoy doing. That special time with just her Dad was a wonderful experience for both of them though.

you two are SO lucky to have wise, healthy fathers!

just spending QUALITY time with their daughters IMO, is considered very healthy and empowering for a girl to look back on and draw on her memories and experiences with her father rather than being paraded around as an object of male pride and ego: "look at ME! look at how good a daddy I am!" Please!

Interesting that I posted about this issue a long time ago here, prolly about 2-3 years ago, and I'm surprised that it's still making that round of debate once again.

I highly recommend this book as it speaks about relationships between a parent and child and how a dysfunctional relationship can spur a child to seek dysfunctional relationship outside the family.

Product Description
Brian spent a lifetime seeking his father's approval. His father wantedhim to be the best and the brightest, and Brian tried - desperately! When
his father lay dying, Brian rushed to his bedside to plead one last time,
"Please say you love me, please!"
We all have a powerful need to know that someone in this world loves us
and accepts us unconditionally. We especially crave our parents' blessing,
and without it, we may become angry and driven, or detached and empty. We
may also feel this hurtful lack between brothers and sisters, husbands
and wives, or even within our religious congregation.
Now family counselors Gary Smalley and John Trent, Ph.D., show us how we
can transform our lives - even when it is no longer possible to receive our
parents' blessing. They reveal the five key elements of the blessing,
describe the most common home situations where a blessing has been denied
(one of them may be ours), and offer practical, effective methods to heal
broken hearts and families. Most important, they explain how we can be
a blessing, and pass on that life-changing gift to our love ones.

 

[DeathMagus]

TexasSky, Sojourner - it is my hope that I can be as good a father to my daughter(s) one day as your father/husband seem to be.

 

[TexasSky]

TexasSky, Sojourner - it is my hope that I can be as good a father to my daughter(s) one day as your father/husband seem to be.

Love her, and let her know you love her.

My father had no idea he would not be around for the rest of my life, but he did know life is full of the unexpected, so he spent a lot of time just letting me know he loved me, and my sister, and he was proud of us. So, when God took him home so unexpectedly, my sister and I didn't have that need to seek out a man's approval. We knew we had it and always would.

My daughter's father is not good at that, and even though my daughter married a very amazing Christian man, I still get sobbing phone calls asking me why her Daddy doesn't love her. I'll call him, TELL him, "She thinks you don't love her, please call her." He says, "Of course I love her! She should know that!" But he doesn't call her, and so, she goes on thinking, "he doesn't love me."

Father's, you can NEVER say it enough.

 

[IisJustMe]

This is, IMO, a stupid, disturbing, sexist and ultimately counter-productive event which is part of a stupid, disturbing, sexist and ultimately counter-productive trend.

By all means, let's all promote pre-marital sex and extramarital affairs for everyone. Oh, brother! [/sarcasm]

 

[DeathMagus]

By all means, let's all promote pre-marital sex and extramarital affairs for everyone. Oh, brother! [/sarcasm]

Here's a question, though - isn't it more for the parents? If little Sally doesn't want to have sex...she won't. Isn't this more about reaffirming to the parents that little Sally won't have sex until Daddy gives her away? Especially that whole "sign a contract" bit (even though it's not legal). Basically...the way I see it playing out 4/5 times is that if a young lady were to change her mind later in life, but before she moved out, and the parents find out, the entire night of reaffirming and promise-making would be used to construct one massive guilt trip. And that situation is not healthy, regardless of your views on pre-marital sex. Her parents will feel lied to, and the girl will feel controlled and manipulated.

Granted, this is only possible if the girl decides to have sex anyway, and these balls are supposed to reduce that. But enough girls decide to have sex anyway that I think it's a concern.

I think there are much better ways to promote chastity (if that's your thing) than having the kids sign a contract with their father when some of them might only be doing it to make their parents happy.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

This sort of thing really makes me think that the majority of the Religious Right are just perverts and nymphomaniacs who need a way of covering up the fact that they're obsessed with sex. That level of forcedly addressing your teenager's sex life is not healthy or normal.

 

[loribee59]

This sort of thing really makes me think that the majority of the Religious Right are just perverts and nymphomaniacs who need a way of covering up the fact that they're obsessed with sex. That level of forcedly addressing your teenager's sex life is not healthy or normal.

wow...when you put it that way, you've pretty much nailed it.

Fathers parading their little girls in a public event isn't about their little girls' sexuality...it's about THEIR sexuality. (insert sarcasm) And sadly, it does NOT empower anyone, much less their daughters.

