Curious about Scotland

[JacquelineDeane55]

My family and I were born in the United States BUT my ancestors were from Scotland, and my grandmother tells me that Queen Mary of Scots was an ancestor of mine. They were from Scotland, but some generations ago migrated to the United States and I was lucky enough to be born in Florida, a place I really like because its so tropical and has lovely beaches. I was born on the Space Coast, in Palm Bay, near Cape Canaveral when the space shuttle program was still going on (and I am a huge fan of the space shuttle programs!). Its a wicked cool place to be born I'll tell you that. My childhood was a blast.

Although I don't think we have any rights or claims to thrones nowadays. Scotland is not a monarchy anymore, is it?

I know a little bit about the late Queen but I don't know much about my ancestral home other than what I have seen in pictures, I have never even been there.

They like bagpipes, right? Or is that just a stereotype?

Are you from Scotland? What is it like?

 

[Dave-W]

My wife's family are of Clan Montgomery. Lots of Scots ended up in Tennessee and Kentucky as the hills/mountains were familiar to the highlanders.

The pipes are a big part of the folk music, and in Irish music as well.

 

[Tom 1]

My family and I were born in the United States BUT my ancestors were from Scotland, and my grandmother tells me that Queen Mary of Scots was an ancestor of mine. They were from Scotland, but some generations ago migrated to the United States and I was lucky enough to be born in Florida, a place I really like because its so tropical and has lovely beaches. I was born on the Space Coast, in Palm Bay, near Cape Canaveral when the space shuttle program was still going on (and I am a huge fan of the space shuttle programs!). Its a wicked cool place to be born I'll tell you that. My childhood was a blast.

Although I don't think we have any rights or claims to thrones nowadays. Scotland is not a monarchy anymore, is it?

I know a little bit about the late Queen but I don't know much about my ancestral home other than what I have seen in pictures, I have never even been there.

They like bagpipes, right? Or is that just a stereotype?

Are you from Scotland? What is it like?

Hi, my grandad was Scottish, on my mother’s side. A good starting point is to find out what clan your family were part of and then get in touch with the society that currently represents that clan, most if not all clans have one.
I should warn you though, pretty much everyone with any Scottish heritage has a story in the family that they are descended from such and such a royal person.
Scotland’s monarch, as part of the United Kingdom, is Queen Elizabeth.

By the way it’s a beautiful place to visit,

Tom

 

[Tom 1]

Hi, my grandad was Scottish, on my mother’s side. A good starting point is to find out what clan your family were part of and then get in touch with the society that currently represents that clan, most if not all clans have one.
I should warn you though, pretty much everyone with any Scottish heritage has a story in the family that they are descended from such and such a royal person.
Scotland’s monarch, as part of the United Kingdom, is Queen Elizabeth.

By the way it’s a beautiful place to visit,

Tom

Also yes bagpipes are still very much part of Scottish culture, as well as other Celtic cultures across Europe

 

[Dave-W]

Also, if you are ever east into Virginia, there is a great Scottish store in Colonial Williamsburg (the free part) and the store keepers can give you all kinds of interesting stories; plus you can research the clans and buy tartan materials in your clan's pattern.

Montgomery tartan

 

[fat wee robin]

My wife's family are of Clan Montgomery. Lots of Scots ended up in Tennessee and Kentucky as the hills/mountains were familiar to the highlanders.

The pipes are a big part of the folk music, and in Irish music as well.

The music of Scotland ,and the old language Gaelic originally came from Ireland ,brought over by the monks who came first to Iona to convert the 'heathen' Picts , a very savage people , who had put fear into the Romans , so that they never could conquer the country ,and Hadrian had to build a wall .
The difference in the size of pipes comes from the fact, that while in Ireland which is relatively flat , the pipes are mainly 'musical' , while the Scottish pipes are a way of communicating to each other over mountain ranges , and the noise they make is formidable .

 

[fat wee robin]

Hi, my grandad was Scottish, on my mother’s side. A good starting point is to find out what clan your family were part of and then get in touch with the society that currently represents that clan, most if not all clans have one.
I should warn you though, pretty much everyone with any Scottish heritage has a story in the family that they are descended from such and such a royal person.
Scotland’s monarch, as part of the United Kingdom, is Queen Elizabeth.

By the way it’s a beautiful place to visit,

Tom

Most Scots are republicans , and if they were to choose their monarchy it would be of the Stewart dynasty ,the real heirs ,not this lot, who are illegitimate , and came via Germany .

