Curious if God preordained Hitler

[R. Hartono]

God has given the rights and freedom for mankind to pro-create their offsprings, if their offsprings became evil like Cain, thats because God gave Free Will to mankind, free to do good or not good. We are not created as robots, so people became evil like Hitler it was not God's intention but Hitler choosed the evil things.

 

[Anguspure]

Did God knowingly create Hitler? (Jeremiah 1:5 for example)

I'm looking for opinions, as I don't personally even begin to know how to answer this question.

Please provide opinions and thoughts with scripture to back it up, if you are able, or refer to others.

Thank you.

Just as for all of us who sin, Adolph Hitler took the good that God blessed him with when He created him and turned it into a nightmare.

Hitler was given such a great gift that as a leader who followed Christ Jesus would have been an amazing man and a great statesman.

But because he chose evil, his great gift became a great catastrophy.

 

[Neogaia777]

God has given the rights and freedom for mankind to pro-create their offsprings, if their offsprings became evil like Cain, thats because God gave Free Will to mankind, free to do good or not good. We are not created as robots, so people became evil like Hitler it was not God's intention but Hitler choosed the evil things.

Just as for all of us who sin, Adolph Hitler took the good that God blessed him with when He created him and turned it into a nightmare.

Hitler was given such a great gift that as a leader who followed Christ Jesus would have been an amazing man and a great statesman.

But because he chose evil, his great gift became a great catastrophy.

Free will is an "illusion and delusion of the rebellious in, and at heart", (I know cause I use to be one) and of those who lack understanding of God the Father's ways, and seek (the truth of) it/them not... For it is, and they are not, "easy to understand" by any means... And is the delusion of the rebellious who cannot justify God in their hearts without it (the illusion/delusion of free will)...

Sorry but it's true, we must all wrestle with it...

God Bless!

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I've heard people trying to use that passage as evidence of God "changing his mind", but I never bought it...

Yeah Open View Theism would be the only possible escape from the problem of Hitler, but the problem with that is it is not a Biblical view of God, and creates more problems (passages) than it solves.

God also knew that Moses would do what he did and say what he said also, so he (God) might have had the intention of sparing Israel all along, but might have had something to prove or say, or a point to make to and with Moses as well, personally to him (Moses) maybe...?

Kinda wondering what that point might have been, if that was the case...?

Any thoughts on that maybe...?

God Bless!

Over the years, I've thought about this many times as it's related to the "problem of evil" in philosophy also, and honesty do not think there is a satisfactory answer, at least in our way of seeing things. We could view it as a judgement of God on the Jews for their part in rejecting Christ as the Messiah for more than a thousand years, but that provides no comfort to those that suffered or family or relatives that suffered in loosing loved ones and the ongoing suffering that resulted. From one human to another, it's just heartbreaking and stirs up feelings of wrath and judgement on the most evil and vile that have more in common with demons it would seem than men. However, even still, we read about God's role in the slaughtering all the firstborn in Egypt (Exodus 12:29 ) the Passover event, celebrated to this day, which probably pales by comparison to the flood in Noah's day. I suppose these deaths of massive proportion should encourage a healthy fear of the Lord in all of mankind (unfortunately it's not the case). If He spares not the Angels when they sinned, why should he spare us? That's my two cents worth on it.

 

[R. Hartono]

Free will is an "illusion and delusion of the rebellious in, and at heart", (I know cause I use to be one)

Yeah, you deem that out of your Free Will anyway.

 

[Cement]

This line of thinking that God preordaines everything is wrong. I used to think this way because when I first heard a Calvinist minister preach (being from a Catholic family) I thought huh that sounds logical that since God is all powerful he simply has control of everything and so is his hand like a marionette on strings but we have to remember that everyone has freewill to choose salvation or not. God isnt going to intervene into every little affair. Hitler was just following what he thought was right in his own eyes since his conscience was seared by sin. He was blinded by the devil. We all have freewill and God wants to help us up we just have to ask and be patient.

 

[zoidar]

Did God knowingly create Hitler? (Jeremiah 1:5 for example)

I'm looking for opinions, as I don't personally even begin to know how to answer this question.