I *LOVE* what TexasSky's & Sojourner's fathers have done for them, that they do this out of love and it's done on a one to one father-daughter talk that's so rarely precious with their time alone together. Now THAT'S healthy, empowering, and with their fathers' love and blessing they found wonderful husbands and had healthy relationship with their husbands.

 

[Washington]

This sort of thing really makes me think that the majority of the Religious Right are just perverts and nymphomaniacs who need a way of covering up the fact that they're obsessed with sex. That level of forcedly addressing your teenager's sex life is not healthy or normal.

It is certainly an uncommon focus on one's daughter's sexual activities. "I'm sooo interested in what you do sexually my dear, that I would like you to go to a ball with me so you can affirm your future sexual behavior to me and the world."

I don't know about being obsessed with sex, but these fathers appear to delight in being passive participants of sorts in part of their daughters' sexual life. An entire evening of one-on-one emotional and physical contact (dancing) seems like a whole lot of unnecessary and unnatural overkill in order to accomplish what a quite talk at home would do.

Not that all or even most of these fathers have less than wholesome intentions, but I suspect there may a subconscious, less the wholesome, impetus behind it.

But you do have a point about the Religious Right being uncommonly interested in sex. You don't see the other end of the religious spectrum, or even the middle, going on and on about the sexual behavior of others; issuing does and don'ts and publicly passing judgment on those they disagree with. It's almost as if they do this as an aid to help keep themselves in line.

 

[katautumn]

By all means, let's all promote pre-marital sex and extramarital affairs for everyone. Oh, brother! [/sarcasm]

That's not the issue at hand. For starters, it's incredibly creepy for a father to make a vow to his daughter that he will not view inappropriate contentography, touch or cheat on his wife. That is a vow he should make to his wife, not something he should promise to his child. My father's sex life is none of my business, nor would I feel comfortable with my father professing his love for me by vowing to abstain from masturbation or inappropriate contentography.

Second, the reason why people believe it is sexist is because it is a practice that forces the daughter at an age where she is becoming self-aware to give her body, her sexuality over to her father where he will, in turn, contract it over to her husband on her wedding day. Her body, her sexuality is deemed off-limits to her. It will belong to two men in her life - her father and her husband. And the male counterpart to these Purity Balls asks young men to vow to not "cheapen" another man's "treasure" (with emphasis placed on that "treasure" [implying a young woman's virginity] belonging to her father and future husband). Nothing about how the young man's body belongs to his parents. Nothing about how his sexuality isn't his, but his parents' or future wife's. No, it's about not causing some "daddy's angel" to become damaged goods.

Granted, I understand that no father wants to think about their daughters having sex. That's understandable, much in the same way most of us don't want to think about our parents having sex. The problem is that a father should never ask his daughter to pledge her sexuality to him. That is sick and disturbing on so many levels. It's one thing to tell your daughter that you would prefer that she abstains until marriage and give her reasons why. It's quite another to ask her to dedicate her sexuality as a young woman to her dad. A father should not have that much of an interest in his daughter's sex life or lack thereof. And the fact that these balls are like a mock wedding ceremony (with the nice gowns, feeding each other white frosted cakes and having a "first dance") is really creepy.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

I've personally never liked purity balls.

 

[katautumn]

I've personally never liked purity balls.

Agreed. I actually asked my dad about what he thought about these purity balls and his response was an open mouth and a raised eyebrow. Even my dad - the ordained Southern Baptist deacon - thought the concept was creepy.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

By all means, let's all promote pre-marital sex and extramarital affairs for everyone. Oh, brother! [/sarcasm]

That's just a useless response, since nobody is suggesting such a thing. Is that really the best you have to offer?

 

[loribee59]

That's not the issue at hand. For starters, it's incredibly creepy for a father to make a vow to his daughter that he will not view inappropriate contentography, touch or cheat on his wife. That is a vow he should make to his wife, not something he should promise to his child. My father's sex life is none of my business, nor would I feel comfortable with my father professing his love for me by vowing to abstain from masturbation or inappropriate contentography.

{snip}

Granted, I understand that no father wants to think about their daughters having sex. That's understandable, much in the same way most of us don't want to think about our parents having sex. The problem is that a father should never ask his daughter to pledge her sexuality to him. That is sick and disturbing on so many levels. It's one thing to tell your daughter that you would prefer that she abstains until marriage and give her reasons why. It's quite another to ask her to dedicate her sexuality as a young woman to her dad. A father should not have that much of an interest in his daughter's sex life or lack thereof. And the fact that these balls are like a mock wedding ceremony (with the nice gowns, feeding each other white frosted cakes and having a "first dance") is really creepy.

couldn't have said it better...

there's something just soooo wrong with this picture....a public mock wedding that's not pledged to a wife but to a daughter.