Curious if God preordained Hitler

[Anguspure]

No, we are all part of his plan, and are carrying it out, and that has great meaning...

Look... even God the Son is "locked into this" by the Father... why is it so bothersome, or troubling or disturbing...?

It's a relief to me now, knowing God is in control of all things... Brings me a certain kind of peace now...

We do have to do something and act as if we do have free-will, like I already said in my other posts and am getting tired of repeating already...

What is all this struggling and fighting with yourself really doing for you anyway...?

Just "be"... Let go and let God...

God Bless!

If I act according to the way I feel like acting, I will do something that leads to death. I use my free will to choose a different path. I have seen the consequence of going down the path that does not please God. Struggling and fighting with myself is saving others and myself from some pretty terrible harm and death.

 

[Anguspure]

why would you create evil?

if we were created in his image, then, does God have a dark side?

Evil is the absence of good in the same way that darkness is the absence of light.

When God creates from nothing He creates a contrast between things that are Him and things that are not Him.

When God creates a space there will be a distinction between places that He is in fullness and places where He is not.

In the moral space evil occurs where God is not present, or at least not present to the extent that would be called good.

So the contrasts necessary in order for creation of a moral world to occur at all make the contrast between good and evil.

 

[Micah888]

Did God knowingly create Hitler?

Why focus only on Hitler? God knows exactly who will be evil and who will not, well in advance of their births. To say that He "created Hitler" is false and misleading. God does not put evil thoughts and desires into anyone's heart. Hitler chose to be evil and became a puppet of Satan.

Also, it is interesting how everyone focuses on Hitler, while calmly ignoring Lenin and Stalin. And if you want to be quite honest, Roosevelt and Churchill were evil by proxy, for handing over large chunks of territory to Stalin, so he could continue with his evil deeds. He was even more evil than Hitler.

 

[messianist]

Some scripture to consider

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[Neogaia777]

If I act according to the way I feel like acting, I will do something that leads to death. I use my free will to choose a different path. I have seen the consequence of going down the path that does not please God. Struggling and fighting with myself is saving others and myself from some pretty terrible harm and death.

I'm not saying you should always follow your feelings, cause following your feelings all the time is not free will either, but neither is denying them all the time either, as well...

We have no choice but to proceed as if we have a choice, and if you believe that denying your feelings is by your choice, (and not because that is what's really in your heart and that your heart wishes to obey, and, in that way, God already knows and predisposed you to be doing, or be that way, or the way you are, or the way that you choose to be)... Anyway if you believe that denying yourself and your feelings sometimes is by your own choice, and it's not something your predisposed to be doing, then, who am I to argue, I guess...

As I already said we have to proceed as if we do have choice, cause there is just no other choice... And for some, like you, I guess that means you have to believe that you have choice, and I'll just leave it at that, OK...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Why focus only on Hitler? God knows exactly who will be evil and who will not, well in advance of their births. To say that He "created Hitler" is false and misleading. God does not put evil thoughts and desires into anyone's heart. Hitler chose to be evil and became a puppet of Satan.

Also, it is interesting how everyone focuses on Hitler, while calmly ignoring Lenin and Stalin. And if you want to be quite honest, Roosevelt and Churchill were evil by proxy, for handing over large chunks of territory to Stalin, so he could continue with his evil deeds. He was even more evil than Hitler.

Post #30:

God "created everything to be the way it is, and how people and societies are, or would turn out to be, or become, ect, from the very beginning"... He didn't and does not "cause them to be that way" but "created them all to be, and to turn out (in time) to be that way", and there is a big difference in that/those...

And He knew what "they all would become and turn out to be" from the very beginning, to their end, from the beginning of making or creating them that way, but did and does not "cause" them to be that way, and there is a difference...

That's "omniscience" BTW...

IOW, he does not directly "cause individuals (or societies, or people groups, leaders, ect) to be evil", but "created the evil in the world" that would "cause some to turn out to be evil"... And he knows every single one, (what they will choose, all that) already from the very beginning, and/but orchestrates it all for the greater and much better good in the end...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

I'm not saying you should always follow your feelings, cause following your feelings all the time is not free will either, but neither is denying them all the time either, as well...

We have no choice but to proceed as if we have a choice, and if you believe that denying your feelings is by your choice, (and not because that is what's really in your heart and that your heart wishes to obey, and, in that way, God already knows and predisposed you to be doing, or be that way, or the way you are, or the way that you choose to be)... Anyway if you believe that denying yourself and your feelings sometimes is by your own choice, and it's not something your predisposed to be doing, then, who am I to argue, I guess...

As I already said we have to proceed as if we do have choice, cause there is just no other choice... And for some, like you, I guess that means you have to believe that you have choice, and I'll just leave it at that, OK...?

God Bless!

Well you certainly don't have a choice in the matter, do you? Whatever you do is simply what you are programmed to do.

 

[Anguspure]

Some scripture to consider

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Yes, He creates evil by choosing to be absent, at least in part, from certain parts of existence. He also creates darkness by allowing the same.
It is interesting that the word translated "peace" here is Shalom which more correctly means "everything is as it should be according to His will", in other words Shalom is the presence of God.

 

[JIMINZ]

Well if there is no free will then those who walk after the flesh have no choice in the matter irrespective of whether it leads to death or not.

True, you got it.

 

[JIMINZ]

We don't have to do anything if there is no choice. Language such as this indicates actual free choice. If I have free choice then I am free to choose between what I have to do and what I do not.

If there is no choice then we are automatons that are programmed to act as if we have free choice.
If there is no free choice then I will do what I am programmed to do.

In fact if there is no free will, what I have typed here is only the product of a program that responds to some input with a pre-ordained output, as is what you have typed. It must all look amusing to God I guess but is ultimately meaningless.

