Cyprian and Others Against Pope Stephen

[Standing Up]

Since some around GT like Cyprian's words, as if they're sacrosanct, here's the introduction to something else he and 86 bishops said against Pope Stephen of Rome who allowed that heretical baptism was equivalent to Christian baptism.

The Seventh Council of Carthage under Cyprian.46734673 [On councils, see Oxford trans., pp. 232, 240.]
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Concerning the Baptism of Heretics. The Judgment of Eighty-Seven Bishops on the Baptism of Heretics.
Proœmium.—When http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.vi.i.html?highlight=rome,stephen#highlightStephen, Bishop of Rome, Had by His Letters Condemned the Decrees of the African Council on the Baptism of Heretics, Cyprian Lost No Time in Holding Another Council at Carthage with a Greater Number of Bishops. Having Therefore Summoned Eighty-Seven Bishops from Africa, Numidia, and Mauritania, Who Assembled at Carthage in the Kalends of September, a.d. 258, This Third Council on the Same Matter of Baptism Was Then Celebrated; At the Beginning of Which, After the Letters on Either Side Had Been Read, Cyprian, by Implication, Condemns the Assumption of Stephen.4674

... Cyprian of Carthage said: The letter which was written to our colleague Jubaianus very fully expresses my opinion, that, according to evangelical and apostolic testimony, heretics, who are called adversaries of Christ and Antichrists, when they come to the Church, must be baptized with the one baptism of the Church, that they may be made of adversaries, friends, and of Antichrists, Christians

ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Pope Stephen of Rome, to the contrary, permitted the adversaries and antichrists' baptisms to be the same as those in the Church. Cyprian, etal, disagreed.

 

[Knee V]

I agree that the ancient Popes of Rome were not what modern-day Catholics claim they were.

 

[Rick Otto]

I always enjoy hearing about the history of the one true church.
86 out of a total of how many bishops?

 

[Standing Up]

I always enjoy hearing about the history of the one true church.
86 out of a total of how many bishops?

Good question. Not sure how many got the memo.

It's interesting that the point is clearly made that Cyprian's council had more bishops than Stephen did in support of the Catholic Church (the one apart from Rome, ie the Roman Church). It was basically the Catholic Church vs. the Roman Church over the baptism issue. Back then, perhaps the thinking was majority rules in an ecumenical council. After all, that is the definition of catholic (universal---the more the more right, believed by all everywhere always). Rome didn't like that definition of catholic.

In addition, there was the 'rule of faith' over the issue. Folks can read through each of the bishops' comments and why they thought Rome's baptism by heretics, antichrists, and adversaries was invalid. They thought believers entering the Catholic Church (not Pope Stephen's Roman Church) needed to be baptized by her.

 

[Standing Up]

I agree that the ancient Popes of Rome were not what modern-day Catholics claim they were.

Well, there's Sunday school and then there's Sunday school.

 

[Standing Up]

Pope Stephen was saying that anyone's baptism, any religion, was the same as a Christian baptism. Cyprian and the others denied this.

... Cyprian of Carthage said: The letter which was written to our colleague Jubaianus very fully expresses my opinion, that, according to evangelical and apostolic testimony, heretics, who are called adversaries of Christ and Antichrists, when they come to the Church, must be baptized with the one baptism of the Church, that they may be made of adversaries, friends, and of Antichrists, Christians.
-from OP-

Rome was saying adversaries and antichrists have the same one faith, God, Lord, way, truth, and baptism as Christianity. Therefore, those people, if they come into the Roman Church, do not need to be rebaptized.

According to Cyprian and the others, the adversaries and antichrists hadn't even been baptized once in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit, thus they must be water baptized if they become believers.

Cyprian stood upon bishop (evangelical) and scripture (apostolic testimony). No idea what Stephen stood upon, except he evidently wanted to somehow broaden the road of Christianity to include those from the outside (any other faith). IIRC, that was Rome's way though, assimilation of a variety of cultures and practices in order to maintain their control and empire peace; for Rome, why would Christianity be any different?