Culpability in the mass genocide of Native Americans (US)

Lik3

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Were those Americans of European descent the only ones who took part in the genocide of Native Americans in this country? Should other Native Americans and Black Americans share any culpability in what ended up happening to them? Many soldiers, especially in the Union, blacks served as soldiers. Also, it was the US Army who were also culpable in what happened to Native Americans at Wounded Knee especially. Many hundreds of years ago, there millions of Amerindian people at least throughout all of the Americas, particularly in the Caribbean and Latin America. In the US, less than 300,000 of them were left by about 1900.

From data taken from historynewsnetwork.org, here is the official data:
Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history."

The sweeping charge of genocide against the Indians became especially popular during the Vietnam war, when historians opposed to that conflict began drawing parallels between our actions in Southeast Asia and earlier examples of a supposedly ingrained American viciousness toward non-white peoples. The historian Richard Drinnon, referring to the troops under the command of the Indian scout Kit Carson, called them"forerunners of the Burning Fifth Marines" who set fire to Vietnamese villages, while in The American Indian: The First Victim (1972), Jay David urged contemporary readers to recall how America’s civilization had originated in"theft and murder" and"efforts toward . . . genocide."
- See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302#sthash.LvR75Nji.dpuf "


I find it sickening that genocide occurs anywhere much less the US. It is also quite sad that many Natives who were once living in the entire country were put into reservations. Was it true that Native Americans were not considered citizens in their own land? TBH, as badly as we as black Americans were treated, there are millions of us, making us between 10-15% of the US population (notwithstanding the mass "genocide" of the abortion industry IMO). Native Americans are struggling culturally and make up less than 1% of the American population, not to gloss over or lessen what happened to specifically black Americans. I would like for you to correct me and the bolded data wrong, if we are wrong.
 

Quid est Veritas?

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Some points:

We don't know how many Native Americans there were before the arrival of Europeans. Estimates range from highs of 200 million to lows of 10 million for the entire precolumbian America (North and South, not US). So it can be construed to be much worse or better than it really was, we just don't have a way to gauge the numbers accurately.

Much of the decline in numbers was due to European diseases such as Smallpox and not really therefore conscious genocide. Although there were attempts to spread smallpox intentionally to Indians such as at the siege of Fort Pitt, but these were few and far between.

The US goverment actively deposed native populations and drove them from their land, but these were for capitalist aims and not racist ones. They wanted to control and exploit the land, not kill the people necessarily, although they did resort to this with 'troublesome' groups.

Indian tribes were not considered US citizens until 1924, which was the reason that the US goverment could enter into treaties with them as they were autonomous entities. This allowed the goverment to treat them quite harshly however, most notably the Trail of Tears, without contravening US or international law.

The US treated their natives poorly and occasionally massacred them during the Indian wars and thought them a nuisance that should be accultured away. US actions fulfil the criteria for genocide as defined by the UN. In their defence though, Australia and other places were doung equally horrible things and the goal was not the destruction or death of the populations per se, but to Civilise them. While to us this seems an abhorrent goal in and of itself, we can't impose our modern ethical ideas on our ancestors. They usually weren't monsters and often committed unacceptable acts by modern standards for what they thought was the native's best interests. The so-called White Man's Burden. It would be unfair to retroactively call them all genocidaires, when in reality only a very small percentage really were.
 
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Lik3

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Thanks for your reply. Having said that, there may be people on this thread who may (or may not) disagree with you. That is the beauty of this website due to the diversity of religious, cultural, and historical beliefs. I do agree that like the AAs, NAs were also treated poorly and the US broke many a treaty. That sounds very racist to me not the mention that many Native American children were being "civilized" by the ways of the white Americans.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Thanks for your reply. Having said that, there may be people on this thread who may (or may not) disagree with you. That is the beauty of this website due to the diversity of religious, cultural, and historical beliefs. I do agree that like the AAs, NAs were also treated poorly and the US broke many a treaty. That sounds very racist to me not the mention that many Native American children were being "civilized" by the ways of the white Americans.
Yes, very racist indeed. Our ancestors weren't perfect and it would be anachronistic to apply modern ideas to them. They weren't necessarily bad because they thought in a different manner.
 
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Lik3

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Interesting indeed. I guess that is also what I like about this forum. It is interesting, yet at times very informative. About this topic, though. I am saddened that any racial injustice and genocide occurred in this country, much less any country. But what about the tragic story of what happened to some of the Natives genocide happen as a result of George Custer?
 
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Shiloh Raven

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And then there is the "Doctrine of Discovery" --> http://www.nyym.org/?q=doc_of_disc_factsheet

And this 'Doctrine of Discovery' later influenced a Supreme Court ruling in 1823. The ruling was that the Indian nations did not have title to their lands because they were not Christians. It further stated that the first Christian nations to discover an area of heathen lands had absolute title. Native Americans were only allowed "right of occupancy" in their own tribal lands. But that did not last long because entire tribes were forcibly removed and herded like cattle in death marches to live on barren scraps of wasteland.
 
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JackRT

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And this 'Doctrine of Discovery' later influenced a Supreme Court ruling in 1823. The ruling was that the Indian nations did not have title to their lands because they were not Christians. It further stated that the first Christian nations to discover an area of heathen lands had absolute title. Native Americans were only allowed "right of occupancy" in their own tribal lands. But that did not last long because entire tribes were forcibly removed and herded like cattle in death marches to live on barren scraps of wasteland.

