Dake's Racist?

[victoryword]

As an African American I can say this: I happen to enjoy many of the teachings in Dake's books. I stand by Fred Price's criticism of Dake and others who made racists statements, but Price has not turned away from what the Bible plainly teaches on the subject of faith and neither will I.

As Songbird88 pointed out, Martin Luther was quite anti-semitic. Some of his writings were even used by Hitler to justify his heinous actions toward the Jews. Should I reject all that Luther taught because of this flaw?

Charles Parham influence William Seymour and the Pentecostal Revival began in the early 20th century. Parham would not even let Seymour into the classroom full of white students because Seymour was BLACK. Yet, Seymour was NOT going to let Parham's racism stop him from receiving the insights into God's Word that Parham was given. Notice though that God used SEYMOUR and not Parham to begin the Azusa Street revival. Also take not that Parham was a KKK sympathizer.

So while I am certainly bothered by the ridiculous statements made by Dake on some racial issues, I would be a fool to just toss away the good along with the bad. If that be the case then I must be fair and toss away all of my Pentecostal beliefs and all of my protestant beliefs.

That doesn't leave me with much, now does it?

 

[Blade]

Hi Blade, What year's version of Dake's do you have?

1988. I look at the notes at times. It's one of many bibles I have. But I like what victoryword said. Was Dake a Racist I never meet the man but I am not gona toss everthing because I don't agree with some of his interpretations of the word.

 

[queenm04]

Do you have any idea of how many people have bought and studied the Dake Bible from 1963-1998 (35 years)?. People who have these Bibles must be informed that these particular notes must be discarded.
In your letter you mentioned, "We wish to express our sincere regrets and apologies for any commentary in The Dake Annotated Reference Bible that has been interpreted as being supportive of slavery, racism or discrimination." To me this issue is not personal, however, I for one would be the first to say to you, apologies accepted! But, the fact of the matter still stands, the notes are already printed and have been circulating for the past 35 years. It has to be fixed! I see two ways by which this can possibly be done. First, when automobile manufacturers, Ford, General Motors etc. find a flaw in their product, they do a recall at their expense. In other words, they fix or replace the faulty part; are you willing to do that? Thirty-five years of printed material ...that's a lot of "parts". Secondly, someone has to point out the faulty parts, so people can avoid them. That is a part of my assignment with this series on "Race, Religion, and Racism"....

Thank you for writing and for your concern (it is my concern also) for the Body of Christ.

In the service of the King,

Frederick K. C. Price, Ph.D.

(Reply letter by Dr Price excerpted from the Dakes family's answer to the charge of racism - http://www.dake.com/position.html)




Has any one read Dr Fred's book on Race, Religion and Racism?

 

[queenm04]

listen to this…This is from the Dake’s Family

Dake's Perspective

At this point, we would like to clarify Dake's use of "white" with regard to race. Finis Dake understood this word in a much broader sense than the "snow white" or "European white" understanding Dr. Price has ascribed to the term in some of his recent messages. Dake's usage of "white" was consistent with the dictionary explanation that there are only three main ethnic divisions of the human race--Caucasian (white), Negroid (black) and Mongoloid (oriental).

http://www.dake.com/position.html

 

[victoryword]

(Reply letter by Dr Price excerpted from the Dakes family's answer to the charge of racism - http://www.dake.com/position.html)




Has any one read Dr Fred's book on Race, Religion and Racism?

I read volume 1. It was very good. I gave it away and want another copy - actually I plan to buy all three volumes.

 

[queenm04]

will also research more on the net about the books.

 

[Sephania]

I have the 1987 -5th printing version and it has what was printed above. I don't however see where it is speaking of segregation as we know it, except in its title. It was not meant I believe to mean what it does today regarding black from white. There is black blood in the tribes, also there are Black or African Jews. So it is not a segragation of color, but of G-ds. The L-rD calls his people to be separate from the world, the heathens, those that worship other "g/ds" and follow wickedness and rebbellion against him. The "Old Testament" is full of stories about this.

In Revelation even in chap 18 we see the calling from heaven "Come out of her my people", these people are G-ds people, of ALL colors. That is what the L-rD teaches, I dont' know the heart of F Dake, but those scriptures are upholding the "Segregation" of the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, not the black and the whites although some may use this for their own demonic agenda.

 

[queenm04]

I have the 1987 -5th printing version and it has what was printed above. I don't however see where it is speaking of segregation as we know it, except in its title. It was not meant I believe to mean what it does today regarding black from white. There is black blood in the tribes, also there are Black or African Jews. So it is not a segragation of color, but of G-ds. The L-rD calls his people to be separate from the world, the heathens, those that worship other "g/ds" and follow wickedness and rebbellion against him. The "Old Testament" is full of stories about this.