Culloden 1745/6 ,was the last battle fought to keep Scotland in the hands of the true monarchy . Afterwards the evil brother of George ,the Duke of Cumberland sent in the English troops to put to the sword every boy of 15yrs+, to make sure that the next generations would not be rising up again .
After that they burned down houses,and drove out the locals onto the 'rocks ' to make way for sheep ,which was more profitable .
As a result , many Scots left for the Americas .
The 'rocks ' being islands like Lewis , Barra , Isla ,Harris and so on . Donald Trumps mother came from a crofting family in Lewis ,poor in money ,but rich in
spirit ,like so many .

 

[Tom 1]

Most Scots are republicans , and if they were to choose their monarchy it would be of the Stewart dynasty ,the real heirs ,not this lot, who are illegitimate , and came via Germany .

Culloden 1745/6 ,was the last battle fought to keep Scotland in the hands of the true monarchy . After wards the evil brother of George ,the Duke of Cumberland sent in the English troops to put to the sword every boy of 15yrs+ to make sure that the next generations would not be rising up again .
After that they burned down houses,and drove out the locals onto the 'rocks ' to make way for sheep ,which was more profitable .
As a result , many Scots left for the Americas .

Maybe most Scots are Republicans? I don’t know, I’d be interested what your source is. I don’t have any particular feelings about it, I was just passing that on as info, as it is the case that Elizabeth is the current monarch of the UK. Are any royal families legitimate? I think that depends what you mean, and how far back you go. The installation of a monarch has often meant the overthrowing or denial of a different claim. Who is/was ‘legitimate’ and by what criteria is a broad subject. Certainly I’d agree the clearing of the highlands was a nasty business

 

[fat wee robin]

Also yes bagpipes are still very much part of Scottish culture, as well as other Celtic cultures across Europe

Maybe most Scots are Republicans? I don’t know, I’d be interested what your source is. I don’t have any particular feelings about it, I was just passing that on as info, as it is the case that Elizabeth is the current monarch of the UK. Are any royal families legitimate? I think that depends what you mean, and how far back you go. The installation of a monarch has often meant the overthrowing or denial of a different claim. Who is/was ‘legitimate’ and by what criteria is a broad subject. Certainly I’d agree the clearing of the highlands was a nasty business

I have considerable knowledge of Scotland having lived there most of my life, and having taught there .
I want to Glasgow University at a time when the language was not recognised , the liiterature and history denied .
Some of my family are involved in S.N.P.etc .
Are you English by any chance ?
Whatever makes a monarchy legitimate , it must be that the monarch is of the same blood as the people they are in care of , not imported ,and ruling by force .That is dictatorship .

 

[Tom 1]

I have considerable knowledge of Scotland having lived there most of my life, and having taught there .
I want to Glasgow University at a time when the language was not recognised , the liiterature and history denied .
Some of my family are involved in S.N.P.etc .
Are you English by any chance ?
Whatever makes a monarchy legitimate , it must be that the monarch is of the same blood as the people they are in care of , not imported ,and ruling by force .That is dictatorship .

Well, good then you’ll know that the conflict at the time was largely about inter-clan politics and the Catholic/Protestant divide across the British Isles, and not blood lines (the Young Pretender, although of Scottish descent, was born and raised in Italy, and was related to the Hanovers). Both the Stuarts /Stewarts and their opponents intended to unite Scotland, England and Ireland under their rule, so either way you have imposition of a monarchy. The picture isn’t as simple as romantic fables might paint it, however I sense you are looking for an argument here so I’ll back out and let you have the last word,

Peace,

Tom

 

[fat wee robin]

Well, good then you’ll know that the conflict at the time was largely about inter-clan politics and the Catholic/Protestant divide across the British Isles, and not blood lines (the Young Pretender, although of Scottish descent, was born and raised in Italy, and was related to the Hanovers). Both the Stuarts /Stewarts and their opponents intended to unite Scotland, England and Ireland under their rule, so either way you have imposition of a monarchy. The picture isn’t as simple as romantic fables might paint it, however I sense you are looking for an argument here so I’ll back out and let you have the last word,

Peace,

Tom

I have no illusions about royalty of any kind .You did not answer my question as to whether or not you were English ,and if you are ,yes I do not wish to discuss with you .As usual you produce a red herring to avoid discussing the balck and white side of your history in Ireland and Scotland , as elsewhere .I wonder do you speak Roumanian or impose your language on 'them' as per habitude .

