Crumpled Clothes on Sidewalk after Rapture?

[Dale]

A number of movies based on the idea of a future Rapture show crumpled clothes on a sidewalk or other places after the person disappears. This goes along with driver-less cars, pilot-less planes and so forth. This was done in the 2014 Left Behind movie with Nicholas Cage, for instance, and was well known before that movie came out.

It strikes me that no such image appears in the Bible. There are no images of crumpled, abandoned clothes in unexpected places or any other signs of a Rapture in the apocalytptic sectons of the Gospels. There are no such images in Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation or in parts of the epistles that discuss the end times.

No where in the Bible is there any mention that ships could be without their captains or their crews after this strange event.

Those who believe in a Rapture separate from the Second Coming are improvising. They claim to have extracted this idea from the Bible and follow it to its logical conclusions.

I haven’t found any sign of a Rapture apart from the Second Coming in the Bible. Isn’t the lack of any of the images which modern day Dispensationalists associate with the Rapture a sign that they are on the wrong track?

Dispensationalists tell us to expect a seven year gap between the Rapture and the actual Second Coming of Christ. If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming. This is contrary to Scripture, which plainly tells us that no one can know the day and hour of Christ’s future Coming.

 

[timewerx]

Actually, in the Bible, it is the wicked who are "raptured" as the Flood of Noah took away the wicked off the Earth.

The righteous remain and inherit the Earth and the Earth restored to its pristine state -before the fall of man.

I'm not kidding, read your Bible.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Dispensationalists tell us to expect a seven year gap between the Rapture and the actual Second Coming of Christ. If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming. This is contrary to Scripture, which plainly tells us that no one can know the day and hour of Christ’s future Coming.

Amen!

 

[HTacianas]

A number of movies based on the idea of a future Rapture show crumpled clothes on a sidewalk or other places after the person disappears. This goes along with driver-less cars, pilot-less planes and so forth. This was done in the 2014 Left Behind movie with Nicholas Cage, for instance, and was well known before that movie came out.

It strikes me that no such image appears in the Bible. There are no images of crumpled, abandoned clothes in unexpected places or any other signs of a Rapture in the apocalytptic sectons of the Gospels. There are no such images in Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation or in parts of the epistles that discuss the end times.

No where in the Bible is there any mention that ships could be without their captains or their crews after this strange event.

Those who believe in a Rapture separate from the Second Coming are improvising. They claim to have extracted this idea from the Bible and follow it to its logical conclusions.

I haven’t found any sign of a Rapture apart from the Second Coming in the Bible. Isn’t the lack of any of the images which modern day Dispensationalists associate with the Rapture a sign that they are on the wrong track?

Dispensationalists tell us to expect a seven year gap between the Rapture and the actual Second Coming of Christ. If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming. This is contrary to Scripture, which plainly tells us that no one can know the day and hour of Christ’s future Coming.

The idea of a "pre-tribulation rapture" is not found in the bible or anywhere in Christian history. It appeared among some protestant groups around 200 years ago.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's because it isn't a biblical doctrine. John Nelson Darby, the sectarian leader of the Plymouth Brethren, came up with it in the 19th century based on an Irish peasant's strange dreams.

 

[A Realist]

A number of movies based on the idea of a future Rapture show crumpled clothes on a sidewalk or other places after the person disappears. This goes along with driver-less cars, pilot-less planes and so forth. This was done in the 2014 Left Behind movie with Nicholas Cage, for instance, and was well known before that movie came out.

Here are a couple of interesting images from the creator of the Archie comic book series back in the 70's.....guess the "crumpled clothes" on the sidewalk hadn't quite caught on yet....LOL. They're zooming up to heaven fully clothed.

 

[keras]

Jesus warned us to not be deceived.
Seems that quite a few have been taken in by the false teachings of a 'rapture to heaven', before anything bad happens down here.