Please provide opinions and thoughts with scripture to back it up, if you are able, or refer to others.

Thank you.

Did God create satan, or did God create Lucifer who rebelled and became satan? I think that is the answer to your question.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yeah, you deem that out of your Free Will anyway.

Actually, I did not... God himself had to show it to me (over and over, again and again) Before I would give up my past, stubborn, rebellious views on how I use to a very big proponent or free will, and stubbornly defended it many, many times...

God himself had to show me (many times, over and over) just how wrong I was... So, I did not choose it...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

This line of thinking that God preordaines everything is wrong. I used to think this way because when I first heard a Calvinist minister preach (being from a Catholic family) I thought huh that sounds logical that since God is all powerful he simply has control of everything and so is his hand like a marionette on strings but we have to remember that everyone has freewill to choose salvation or not. God isnt going to intervene into every little affair. Hitler was just following what he thought was right in his own eyes since his conscience was seared by sin. He was blinded by the devil. We all have freewill and God wants to help us up we just have to ask and be patient.

God "created everything to be the way it is, and how people and societies are, or would turn out to be, or become, ect, from the very beginning"... He didn't and does not "cause them to be that way" but "created them all to be, and to turn out (in time) to be that way", and there is a big difference in that/those...

And He knew what "they all would become and turn out to be" from the very beginning, to their end, from the beginning of making or creating them that way, but did and does not "cause" them to be that way, and there is a difference...

That's "omniscience" BTW...

IOW, he does not directly "cause individuals (or societies, or people groups, leaders, ect) to be evil", but "created the evil in the world" that would "cause some to turn out to be evil"... And he knows every single one, (what they will choose, all that) already from the very beginning, and/but orchestrates it all for the greater and much better good in the end...

God Bless!

 

[Cement]

God "created everything to be the way it is, and how people and societies are, or would turn out to be, or become, ect, from the very beginning"... He didn't and does not "cause them to be that way" but "created them all to be, and to turn out (in time) to be that way", and there is a big difference in that/those...

And He knew what "they all would become and turn out to be" from the very beginning, to their end, from the beginning of making or creating them that way, but did and does not "cause" them to be that way, and there is a difference...

That's "omniscience" BTW...

IOW, he does not directly "cause individuals (or societies, or people groups, leaders, ect) to be evil", but "created the evil in the world" that would "cause some to turn out to be evil"... And he knows every single one, (what they will choose, all that) already from the very beginning, and/but orchestrates it all for the greater and much better good in the end...

God Bless!

My head hurts thinking like this. It’s the same Calvinist line of thinking I used to have. When the days went well I thanked God and when the days went bad I blamed God for it. Please stop. God knows everything it’s true but it doesn’t mean I can’t or You can’t influence the world without Him getting involved. God bless you. We agree to disagree.

 

[Neogaia777]

Now am I saying that we should do anything, or try (to do) anything (at all)...? No, I'm not saying that...

In fact we have no other way (or choice) to go about it (this life) as if we do have a choice, because there is simply no other way to do it, or go about it... You should do, and must "try" things, and make decisions and exercise what you believe to be "your will" cause there is just simply no other way to do it or go about it...

I'm just saying that God "already knows" is all...

Might want to seek God's counsel in some of your decisions sometimes though, for this would be wise...

Oh, and if you get "no answer" then just go ahead with what you were going to do in the first place without an answer anyway, (Just make sure your not, not listening to God though) for this might be exactly what he wants you to do anyway...

I'm not saying don't make any decisions at all ,or don't try to do, or try anything...

But seeking God's will and counsel first is always wise...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

My head hurts thinking like this. It’s the same Calvinist line of thinking I used to have. When the days went well I thanked God and when the days went bad I blamed God for it. Please stop. God knows everything it’s true but it doesn’t mean I can’t or You can’t influence the world without Him getting involved. God bless you. We agree to disagree.

Maybe this post (above and before this one) will help... (I hope)...

Sorry, BTW...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

Free will is an "illusion and delusion of the rebellious in, and at heart", (I know cause I use to be one) and of those who lack understanding of God the Father's ways, and seek (the truth of) it/them not... For it is, and they are not, "easy to understand" by any means... And is the delusion of the rebellious who cannot justify God in their hearts without it (the illusion/delusion of free will)...

