Curious if God preordained Hitler

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Neogaia777

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Nothing we can do about it anyway if we do not have choice in the matter. Just gotta go with the flow I guess.
Once you get over and past that "attitude", it can bring you a certain kind of "peace" if you allow it to...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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The choice that I make daily in every situation is whether to do His will or the will of my flesh.
My flesh tells me to do something that displeases Him.What will I choose?
If I have no free will the answer is irrelevant because that is what I was going to choose anyway, and if the choice leads me away from Him and off to destruction then that is what was going to happen anyway, it's all in His will and I don't have one.
And... what were you going to choose anyway...?

Why would you want to walk in or go after the flesh anyway...? If that's what you really want to do then do it...

God wants the willing anyway, and those trying very hard in their own power and strength to walk in his will, while not really wanting or really desiring to in their hearts...? Well, you tell me...? How does God view such ones...?

You think they will get a "great reward" for that, or not...?

Is there really a great reward for those not desiring or really wanting and longing after God and his will in their hearts, but really secretly, in their hearts, want to disobey...?

If your obedience does not come from a willingness in your heart to obey, I do not think God is at all interested in it anyway... I just don't think it means much of anything to him if it's not that...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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The choice that I make daily in every situation is whether to do His will or the will of my flesh.
My flesh tells me to do something that displeases Him.What will I choose?
If I have no free will the answer is irrelevant because that is what I was going to choose anyway, and if the choice leads me away from Him and off to destruction then that is what was going to happen anyway, it's all in His will and I don't have one.
Walking after the flesh comes with much bad (consequences) (suffering, sorrow, anguish, pain, misery) "in this life" to say nothing about the next... If but for those reasons alone, why in the heck would you want to do it...? (are you really that pseudo masochistic...?)

God does not want to, nor forces us to walk in his will, but for all to know how very good his will is, and that it's for the best for us, even and especially "in this life", and is the only way to have true happiness "in this life", to say nothing of the next...

I feel sorry for people who think walking after the flesh brings lasting pleasure in this life, (that is a major lie and great deception of the enemy) when it just "does not at all", but walking in God's will and ways does (in this life, to say nothing of the next)... So, do you want lasting pleasure and not misery in this life, or not...? Cause only God's ways can do and bring that...

Or do you just not see how good He (God) is...?

God Bless!
 
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Anguspure

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And... what were you going to choose anyway...?

Why would you want to walk in or go after the flesh anyway...? If that's what you really want to do then do it...

God wants the willing anyway, and those trying very hard in their own power and strength to walk in his will, while not really wanting or really desiring to in their hearts...? Well, you tell me...? How does God view such ones...?

You think they will get a "great reward" for that, or not...?

Is there really a great reward for those not desiring or really wanting and longing after God and his will in their hearts, but really secretly, in their hearts, want to disobey...?

If your obedience does not come from a willingness in your heart to obey, I do not think God is at all interested in it anyway... I just don't think it means much of anything to him if it's not that...

God Bless!
Willingness would imply will, and if there is a difference between willing and unwilling then there is a choice to be made.

If as you have asserted that there is no free will to make a free choice then what God wants is what God gets irrespective of willingness or otherwise.

If there is no free will then we are puppets either dancing to our DNA or dancing to the Will of God.
 
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Anguspure

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Walking after the flesh comes with much bad (consequences) (suffering, sorrow, anguish, pain, misery) "in this life" to say nothing about the next... If but for those reasons alone, why in the heck would you want to do it...? (are you really that pseudo masochistic...?)

God does not want to, nor forces us to walk in his will, but for all to know how very good his will is, and that it's for the best for us, even and especially "in this life", and is the only way to have true happiness "in this life", to say nothing of the next...

I feel sorry for people who think walking after the flesh brings lasting pleasure in this life, (that is a major lie and great deception of the enemy) when it just "does not at all", but walking in God's will and ways does (in this life, to say nothing of the next)... So, do you want lasting pleasure and not misery in this life, or not...? Cause only God's ways can do and bring that...

Or do you just not see how good He (God) is...?

God Bless!
Well if there is no free will then those who walk after the flesh have no choice in the matter irrespective of whether it leads to death or not.
 
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Neogaia777

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Willingness would imply will, and if there is a difference between willing and unwilling then there is a choice to be made.

If as you have asserted that there is no free will to make a free choice then what God wants is what God gets irrespective of willingness or otherwise.

If there is no free will then we are puppets either dancing to our DNA or dancing to the Will of God.
We have to make the choice, but God already knows the choice, so it's not really a choice, that much is true, but, what other way do you/we have to go about it...? (Is also my point)...

What's in your "heart"... Do you really do want to obey, but sometimes can't sometimes...? Or are you trying very hard to obey, but while you really do not want to...? Not really, not in your heart anyway...?

That may be the difference, IDK...? God judges and his judgement is based on hearts...

God Bless!
 
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teresa

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Just as for all of us who sin, Adolph Hitler took the good that God blessed him with when He created him and turned it into a nightmare.