They think they are good enough to go to heaven before any Judgment. Jesus will Judge the nations at His Return, Matthew 25:31-34, and God will Judge everyone who has ever lived after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Two proofs refute the 'rapture' -
Jesus said such a thing was impossible; John 3:13, John 8:21-23, John 7:34, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10, +
We are told that God's people will be on earth during the end times. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7
And what it is that the Lord requires of us; To stand firm in our faith, being His witnesses and His Light to the nations. John 5:27, Matthew 5:14-16

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Dale]

Here are a couple of interesting images from the creator of the Archie comic book series back in the 70's.....guess the "crumpled clothes" on the sidewalk hadn't quite caught on yet....LOL. They're zooming up to heaven fully clothed.

Thank you for this information. Since Archie Comics started in 1942, I have read at least one issue, so I am not exactly an expert on Archie.

I was wondering if the Raptured go to heaven with their clothes on in Archie because naked people being taken up would be too risque for a comic book?

 

[Dale]

Actually, in the Bible, it is the wicked who are "raptured" as the Flood of Noah took away the wicked off the Earth.

The righteous remain and inherit the Earth and the Earth restored to its pristine state -before the fall of man.

I'm not kidding, read your Bible.

You are perfectly correct that that “taken” means killed, whether we are talking about the Great Flood or the events that Jesus warned His followers about in Matthew 24. The Dispensationalists have “taken” and “left” completely backwards.


Let’s take a look at one of the favorite Scriptures of those who believe in a Rapture.


40 Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

Matthew 24: 40-42 RSV



What did the great commentators of the past think about this?


Here is what John Gill had to say about Matthew 24:40:



Matthew 24:40


Then shall two be in the field
About their proper business, of husbandry, ploughing, or sowing, or any other rural employment: the one shall be taken;
not by the preaching of the Gospel, into the kingdom of God, or Gospel dispensation; though such a distinction God makes, by the ministry of the word, accompanied by his Spirit and power; nor by angels, to meet Christ in the air, and to be introduced into his kingdom and glory; but by the eagles, the Roman army, and either killed or carried captive by them: and the other left;
not in a state of nature and unregeneracy, as many are, to whom the Gospel is preached; nor with devils at the last day, to be thrust down by them into the infernal regions; but by the Romans, being by some remarkable providence, or another, delivered out of their hands ...


Link

Matthew 24:40 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible




Here is what John Gill had to say about the next verse, Matthew 24:41, where we have two women grinding at the mill:


the one shall be taken, and the other left;
as before, one shall be taken by the Romans, and either put to death, or carried captive; and the other shall escape their hands, through the singular providence of God.


Link:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/matthew-24-41.html




John Gill believes that Jesus is talking about the Roman seige of Jerusalem that happened in AD 70. Those who are "taken" are killed or become captives of the Romans. Those who are "left" are fortunate enough to escape this fate.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Sigh...

 

[Mary Meg]

I was brought up believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture "by default"... it doesn't seem like anybody ever considered this isn't really taught in the Bible, or there might be other views...

In the "crumpled clothes" image... is the idea that people are ascending to heaven naked -- or, "in the blink of an eye," they receive their robe and crown? It sounds pretty undignified...

 

[Dale]

I was brought up believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture "by default"... it doesn't seem like anybody ever considered this isn't really taught in the Bible, or there might be other views...

In the "crumpled clothes" image... is the idea that people are ascending to heaven naked -- or, "in the blink of an eye," they receive their robe and crown? It sounds pretty undignified...

Well, you know the old adage that you come into the world naked and go out naked. Of course, that isn't in the Bible, it's just a saying, or an observation that it looks that way.

A Rapture separate from the Second Coming definitely isn't taught in the Bible. I grew up in a moderate Baptist Church, and when I graduated from High School I had never heard of a Rapture. In my experience, most Baptists had not heard of it until Hal Lindsay's The Late Great Planet Earth. The odd thing is that Lindsay did not actually lay out a case for a Rapture, he just assumed it is true. He said that some churches call it this and some churches call it that. But why believe it at all?