Sorry but it's true, we must all wrestle with it...

God Bless!

Well this is good news for Hitler I guess. If he had free will he could legitimately be held accountable for his sins. If there was no choice in the matter then he is not culpable for that which he was forced to do.

 

[Neogaia777]

Now am I saying that we should do anything, or try (to do) anything (at all)...? No, I'm not saying that...

In fact we have no other way (or choice) to go about it (this life) as if we do have a choice, because there is simply no other way to do it, or go about it... You should do, and must "try" things, and make decisions and exercise what you believe to be "your will" cause there is just simply no other way to do it or go about it...

I'm just saying that God "already knows" is all...

Might want to seek God's counsel in some of your decisions sometimes though, for this would be wise...

Oh, and if you get "no answer" then just go ahead with what you were going to do in the first place without an answer anyway, (Just make sure your not, not listening to God though) for this might be exactly what he wants you to do anyway...

I'm not saying don't make any decisions at all ,or don't try to do, or try anything...

But seeking God's will and counsel first is always wise...

God Bless!

Oh and God has let me know, (that by our knowing this about him), he is also, not saying this either, (that we shouldn't make any decisions at all, or do or not do, or not try anything), but that he would like it if we sought his counsel sometimes however...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

Oh and God has let me know, (that by our knowing this about him), he is also, not saying this either, (that we shouldn't make any decisions at all, or do or not do, or not try anything), but that he would like it if we sought his counsel sometimes however...

God Bless!

What decisions? We have no free will, no free choice, no control over the direction.

 

[Neogaia777]

Well this is good news for Hitler I guess. If he had free will he could legitimately be held accountable for his sins. If there was no choice in the matter then he is not culpable for that which he was forced to do.

Not necessarily, God can do, and does do, what he wants to with his own things... very bad ones will go to hell... But "why" (that is) God will explain to us, and we will know at the judgement...

God made bad ones for a purpose, but once their purpose is done and through, and ours is not, the ones with no more purpose, or no good purpose anymore will, more than likely, go to hell... "Why" is something God will show and explain to us all at the judgement...

It is not for us to ask God "why", but only to wait and allow him to reveal that to us when he chooses to, and in his own due time...

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

Not necessarily, God can do, and does do, what he wants to with his own things... very bad ones will go to hell... But "why" (that is) God will explain to us, and we will know at the judgement...

God made bad ones for a purpose, but once their purpose is done and through, and ours is not, the ones with no more purpose, or no good purpose anymore will, more than likely, go to hell... "Why" is something God will show and explain to us all at the judgement...

It is not for us to ask God "why", but only to wait and allow him to reveal that to us when he chooses to, and in his own due time...

God Bless!

Nothing we can do about it anyway if we do not have choice in the matter. Just gotta go with the flow I guess.

 

[Neogaia777]

What decisions? We have no free will, no free choice, no control over the direction.

What will you do (about it) then...? Will not go along as you always have for the most part...? I mean what other "choice" do you have...?

Just seek God's counsel sometimes, and know his will, and do you best to walk in it, K...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Nothing we can do about it anyway if we do not have choice in the matter. Just gotta go with the flow I guess.

That is a very defeatist attitude... But, after you "get over it/that", what will do (about it)...? Will not go along as you always have for the most part...? I mean what other "choice" do you have...?

Just seek God's counsel sometimes, and know his will, and do you best to walk in it, K...?

God Bless!

 

[Anguspure]

What will you do (about it) then...? Will not go along as you always have for the most part...? I mean what other "choice" do you have...?

Just seek God's counsel sometimes, and know his will, and do you best to walk in it, K...?

God Bless!

The choice that I make daily in every situation is whether to do His will or the will of my flesh.
My flesh tells me to do something that displeases Him.What will I choose?
If I have no free will the answer is irrelevant because that is what I was going to choose anyway, and if the choice leads me away from Him and off to destruction then that is what was going to happen anyway, it's all in His will and I don't have one.