Curious about Catholisism

[AtlasDM]

Almost three years ago I willingly went to church for the first time. Before I had only went to church once a year when my scout troop made their required appearance at the local Catholic Church that sponsors it. Other than that I've only been to a handfull of other churches. Shortly after going to a different church (some call it Baptist some non-denominational) I was on fire for Christ and saved. The church I go to now, is quite different from the Catholic church I've been to and I have some questions that I can't seem to get out of my mind. Any help with these would be appreciated. Here they are:

1) Why is Catholic church so much more showy than other churches? The building itself seems to be crowded by expensive finery like huge gold candlabras and giant bible with a cover made of gold and even the clergy dress in fancy looking garments.

The church I go to is very spartan in comparison. It has pews, a raised altar, and a section for the band. There isn't anything grandiose about the place at all.

2) Why does service in a Catholic church seem like it's scripted? I felt that the act of everyone chanting the same thing in response to the priest made the responses seem scripted and inscincere. Am I missing something?

3) What is the basis for praying to saints? I honestly do not understand how someone can pray to the dead instead of praying to Jesus or God Himself. Also, I was under the impression that a saint is just a person who has gone to Heaven. I get the impression from Catholics that their saints are somehow more important than any old person in heaven.

4) Lastly, what is the biblical basis for the church hierarchy and the counsels that determine church practice? I have a bit of trouble with councils and so forth creating rules of sorts. In my mind, it's sort of like saying God didn't do enough by giving us His Word.

Sorry this was so long, but I feel like I need to get a better understanding of my Catholic brothers in Christ and this seems like the plae to alk about the issues I have.

Thank you for your time.

 

[icxn]

Actually the best place to ask your questions is here:

http://www.christianforums.com/f26-one-bread-one-body-catholic.html

 

[Veritas]

Actually the best place to ask your questions is here:

http://www.christianforums.com/f26-one-bread-one-body-catholic.html

I second this motion. Our inquisitive friend here isn't likely to get accurate nor charitable answer in this hostile environment.

 

[plum]

I agree OBOB is a great place to ask questions directed towards Catholics alone.

 

[GraceInHim]

Currently we cannot move threads to other forums. I will move this thread to our sub-forum denomination specific theology. If the member would like to, he can re-post this in OBOB as stated above in a link by another member.

Moving thread to continue this discussion.

 

[Renton405]

Almost three years ago I willingly went to church for the first time. Before I had only went to church once a year when my scout troop made their required appearance at the local Catholic Church that sponsors it. Other than that I've only been to a handfull of other churches. Shortly after going to a different church (some call it Baptist some non-denominational) I was on fire for Christ and saved. The church I go to now, is quite different from the Catholic church I've been to and I have some questions that I can't seem to get out of my mind. Any help with these would be appreciated. Here they are:

1) Why is Catholic church so much more showy than other churches? The building itself seems to be crowded by expensive finery like huge gold candlabras and giant bible with a cover made of gold and even the clergy dress in fancy looking garments.

The church I go to is very spartan in comparison. It has pews, a raised altar, and a section for the band. There isn't anything grandiose about the place at all.

2) Why does service in a Catholic church seem like it's scripted? I felt that the act of everyone chanting the same thing in response to the priest made the responses seem scripted and inscincere. Am I missing something?

3) What is the basis for praying to saints? I honestly do not understand how someone can pray to the dead instead of praying to Jesus or God Himself. Also, I was under the impression that a saint is just a person who has gone to Heaven. I get the impression from Catholics that their saints are somehow more important than any old person in heaven.

4) Lastly, what is the biblical basis for the church hierarchy and the counsels that determine church practice? I have a bit of trouble with councils and so forth creating rules of sorts. In my mind, it's sort of like saying God didn't do enough by giving us His Word.

Sorry this was so long, but I feel like I need to get a better understanding of my Catholic brothers in Christ and this seems like the plae to alk about the issues I have.

Thank you for your time.

You know, this sounds like another hidden attempt to bash the Catholic Church..You make this arbitrary comparision of the 'rich snobby' catholic church to your so-called 'humble faithful' baptist church. I really dont like the tone of this post.. We catholic's have told protestants many MANY times till we are blue in the face about apostolic succession and what was handed down to us. Protestants simply won't listen to this and then instead continue to bash our church over and over again..Its pretty easy to find out what you want on the catholic church.. But dont start with the 'why do you pray to saints' and our other traditions we hold on to, im sure most catholics have had it up to 'here'*raises hand in air* with that.

 

[metherion]

On the other hand, if you really are looking for answers I might be able to help a bit here.