In Revelation even in chap 18 we see the calling from heaven "Come out of her my people", these people are G-ds people, of ALL colors. That is what the L-rD teaches, I dont' know the heart of F Dake, but those scriptures are upholding the "Segregation" of the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, not the black and the whites although some may use this for their own demonic agenda.

Shalom Zayit


Apparently what is above is a toned down version. if someone can help me understand why did Dakes choose to use such a big sensitive term, 'segregation'??? when during the time of the writings there were sensitivities around the issue? my mom thinks he was trying to impress the segregationists of the day!!! and that ain't funny!!!

 

[whoopiepie]

In Revelation even in chap 18 we see the calling from heaven "Come out of her my people", these people are G-ds people, of ALL colors. That is what the L-rD teaches, I dont' know the heart of F Dake, but those scriptures are upholding the "Segregation" of the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares, not the black and the whites although some may use this for their own demonic agenda.
==============================================
Amen!!!!!!!!!!

 

[queenm04]

Just checked the king James version online, it does not have 'segregation' at all! it looks like Mr Dake knew what he was 'exactly doing' by employing a racially sensitive word like that!!!words like consencration or dedication are not as emotionally loaded!!!

 

[Sephania]

Shalom Zayit


Apparently what is above is a toned down version. if someone can help me understand why did Dakes choose to use such a big sensitive term, 'segregation'??? when during the time of the writings there were sensitivities around the issue? my mom thinks he was trying to impress the segregationists of the day!!! and that ain't funny!!!

Like I said many take scripture and twist it to their view of the world, that is not what the L-RD meant in those scriptures, I can't speak for Dake. But if you do look up segregation in the dictionary like I did you will find that it means to

1."set apart from others"

OR

#2 To separate from the rest of society ( such as racial)

Now if Dake were implying #2 in the racial sense then it is wrong, Wrong, WRONG! and unG-dly. As I tried to explain before the L-rD made us all , and of the exact sex, color, family, country, etc that HE wanted us to be and he loves us all. But not all love him, to show our love for him he has told us to separate ourselves from those who do not, to not follow their ways, but be holy unto him.

Notice he says to separate ourselves, and in Revelation he calls us to come out. This is of our own free will to do, we do the action, not he, or anyone else. This is the big difference in apartheid, there were those who esteemed themselves above others and took it upon themselves to "segregate" because of their own bigotry.

That is not of the one True G-d, that is of Satan, I don't care under what church banner this was done, it is plain and simple. G-d calls us out, asks us to not be part of the sinful world. While these others have proclaimed those with a certain color of skin to be sinful or cursed or not as good and therefore pen them in so as not to be tainted. Again this is NOT of G-d.

Although I am Jewish I was brought up in a Christian home and a Christian church ( assilmilated because my family wasn't acceptable being Jewish) and I remember a song I was taught in Kindergarten Bible Nursery school. It was called

Jesus loves the little children

ALL the children of the world,
Red, and yellow, black and white ( Notice white comes last )
they are precious in his sight
Jesus loves the little children of the world.

And I believed that way back then, and still do today.

 

[RAYQUAN]

I am absolutely appaled by this sin soaked bible commentary being associated with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The body of Christ is in bad shape when we cannot discern good from evil. Mt 18:17 means nothing anymore. Would you drink some water if it only had a .5% amount of feces in it? Then why would you feed your spirit some crap. If the body of Christ is ever going to make an impact on the world, we first need be on one accord, and with racist and divisive teachings floating around, we will not get there.

 

[LogonLalein]

Dont remember posting on this forum before. Hi to you all

Have posted the same question in the general theology forum. am hoping to get different perspectives. hope the mods wont merge the threads



Am not sure how many of you use the Dake's bible. but this has disturbed me.
A friend I have just met not long ago told me that Dake’s (Author of Finnis Dake’s annotated reference bible) was racist. Apparently in his publishing company. (Dake’s) they are trying to ‘tone down’ the statements he said under "30 reasons for segregation of races."in page 159 of the New Testament. Since he died in 1987. South Africa is a racially sensitive country. Having seen what the apartheid system has done to this country I cannot believe that Dake can be one of the people that can perpetuate such!!! Have used the Dake Bible for sometime now. My father has used it from long ago.


Does any one have those 30 reasons from the earlier versions? And any views on these. This is so injuring to the spirit man!