No it is not me who is looking for an 'argument' , but having honest discussion ,but then that means 'argument ' to an English person .How dare anyone challenge you !!!.
The French call England perfidious Albion , and for good reason . Maybe as a Christian, you could own up some time ?

 

[NIrelandGillian]

The music of Scotland ,and the old language Gaelic originally came from Ireland ,brought over by the monks who came first to Iona to convert the 'heathen' Picts , a very savage people who had put fear into the Romans , so that they never could conquer the country and Hadrian had to build a wall .
The difference in the size pipes comes from the fact that while in Ireland which is relatively flat the pipes are mainly 'musical' ,the Scottish pipes are a way of communicating to each other over mountain ranges , and the noise they make is formidable .

I didn’t know that fact about Scottish bagpipes. They’re very popular here in Northern Ireland.

Gillian

 

[fat wee robin]

I didn’t know that fact about Scottish bagpipes. They’re very popular here in Northern Ireland.

Gillian

I didn’t know that fact about Scottish bagpipes. They’re very popular here in Northern Ireland.

Gillian

Northern Ireland did not exist until 1921,as it was part of Ireland until then .The North was 'planted ' by Southern Scots who are a different people than the western highlanders ,who are /were Celts and spoke Gaelic .
If you read at all Walter Scotts novels are useful to understand Scotland .

 

[Francis Drake]

The French call England perfidious Albion , and for good reason . Maybe as a Christian, you could own up some time ?

Yes, the French call England Perfidious Albion.
That would be the same French who after their surrender to Germany in WW2, created the vassal state Vichy Government in the southern part of France.
The same French, whose Prime Minister Pierre Laval went cap in hand to Hitler and begged that the French air force could join the Luftwaffe in bombing London.

The problem with the French is that the English have beaten them too many times, and delivered them from tyranny too many times. They still hate Britain for that.

 

[Francis Drake]

Whatever makes a monarchy legitimate , it must be that the monarch is of the same blood as the people they are in care of , not imported ,and ruling by force .That is dictatorship .

But you would have been happy for your Bonnie Prince Charlie to invade England and violently steal the throne.
Wee Charlie was intent on bringing back the Catholic Church to England, along with its usual murderous tactics. Having thrown Roman rule out decisively, and destroyed the Spanish Armada, England was unlikely to tolerate such tyranny again.

Charlie was descended from James 6th Scotland who after the death of Elizabeth 1st of England was invited to take the English throne (ie. James 1st and 6th). He was a protestant. After James 1st, there was a steady decline in the Stuart monarchy leading to the civil war and Charles the 1st's execution by Parliamentary forces.
Charles 1st was a tyrant who deserved what he got. So did the Bonnie Prince later on at Culloden.
The point being, the oft stated animosity of Scotsmen against England, as if we invaded and usurped the Scottish throne, is utterly back to front. It was a Scottish king who was invited to reign in England, and a later Scottish king who created the Act of Union which brought the two together legally. (And in doing so England saved Scotland from bankruptcy!)

 

[JackRT]

Ask God to forgive ... ,and give up this motto , "Never apologise ,admit nothing " .

I did not know that Donald Trump was English.

 

[Francis Drake]

Just to change the course of the conversation a little, have a read of this, the Declaration of Arbroath, dated 1320.

http://www.rampantscotland.com/know/blknow_arbroath.htm

Go read the link, but the following is an excerpt from the document which is addressed to the pope.
What is most revealing is the direct link claimed between the people of Scotland and the lost northern tribes of Israel. We must not forget that the northern tribes were taken into captivity by the Assyrians long before Judah was taken by Babylon. Judah returned, but Israel did not return but apparently migrated northwards through the Caucasian mountains.

You will note amusingly, that they also claim to have expelled the Britons from the land!


Most holy Father and Lord, we know and gather from ancient acts and records, that in every famous nation this of Scotland hath been celebrated with many praises: This nation having come from Scythia the greater, through the Tuscan Sea and the Hercules Pillars, and having for many ages taken its residence in Spain in the midst of a most fierce people, could never be brought in subjection by any people, how barbarous soever: And having removed from these parts, above 1,200 years after the coming of the Israelites out of Egypt, did by many victories and much toil obtain these parts in the West which they still possess, having expelled the Britons and entirely rooted out the Picts, notwithstanding of the frequent assaults and invasions they met with from the Norwegians, Danes, and English; And these parts and possessions they have always retained free from all manner of servitude and subjection, as ancient histories do witness.