Where I live, local believers in a Rapture have told me, "You have to separate the Second Coming into two parts." Yes, a private, secret coming where Jesus snatches Christians away and a public coming, which is the one described in the Bible. But why separate it into two parts? People I've talked to on CF who believe in a Rapture don't know that it came from separating the Second Coming into two parts, they just grew being told that it's true.

 

[keras]

I was brought up believing in a pre-tribulation Rapture "by default"... it doesn't seem like anybody ever considered this isn't really taught in the Bible, or there might be other views...

This is the sad thing; many Christians are taught the 'rapture to heaven', as the only viable end times event for us.
Those preachers and teachers will have to answer for their lack of a balanced and complete scriptural exegesis on what the Prophets did actually tell us God has planned for His people in the last days.

As a result of so many people believing the false 'rapture' theory, they are simply not prepared for what will happen and when disaster strikes, as it surely will, Ezekiel 33:33, then they may renounce God, to their eternal loss.

 

[_Dave_]

It strikes me that no such image appears in the Bible. There are no images of crumpled, abandoned clothes in unexpected places or any other signs of a Rapture in the apocalytptic sectons of the Gospels. There are no such images in Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation or in parts of the epistles that discuss the end times.

The explanation is simple. It's because it doesn't happen that way.

Think of it like this:

In the accounts of Christ's ascension in Luke 24:50-51 and Acts 1:9-11 why don't the observers register their horror at seeing His manhood waving in the breeze as He ascends into the clouds?

It's simply because Christ was fully clothed.

It's a mistake, and unfair, to criticize the doctrinal beliefs on a whole group of believers based on some fictional, popular novels or movies.

I haven’t found any sign of a Rapture apart from the Second Coming in the Bible. Isn’t the lack of any of the images which modern day Dispensationalists associate with the Rapture a sign that they are on the wrong track?

Again, those are your words and shouldn't be interpolated to the beliefs of others.

Dispensationalists tell us to expect a seven year gap between the Rapture and the actual Second Coming of Christ. If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming. This is contrary to Scripture, which plainly tells us that no one can know the day and hour of Christ’s future Coming.

The "know not the time nor the hour" quote from Jesus refers to the rapture, not to His second coming. There are no signs precedent to the rapture; lots of signs leading up to his second coming. It's what Revelation is all about.

"If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming."

Absolutely.

God has made it very clear in Revelation when He announced the timing of the second coming from an absolute starting point to the end.

He says the second coming will be 3 1/2 years, 42 months or 1,260 days from the beginning of the Great Tribulation in the middle of the seven years when the antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel and sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple.

God breaks it down to the exact day. And you can believe that the Jews in Israel will know the exact day when this begins as they experience the horror, once again, of an evil ruler desecrating the most Holy of Holies.

It needs to be noted too, that nobody claims to know exactly how long a period of time there is between the rapture and when the seven years start. It could be immediately, and it could be 30 years later.

What we do know for sure is that the second coming countdown starts midway through the seven years after an indisputable horrific act by the antichrist. In other words, it will be like, "Today, CNN brings you video of the desecration ..." Then 1,260 days later Christ comes back.

 

[Dale]

The explanation is simple. It's because it doesn't happen that way.

Think of it like this:

In the accounts of Christ's ascension in Luke 24:50-51 and Acts 1:9-11 why don't the observers register their horror at seeing His manhood waving in the breeze as He ascends into the clouds?

It's simply because Christ was fully clothed.

It's a mistake, and unfair, to criticize the doctrinal beliefs on a whole group of believers based on some fictional, popular novels or movies.



Again, those are your words and shouldn't be interpolated to the beliefs of others.



The "know not the time nor the hour" quote from Jesus refers to the rapture, not to His second coming. There are no signs precedent to the rapture; lots of signs leading up to his second coming. It's what Revelation is all about.

"If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming."

Absolutely.

God has made it very clear in Revelation when He announced the timing of the second coming from an absolute starting point to the end.