Hitler was given such a great gift that as a leader who followed Christ Jesus would have been an amazing man and a great statesman.

But because he chose evil, his great gift became a great catastrophy.

You are right he was an eloquent speaker, and great leader and statesman-what if he had used that to promote Jesus instead of evil? Very good points.

But did God know this would happen? Now there is the rub.
 
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Neogaia777

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Well if there is no free will then those who walk after the flesh have no choice in the matter irrespective of whether it leads to death or not.
If God does not tell us, then we have to go about it as if we do have a choice then, don't we...?

Were going to start going in circles now, and I feel I have explained this already so...?

Do what's in your heart...

God Bless!
 
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teresa

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No Christian who believes omniscience entails God knowing every detail of the future can deny God knew every detail about Hitler before he would ever be born including all of his family genealogy.

omniscience blows away any belief that evil just happens as a matter of free will, doesn't it?
 
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Neogaia777

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Willingness would imply will, and if there is a difference between willing and unwilling then there is a choice to be made.

If as you have asserted that there is no free will to make a free choice then what God wants is what God gets irrespective of willingness or otherwise.

If there is no free will then we are puppets either dancing to our DNA or dancing to the Will of God.
You know, after you get over this (this truth and this defeatist attitude you seem to have about it), what will you "do" then...?

What are your "choices", what are your options really...?

Consider that please... Then look back on what I have said and have been saying...

God Bless!
 
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teresa

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Jeremiah 1:5 was specifically referring to Jeremiah. Not everyone was appointed a prophet to the nations:

Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:4-5 NASB)​

Jesus said He never knew those who practice lawlessness:

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:23 NASB)​
As an example, I was quoting Jeremiah in regards to the section where it is written that God first knows us....and only after knowing our souls, does he breathe life into us

But first we were picked
 
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teresa

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God has given the rights and freedom for mankind to pro-create their offsprings, if their offsprings became evil like Cain, thats because God gave Free Will to mankind, free to do good or not good. We are not created as robots, so people became evil like Hitler it was not God's intention but Hitler choosed the evil things.

And God knew that He would, just like He fore knew that Judas would as well

It bothers me
 
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Neogaia777

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Well if there is no free will then those who walk after the flesh have no choice in the matter irrespective of whether it leads to death or not.
Why does this seem to change so much for you...?

It really does not change a thing... Knowing God already knows should not change much, other than just knowing he knows, and maybe your seeking his counsel from time to time...

Why does it have to change "so much" for you...? When it really does not change (much) at all... (another one of my points)...

Is God letting you know the "outcome of all your choices"...? If he is not, then why does it have to change "so much"...?

God Bless!
 
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Anguspure

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If God does not tell us, then we have to go about it as if we do have a choice then, don't we...?

Were going to start going in circles now, and I feel I have explained this already so...?

Do what's in your heart...

God Bless!
We don't have to do anything if there is no choice. Language such as this indicates actual free choice. If I have free choice then I am free to choose between what I have to do and what I do not.

If there is no choice then we are automatons that are programmed to act as if we have free choice.
If there is no free choice then I will do what I am programmed to do.

In fact if there is no free will, what I have typed here is only the product of a program that responds to some input with a pre-ordained output, as is what you have typed. It must all look amusing to God I guess but is ultimately meaningless.
 
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Anguspure

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And God knew that He would, just like He fore knew that Judas would as well

It bothers me
Middle knowledge and free will.
I have considered this at length and realise that really at any given time there is only one life that is being lived, that is the life of the individual that God is walking with for that lifetime.

In this respect the error of Hitler is only the same as the error of you or I, and why should he have not been given the oppurtunity to live out his life asw we also have been given?
 
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Neogaia777

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We don't have to do anything if there is no choice. Language such as this indicates actual free choice. If I have free choice then I am free to choose between what I have to do and what I do not.

If there is no choice then we are automatons that are programmed to act as if we have free choice.
If there is no free choice then I will do what I am programmed to do.

In fact if there is no free will, what I have typed here is only the product of a program that responds to some input with a pre-ordained output, as is what you have typed. It must all look amusing to God I guess but is ultimately meaningless.
No, we are all part of his plan, and are carrying it out, and that has great meaning...

Look... even God the Son is "locked into this" by the Father... why is it so bothersome, or troubling or disturbing...?

It's a relief to me now, knowing God is in control of all things... Brings me a certain kind of peace now...

We do have to do something and act as if we do have free-will, like I already said in my other posts and am getting tired of repeating already...

What is all this struggling and fighting with yourself really doing for you anyway...?

Just "be"... Let go and let God...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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why would you create evil?

if we were created in his image, then, does God have a dark side?
To bring about the ultimate and greatest and greater good, and no, God does not have a dark side, it was probably just that, this evil was necessary to bring about a much greater and much more ultimate good, in the end...

Do I understand how or why, no, but I have faith in the Father's goodness, and that's all I really need...

In the cosmic scale of eternal time, this evil here now will seem like a very short and very temporary light affliction, in the end...

God Bless!
 
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