This kingdom hath been governed by an uninterrupted succession of 113 kings, all of our own native and royal stock, without the intervening of any stranger.

The true nobility and merits of those princes and people are very remarkable, from this one consideration (though there were no other evidence for it) that the King of Kings, the Lord Jesus Christ, after His Passion and Resurrection, honoured them as it were the first (though living in the outmost ends of the earth) with a call to His most Holy Faith: Neither would our Saviour have them confirmed in the Christian Faith by any other instrument than His own first Apostle in calling (though in rank the second or third) St Andrew, the most worthy brother of the Blessed Peter, whom He would always have to be over us, as our patron or protector.

 

[NIrelandGillian]

Northern Ireland did not exist until 1921,as it was part of Ireland until then .The North was 'planted ' by Southern Scots who are a different people than the western highlanders ,who are /were Celts and spoke Gaelic .
If you read at all Walter Scotts novels are useful to understand Scotland .[/QUOTE

Yes, I know that Northern Ireland only came into being in 1921. I think most people here know that.

I do read - a lot - and currently I am reading The Flight of the Heron, which is filling in the gaps in my education on the Jacobite Rebellion - I was off sick the first day it was taught to the class and I never did acquire an understanding of it. I haven't read any of Walter Scott's novels - would you recommend any in particular?

Gillian

 

[fat wee robin]

Gillian ,
I like so many but "Rob Roy McGeregor "' who was a real rebel) is a wonderful story which is a wonderful way to get an overall picture of life after Culloden and is less sad than some ,like "Waverley ", which gives you a very good idea of the Celtic clan system which still existed in western Scotland ,while it's originators from Ireland had been destroyed by brute force from Cromwell onward .
His biographical 'novel' "The blue heaven bends over all" ,by Jane Oliver ", helps to understand his life and works .
Yes ,one of the greatest pleasures ,good books !

Kenny's of Galway send books free . My source for most of my books .

 

[Naomi4Christ]

My family and I were born in the United States BUT my ancestors were from Scotland, and my grandmother tells me that Queen Mary of Scots was an ancestor of mine. They were from Scotland, but some generations ago migrated to the United States and I was lucky enough to be born in Florida, a place I really like because its so tropical and has lovely beaches. I was born on the Space Coast, in Palm Bay, near Cape Canaveral when the space shuttle program was still going on (and I am a huge fan of the space shuttle programs!). Its a wicked cool place to be born I'll tell you that. My childhood was a blast.

Although I don't think we have any rights or claims to thrones nowadays. Scotland is not a monarchy anymore, is it?

I know a little bit about the late Queen but I don't know much about my ancestral home other than what I have seen in pictures, I have never even been there.

They like bagpipes, right? Or is that just a stereotype?

Are you from Scotland? What is it like?

Queen Elizabeth is the queen of Scotland and the Royal Family are held in the same high regard as the rUK.

Bagpipes are very much part of the Highland revival, spearheaded by Sir Walter Scott. They are not a particular historical tradition of the Lowlands or Borders, but the sense of Scottishness is growing, even in the central belt. You can’t walk down the Royal Mile without hearing the skill of the pipes. They are very lucrative in the tourist trade.

Do visit Scotland. You won’t regret it.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

My family and I were born in the United States BUT my ancestors were from Scotland, and my grandmother tells me that Queen Mary of Scots was an ancestor of mine. They were from Scotland, but some generations ago migrated to the United States and I was lucky enough to be born in Florida, a place I really like because its so tropical and has lovely beaches. I was born on the Space Coast, in Palm Bay, near Cape Canaveral when the space shuttle program was still going on (and I am a huge fan of the space shuttle programs!). Its a wicked cool place to be born I'll tell you that. My childhood was a blast.

Although I don't think we have any rights or claims to thrones nowadays. Scotland is not a monarchy anymore, is it?

I know a little bit about the late Queen but I don't know much about my ancestral home other than what I have seen in pictures, I have never even been there.

They like bagpipes, right? Or is that just a stereotype?

Are you from Scotland? What is it like?

Queen Elizabeth is the queen of Scotland and the Royal Family are held in the same high regard as the rUK.

Bagpipes are very much part of the Highland revival, spearheaded by Sir Walter Scott. They are not a particular historical tradition of the Lowlands or Borders, but the sense of Scottishness is growing, even in the central belt. You can’t walk down the Royal Mile without hearing the skirl of the pipes. They are very lucrative in the tourist trade.

Do visit Scotland. You won’t regret it.