.
It would really be a simple matter to understand if, you stopped believing that the ability to make choices ie, Free Will applied to everything you will ever come in contact with, when that belief is not necessarily so.

Scripture says.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Doesnt this mean that all are the servants of sin, because we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam?

1Co 15:21,22
21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Eph. 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.

This is not only speaking about a physical death.

Col. 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Mat. 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Now that, it is understood there is no Free Will concerning Sin.

We then come to the issue of a human beings Free Will and how it works.

Gen. 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Mankind has Dominion to order his life, and to Subdue the Society in which he lives and even the entire World.

Only within the framework of Dominion, resides the Free Will of mankind.

Therefore to a certain degree man does possess Free Will to make choices, but he does not have the Free Will to resist the sin in his life because.

Rom. 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom. 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom. 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[JoeP222w]

Did God knowingly create Hitler?

Yes.

God uses means to display His glory and His attributes, including His justice, righteousness, grace and mercy.

If God did not know, then He is not omniscient. If God is not omniscient, He is not God. Not one electron moves without God knowing about it. God does not learn anything because He already knows all things.

 

[JoeP222w]

God did not preordain Hitler.

Genesis 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

 

[messianist]

Yes, He creates evil by choosing to be absent, at least in part, from certain parts of existence. He also creates darkness by allowing the same.
It is interesting that the word translated "peace" here is Shalom which more correctly means "everything is as it should be according to His will", in other words Shalom is the presence of God.

Hi anguspure

I dont think he is absent from anything, the bible says, And he is before all things, and by him all things consist, I believe when it says he created evil this is where satan comes in to play, he is evil and he is the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: there is a working going on in all people it is either satan working in the unregenerate or its Elohim working in his children.
Every Blessing

 

[Cement]

.
It would really be a simple matter to understand if, you stopped believing that the ability to make choices ie, Free Will applied to everything you will ever come in contact with, when that belief is not necessarily so.

Scripture says.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Rom. 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Doesnt this mean that all are the servants of sin, because we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam?

1Co 15:21,22
21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Eph. 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.

This is not only speaking about a physical death.

Col. 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Mat. 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Now that, it is understood there is no Free Will concerning Sin.

We then come to the issue of a human beings Free Will and how it works.

Gen. 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Mankind has Dominion to order his life, and to Subdue the Society in which he lives and even the entire World.

Only within the framework of Dominion, resides the Free Will of mankind.

Therefore to a certain degree man does possess Free Will to make choices, but he does not have the Free Will to resist the sin in his life because.

Rom. 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom. 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom. 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What’s the purpose of repenting, your ignoring the VAST amount of scripture telling people to turn away from their wicked ways. God calling people to be repent and be saved he wishes all to be saved and all can be saved!

 

[Neogaia777]

.

 

[dysert]

God is the source of evil - Isaiah 45:7

I'd like to see a word study done on what's translated "evil" in that verse. Other versions of the Bible translate it differently, and indeed there are other places in the Bible where that Hebrew word (rah) is translated into a different word.

 

[JIMINZ]

What’s the purpose of repenting, your ignoring the VAST amount of scripture telling people to turn away from their wicked ways. God calling people to be repent and be saved he wishes all to be saved and all can be saved!

.
So what your saying is, people make up their minds to come to God, then they Repent of their sins, and accept Jesus, is that it?

What about.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Eph 2:8,9
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Therefore, if you make up your mind one day and exercise you Free Will, by Repenting of your sins, God then would owe you Salvation wouldn't He?

Where then is the Drawing and the Grace of God?

Man cannot come to God on his own when he wants to, he must be Drawn and then given the Free Gift.

 

[Neogaia777]

Well you certainly don't have a choice in the matter, do you? Whatever you do is simply what you are programmed to do.

Probably, but I'm fine with that... I've made peace with that...

Let me put it this way, will you tell God, "I made myself better", "I was the source and cause of my own improvement", "I obeyed due to me," "I, I, I" did this or that, or "I caused myself to be or become this or that good thing"... "I am the source of my own goodness" (if you can even be any kind of good by saying, or stating, or acting like that, that is) Anyway, will you say "It was all (every good thing in me or that I became) It was all "I" and "me" and not you God", to God...

Or would you like to say it was God, and all God, and was/is all because of God...?

As for me, I would rather even "disobey" in some areas, rather than take the credit of being completely obedient my own self, or for my own self, and not God alone get all the glory out of it (which is probably why I'm not completely obedient yet)...

And besides that, I wonder if you don't just step into a whole other kind of sin(s), when, and or where, you would get the credit your own self... And, I wonder if that kind of obedience really means much of anything to God also... (especially where and maybe it is just stepping into a whole other kind(s) of sin)...

God Bless!

 

[Cement]

.
So what your saying is, people make up their minds to come to God, then they Repent of their sins, and accept Jesus, is that it?

What about.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Eph 2:8,9
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Therefore, if you make up your mind one day and exercise you Free Will, by Repenting of your sins, God then would owe you Salvation wouldn't He?

Where then is the Drawing and the Grace of God?

Man cannot come to God on his own when he wants to, he must be Drawn and then given the Free Gift.

God draws all people by the conviction of their sins that they may come to him. Some continue in their sin and sear their conscience. Everyone is guilty but we must REPENT and be saved. It says this very boldly and clearly in the Bible. Repent and be Saved!

 

[JIMINZ]

God draws all people by the conviction of their sins that they may come to him. Some continue in their sin and sear their conscience. Everyone is guilty but we must REPENT and be saved. It says this very boldly and clearly in the Bible. Repent and be Saved!

Where is that said?