To question 1, the showiness of the Church is, among other things, to show respect. In the OT, The ark of the Coveneant, the Temple, etc. where all very brightly furnished. In the NT, among other things, people slathered expensive oil on Jesus' feet at least once, He was given gold by the Wise Men, and (if I remember correctly) a rich man gave up his tomb for Jesus. These things all show respect, and do it with things of earthly value. We also like things bright and colorful when we pray, and having bright, shiny things with lots of colors helps that. After all, we should be HAPPY that Christ has come to give us everlasting life and redemption. In some of the Easter Services, the Church is dulled down, and many ornaments removed to show sorrow at Christ's death.

2. Yes, to a degree it is scripted. This serves several purposes. It makes it easy for newcomers to learn. It helps make sure everyone states the same beliefs. It helps make sure that travelers can find a reassuring familiarity whenever the go to Mass somewhere different.
It really isn't hollow and insincere. Just different. It may feel hollow and insincere to someone from outside, just as some services on the outside may seem extravagantly showy and hollow to some Catholics.

3. The Saints are people God has taken unto Himself. They are Holy men and women who have done great things for God. They are living souls, in the majesty and joy of Heaven. We don't really pray 'to' them, we pray 'through' them. We ask them to pray for us. We ask them for help. We may also ask Jesus Himself for help, or pray directly to Him (when we pray outside of Mass, even when praying through the Saints, we almost always start and end with the Sign of the Cross, a prayer to the Trinity.). There is no difference between my praying to a Saint to ask his or her help and my walking up to you and asking you to pray for me.

4. Well, I have been a bad Catholic and not read my Catechism and other stuff recently, so I don't quite remember.
However, my best explanation, by NO MEANS OFFICIAL, is this;
Different people have different gifts. Not everybody can tell what gifts they have, but groups of people can usually identify someone else's gift with God's aid. The higher ups in the Church Hierarchy are those with the gift of leadership and interpretation and whatnot, as recognized by those around and before them, and they by those around and before them, so on and so forth until the Apostles, told by Jesus. Sometimes people who don't have a gift try to assume to roles saved for those who do and go creating misinterpretation and theological chaos. The Councils and stuff would then be those recognized to have the correct gifts to rectify such measures getting together and doing it. The hierarchy helps keep a framework in place so that those with the gifts and the calling can help keep the framework in place once the current people are gone.
But then again, I might be completely wrong.

Metherion

 

[AtlasDM]

Metherion, thank you for answering my questions. I'm grateful that you took the time to explain some of Catholicism to me.

Renton405, I apologize if my curiosity came accross in a manner that you find offensive. I was not trying to imply that I go to a "humble faithful" church and you go to a "rich snobby" one. I just questioned the reason for difference between the two.

To everyone else, thank you for your suggestion to post on another board. However, the last two questions I have are bound to cause trouble with some so I will save them for another time and place.

 

[a_ntv]

Trying some answers:

1) Why is Catholic church so much more showy than other churches? The building itself seems to be crowded by expensive finery like huge gold candlabras and giant bible with a cover made of gold and even the clergy dress in fancy looking garments.

Well, a Catholic church (=building) is not a meeting room or a theater: here is kept the Eucharist, the very actual Body of Him: so nothing is too much for Him.
Anyway usually candlabrs are not gold, but simply yellow paint....
The fashion furniture of churches change a lot from church to church, country to country, age to age

2) Why does service in a Catholic church seem like it's scripted? I felt that the act of everyone chanting the same thing in response to the priest made the responses seem scripted and inscincere. Am I missing something?

Because God know already what we have in our mind, so it is not important to find always new ways....
At a birthday we always sing 'happy birthday to you..': the important is the heart, not new expressions
And the liturgy is old of many centuries: the same words have been repeated equal fromthe very Early Church: why change them?

3) What is the basis for praying to saints? I honestly do not understand how someone can pray to the dead instead of praying to Jesus or God Himself. Also, I was under the impression that a saint is just a person who has gone to Heaven. I get the impression from Catholics that their saints are somehow more important than any old person in heaven.

Yes, a saint is simply just a person who has gone to Heaven.
Christ won the death, so there is no more the wall between us and them: we are all the same family.
We speak at them as we can speak to our living parents..
P.S. attenction to the words: we pray and worship only the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. We speak we the saints and with Mary.

4) Lastly, what is the biblical basis for the church hierarchy and the counsels that determine church practice? I have a bit of trouble with councils and so forth creating rules of sorts. In my mind, it's sort of like saying God didn't do enough by giving us His Word.

Ad instance the Church hierarchy defined which books are part of the Bible...
Anyway from the very beginning of the Early Christianity all Churches were structured in Bishops/Priest/Deacons and laity: this structure is untouched not only in the CC, but also in EO and OO and ACOE Churches: is it as old a the Christianity.