He says the second coming will be 3 1/2 years, 42 months or 1,260 days from the beginning of the Great Tribulation in the middle of the seven years when the antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel and sets up the abomination of desolation in the temple.

God breaks it down to the exact day. And you can believe that the Jews in Israel will know the exact day when this begins as they experience the horror, once again, of an evil ruler desecrating the most Holy of Holies.

It needs to be noted too, that nobody claims to know exactly how long a period of time there is between the rapture and when the seven years start. It could be immediately, and it could be 30 years later.

What we do know for sure is that the second coming countdown starts midway through the seven years after an indisputable horrific act by the antichrist. In other words, it will be like, "Today, CNN brings you video of the desecration ..." Then 1,260 days later Christ comes back.

Dave: "There are no signs precedent to the rapture; lots of signs leading up to his second coming."


You say that there are no signs leading to the rapture. That's because there is no rapture, as most Christians believe today and all Christians believed for most of Christian history.

 

[Mary Meg]

*double take* Wait... @Dale and @_Dave_ ?

 

[Douggg]

Dispensationalists tell us to expect a seven year gap between the Rapture and the actual Second Coming of Christ. If this were true, as soon as the Rapture happened, anyone, including those who oppose Jesus Christ, could calculate the time of the Second Coming. This is contrary to Scripture, which plainly tells us that no one can know the day and hour of Christ’s future Coming.

What begins the 7 years is the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 by the Antichrist.

A pre-trib rapture is not what begins the 7 years. The rapture could take place today, but the 7 years may not begin until years later.

So, irrespective of the day the rapture takes place, it will be possible to know within a couple of days of when Jesus returns once the 7 years begin - because the confirmation of the covenant is the countdown start.

Not only that, but 45 days before Jesus returns, the entire world will see Jesus before the throne of God in the third heaven. It what causes the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus, to keep Him from executing judgment on them.

 

[Dale]

What begins the 7 years is the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 by the Antichrist.

A pre-trib rapture is not what begins the 7 years. The rapture could take place today, but the 7 years may not begin until years later.

So, irrespective of the day the rapture takes place, it will be possible to know within a couple of days of when Jesus returns once the 7 years begin - because the confirmation of the covenant is the countdown start.

Not only that, but 45 days before Jesus returns, the entire world will see Jesus before the throne of God in the third heaven. It what causes the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus, to keep Him from executing judgment on them.

Dougg,

We haven't talked in a while. You cite Daniel Chapter 9 and go on to talk about a rapture. No rapture of saints is mentioned in Daniel 9.

I'll show you what I found in Daniel 7.

18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, for ever and ever.’
Daniel 7: 18 RSV

Later in the same chapter:

27 And the kingdom and the dominion
and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;
their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
and all dominions shall serve and obey them.’
Daniel 7: 27 RSV


There is no rapture here, nothing about God taking His "saints" off the earth. Instead, they govern "all dominions" in God's name forever.

Switching to the NIV translation, just to be sure there is no mistake:

18 But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.’
Daniel 7:18 NIV

27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’
Daniel 7: 27-29 NIV

The NIV prefers "holy people" to "saints" but outside of that the meaning is the same. There is nothing here about God removing the "holy people" from the earth before the trouble starts. There is nothing about the "holy people" being taken to heaven and then coming back to rule the earth.

 

[Douggg]

We haven't talked in a while. You cite Daniel Chapter 9 and go on to talk about a rapture. No rapture of saints is mentioned in Daniel 9.

I agree the rapture is not referred to in Daniel 9. But what is in Daniel 9 is the confirming of the covenant for 7 years. That's what sets the countdown to Jesus's return in Revelation 19.

The rapture is a separate issue from Daniel 7 and Daniel 9.

It might take place before the 7 years begin. Or it may not.

When the rapture does have to happen is before the beginning of the Day of Lord which is triggered by the Antichrist by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

Sometime, in the middle of the 7 years, around 3 years into it.