I asked my dad to read me some of the statements over the phone earlier because he has an earlier version. He says one of the statements goes,


‘Different races in heaven will not pray together’


Did not hear the other one very well that says ‘separation of races, especially black races, bla bla, bla, my father said it is for the first time he saw those statements. He says they are so alarming.

I also hear, dont know how true, there were people that were still perpetuating Dake's racist ideas. like the Word of Faith Movement ministers, and diaspora american ministers began to stand up against all these. and some WoF jr was called to apologise for the movement on behalf of his father, and he did not! any one has a clue???

Nip this one in the bud...(hehehe)

Fred Price as a graduate of Rhema Bible School (WoF, Hagin) and a world famous WORD of FAITH teacher. He has taugth extensively against the early Dakes version that contained these statements.
So, no... it was actually the Charismatic and Pentecostal ministers who ignored the racist remarks in Dakes Bible for over 50 years.
So it was a WOF minister that brought the whole thing out and called for action.

BTW... Fred is black.

Here is a book by Brother Fred on the subject:

Race, Religion & Racism, Vol. 1: A Bold Encounter With Division in the Church (Hardcover)
by Frederick K. C. Price (Author)


http://www.amazon.com/Race-Religion-Racism-Vol-Encounter/dp/1883798361


Oh.... did I mention Fred is a WOF preacher???

LOL...

 

[Basdub]

I believe in Christ only.
I believe that God has reveled secrets to many different people throughout the years.
I'm stating the fact that none of them were perfect in everything.

If you're not able to differentiate the gift of God to ones person, i think it's just sad.

Remember the judgments God has given to Israel in the past, like killing all the people beast and everything else on the land. David was a a man like God's heart and has killed so many people even though "thou shall not kill".

His word is given to people that are not perfect but still has a precious a personal relation with Him.

Another example is the First Church before Paul gave his teaching. They were saved but wrong in many teaching since the secrets we're reveled to Paul. That doesn't mean that Jake and Peter we're terrible people.

God has shown us that racism was bad only years ago. That doesn't mean that everybody before we not saved because in general they were racist.

Anyway, keep an open mind and forgive one another has God forgive your sins.

God bless all of you.

 

[JEBrady]

The link to the Dake position paper, posted twice already, doesn't work for me. The website was probably reorganized, and I think this is it now:
http://www.dake.com/dake/position.html

 

[NorrinRadd]

will also research more on the net about the books.

First of all, the crux of the problem is that Dake totally misunderstood the concept of "race." In Scripture, it does not refer to "skin color," but primarily to matters of culture, especially belief.

The racial issue is, unfortunately, relatively minor compared to some of Dake's other errors. Here is an article dealing with one of the more theologically crucial ones.

 

[NorrinRadd]

Also, AOG churches are the most integrated in the country... these are also heavy into WoF.

The AG officially rejects "Positive Confession" as "excess" and "aberration."

 

[geetrue]

Dakes KJV with notes is a fire starter for the Word of God ... I have one so old the covers are missing.

Mr. Dake wrote his KJV with notes in 1954 ...

Mr. Dake was born and raised in Georgia ...

No computers were available in the 1950's that could
have helped Mr Dake compile his wonderfully made KJV with notes.

I have been storing my Dakes within four feet of me for a long long time now.

I am ashamed that I have not refered to the carefully compiled ingredients more often.

I want to scan it and enlarge the many notes that help me think and renew my spirit.

I forgive Mr Dake for making a racist comment ...

I will absorb his good and ignore his one (in this matter)proven wrong thought, although he did have a few thoughts about other worlds and how the other people in Adams day got here, but I will also leave those aside for now.

Look at this quote from the Dakes web page:

Torrents of praise began to flow from my lips as I received in measure what the disciples had on the day of Pentecost. It was May, 1920, and I was seventeen years old.

I was immediately able to quote hundreds of Scriptures without memorizing them. I also noticed a quickening of my mind to know what chapters and books various verses were found in. Before conversion, I had not read one full chapter of the Bible. This new knowledge of Scripture was a gift to me, for which I give God the praise.
From the time of this special anointing until now, I have never had to memorize the thousands of scriptures I use in teaching. I just quote a verse when I need it, by the anointing of the Spirit.

 

[lilpal]

The thread I'm replying to is very old but you may still be looking for someone who has page 159 of the New Testament from Dake's Bible. The 30 reasons for segregation are there and I must say, they are very incriminating. I really enjoy Dakes Bible but cannot agree with his views in that respect.

 

[JEBrady]

21 aTest all things; bhold fast what is good.
a 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 John 4:1

b Phil. 4:8

The New King James Version. 1996, c1982 . Thomas Nelson: Nashville

There's a lot in Dake's Bible that's worth holding on to.