Right up to the present day the nations of the Americas have regarded treaties with their aboriginal peoples in much the same way that Donald Trump regards treaties like NATO and NORAD and NAFTA ----- i.e. trash that can be tossed aside at will.
 
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ScottA

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Were those Americans of European descent the only ones who took part in the genocide of Native Americans in this country? Should other Native Americans and Black Americans share any culpability in what ended up happening to them? Many soldiers, especially in the Union, blacks served as soldiers. Also, it was the US Army who were also culpable in what happened to Native Americans at Wounded Knee especially. Many hundreds of years ago, there millions of Amerindian people at least throughout all of the Americas, particularly in the Caribbean and Latin America. In the US, less than 300,000 of them were left by about 1900.

From data taken from historynewsnetwork.org, here is the official data:
Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history."

The sweeping charge of genocide against the Indians became especially popular during the Vietnam war, when historians opposed to that conflict began drawing parallels between our actions in Southeast Asia and earlier examples of a supposedly ingrained American viciousness toward non-white peoples. The historian Richard Drinnon, referring to the troops under the command of the Indian scout Kit Carson, called them"forerunners of the Burning Fifth Marines" who set fire to Vietnamese villages, while in The American Indian: The First Victim (1972), Jay David urged contemporary readers to recall how America’s civilization had originated in"theft and murder" and"efforts toward . . . genocide."
- See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302#sthash.LvR75Nji.dpuf "


I find it sickening that genocide occurs anywhere much less the US. It is also quite sad that many Natives who were once living in the entire country were put into reservations. Was it true that Native Americans were not considered citizens in their own land? TBH, as badly as we as black Americans were treated, there are millions of us, making us between 10-15% of the US population (notwithstanding the mass "genocide" of the abortion industry IMO). Native Americans are struggling culturally and make up less than 1% of the American population, not to gloss over or lessen what happened to specifically black Americans. I would like for you to correct me and the bolded data wrong, if we are wrong.
As nations go, it would be most fair to ask if the Native American nations lived in harmony, or whether they too did much like the European nations during that time of history, and would commonly conquer other neighboring nations?

I suspect that this is just one of many things that history allows us to look back at in horror, that was actually just common for the time. And we only look back now in horror because we have changed - which is good.
 
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mmksparbud

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Unfortunately, this has happened everywhere. The Spaniards were horrible. Everywhere they went they just decimated the indigenous peoples. Of course---Christians were no better to other Christians!--Catholics slaughtered Protestants, and if Protestants gained power, they slaughtered the Catholics!! Muslims hate all other religions and slaughtered millions when they had control and wanted to rule the world---Every power hungry despot that has gained any sort of power ends up killing --Africa has been killing itself trying to gain control over others of their own kind.That is the human race for you--Some idiot wants a piece of land someone else has and they'll kill you for it. Whether it's 1/4 of an acre or a whole country, doesn't matter. Europeans came over for religious freedom and proceeded to try to force their religion on everyone else that was here, a lot of them came over quite simply because Europe was overpopulated and their land and most of their wood supply was gone---they took one look at open spaces and our lumber and wanted it. That rather shocked me when I first heard of it. American Indians were not without fighting amongst themselves either--however, most of them were more into "coups" to prove their bravery than wiping out each other. Though there were a few tribes who were more into killing than coups. And the Aztecs and Mayan were no angels. I can't help but wonder why God ever loved us!! He's got to be as fed up with us as He was at the time of Noah when violence ruled the world.
 
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Lik3

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Unfortunately, this has happened everywhere. The Spaniards were horrible. Everywhere they went they just decimated the indigenous peoples. Of course---Christians were no better to other Christians!--Catholics slaughtered Protestants, and if Protestants gained power, they slaughtered the Catholics!! Muslims hate all other religions and slaughtered millions when they had control and wanted to rule the world---Every power hungry despot that has gained any sort of power ends up killing --Africa has been killing itself trying to gain control over others of their own kind.That is the human race for you--Some idiot wants a piece of land someone else has and they'll kill you for it. Whether it's 1/4 of an acre or a whole country, doesn't matter. Europeans came over for religious freedom and proceeded to try to force their religion on everyone else that was here, a lot of them came over quite simply because Europe was overpopulated and their land and most of their wood supply was gone---they took one look at open spaces and our lumber and wanted it. That rather shocked me when I first heard of it. American Indians were not without fighting amongst themselves either--however, most of them were more into "coups" to prove their bravery than wiping out each other. Though there were a few tribes who were more into killing than coups. And the Aztecs and Mayan were no angels. I can't help but wonder why God ever loved us!! He's got to be as fed up with us as He was at the time of Noah when violence ruled the world.

Come to think of it, I wonder why God is so long suffering. Maybe it is about His timing and that all of us, whether we believe it or not are living according to His time table.
 
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blackribbon

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What happened with the Native Americans is no different than what happens when any society conquers another society. They come in and take over. Change the culture to the one of the conquers. Change the language and social standards and religion to that of the conquering society. They also try to erase the previous societies history and anything that would allow them to gain strength and rebel. This has been from the dawn of time...Romans conquering Europe and Asia...Mongols into China...Britain into Africa and India...and even American after it escaped rule of England (we drink coffee and not tea for this reason and there aren't many Anglican churches in the US). Europe cultures conquered the Native Americans ... sometimes by default but the European culture was the one that took over.

Are you ready to give your current house and property back to a Native American family or do you consider it "yours" now?
 
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