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Cross-references between the DeuteroCanonicals (NOT Apocrypha!) and the New Testament

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by AHJE, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. AHJE

    AHJE & amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;

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    The following is a list proving that there are connections between the Deuterocanonical books (which are the Word of God) and the New Testament:

    That is, these books which are Divinely Inspired by God the Holy Spirit:

    - Tobit
    - Judith
    - Wisdom
    - Sirach
    - Baruch
    - 1 Maccabees
    - 2 Maccabees
    - and parts of Esther and Daniel


    I will start with these and later on I will post a few from time to time, ok?

    Again, these are the Deutero-Canonical Books (NOT the Apocrypha as some like to call it).

    _____________________________________________________________________

    * Jesus quotes from Tobit 7:18 when He calls His Father, "Lord of Heaven and earth" (Mt 11:25).

    * Mary follows Sirach 10:14 when she says God "has put down the mighty from their thrones" (Lk 1:52).

    * Elizabeth alludes to Judith 13:18 when she declares that Mary is most "blessed ... among women" (Lk 1:42).

    * Mark and Luke record the Sadducees' story about the seven brothers in Tobit 3:8 and Tobit 7:11. [See Mk 12:20; Lk 20:29]

    * James follows Sirach 29:10-11 in his teaching about laying up one's true treasure instead of silver and gold that will rust (see James 5:3).

    * The seven spirits before God in John's Revelation are the same seven angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One in Tobit 12:15 (see Rev 1:4).

    * Peter alludes to Wisdom 3:5-6 when he teaches that God will test us just as gold is tested by fire (see 1 Pet 1:6-7).

    * Paul follows Wisdom 5:17-20 when he charges us to take up the "armor of God," the "breastplate of righteousness," the "helmet of salvation" and the "shield of faith."[Eph 6:13-17] He borrows from Baruch 4:7 when he teaches that the pagans "sacrifice to demons and not to God."[1 Cor 10:20] And he quotes from 2 Maccabees 12:15, when he calls God the "one and only Sovereign."[1 Tim 6:15]

    * The author of Hebrews follows Sirach 25:22 when he tells us to strengthen our "drooping hands" and "weak knees" (Heb 12:12).

    * He also refers to 2 Maccabees 7:1-42, which is one of the most incredible stories of faith in Scripture, regarding the torture and murder of a mother and her children (see Heb 11:35).
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Source: (The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith, John Salza, pg. 16) ...
    This book has a Nihil Obstat by Rev. Michael Heintz/Censor Librorum and an Imprimatur by John M. D'Arcy/Bishop of Fort Wayne-South Bend (January 27, 2005)

    John Salza continues in page 17 ... "Of the approximately 350 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, about three hundred come from the Septuagint. Some non-Catholic scholars, to give their rejection of the Deuterocanon a more historical basis, argue that the Jews removed these books form their canon at the Council of Jamnia, about a century after Christ's Ascension. However, these Jewish councils also rejected the Church's New Testament canon, as well as the claim that Jesus Christ was the Messiah! Therefore, Christians cannot appeal to Jewish councils, which rejected the New Testament and Christianity as a whole, as a basis for making pronouncements about the Bible."

    Praised be the Holy Spirit.

    I hope this thread is helpful to everyone.

    May the Lord God give you all His Peace!

    A. H. J. E.
    After the Heart of Jesus Evangelist
     
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  2. rdcast

    rdcast Regular Member

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    Stepping out in total faith, they knew Jesus Christ's fresh revelations built on what came before them. They were the most courageous of men and women, who forged what we now take for granted, the Christian walk.
     
  3. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

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    The OP is one of the better posts I've seen on this subject.
     
  4. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    A bit of a stretch, I think.
     
  5. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I also think Christians should have them because they're a good historical resource. I don't think they should be considered scripture though.
     
  6. Godel

    Godel Guest

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    "Connections" are hardly enough to conclude divinely inspired. The use of one line does not endorse the entire book as divinely inspired.. it only endorses that one line as being true or having an application to what the apostle was writing. Paul quotes a couple pagan philosophers in his letters. Are we to then conclude that those philosophers' writings are also divinely inspired? That would be ridiculous.
     
  7. AHJE

    AHJE & amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;

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    As I have shown there is much more than "a couple" of quotes from the Deutero-Canonicals in the NT. This just lends all the more credibility of the Holy Catholic Church which maintains that the Apostles and the Early Church read them and used them as Sacred Writing (as the Holy Bible).

    Why should we believe Martin Luther, A MAN, who definitely didn't like certain doctrines of the Church (such as Purgatory) and which he knew was supported by the Book of Maccabees? [Let's not derail this thread please, ... it is not about Purgatory]

    These books were recognized as the Word of God all the way up to the Protestant movement. Why should anyone doubt that they are the Word of God after so many centuries of the faithful reading them? This is the part that I really don't understand. Let us be reasonable and attentive to the Holy Spirit.

    If the Holy Spirit did not inspire them ... wouldn't He let the Church know way before the 15th Century or so?


    God bless you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2012
  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The main point here is that for Jesus or Mary to have quoted from the Apocryphal books in no way makes them scripture. Many of us have quoted from various theologians or Shakespeare or writings like Mere Christianity without in any way intending to say that we consider them to be Holy Writ.

    And BTW, if Luther--the greatest Bible scholar of his time--was only a man, so were the guys who canonized the Scriptures in the fourth century.
     
  9. AHJE

    AHJE & amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;

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    Yes ... they were men ... Bishops, who were entrusted by Christ with the same authority as the Holy Apostles (who decided that circumcision was no longer necessary) ... that kind of Authority to say which Books are Canonical and which are not.

    Martin Luther may have known a few things about Scripture (twisted a few things also) ... but he did not have this kind of Ecclesiastical Authority.

    Martin Luther is not a Canonized Saint, my friends, ... he was a heretic who denied Purgatory, the Power of the Church to grant indulgences in virtue of the Keys entrusted by Christ to St. Peter ...

    If his was a movement that so-called "reformed" the Church ... I believe that God would have accompanied his "great" mission with signs and miracles to confirm that God was with him and supported his actions against the Holy and Ancient Church from the beginning.

    In fact, Martin Luther was a very troubled man psychologically or emotionally. Hopefully God will have mercy on him, ... but if ... IF he was saved at the moment of his death ... I personally would not be surprised if he is still in Purgatory.

    I am just saying it like it is ... I am not trying to offend anyone, ... but the truth is the truth and it must be spoken.

    Peace be with all.
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I guess he thought that making the right decision was more important than "pulling rank." But not everyone sees it the same way, obviously, with some folks holding to the idea that a bishop can never make a mistake until, of course, he crosses swords with the Vatican. Then all that you've said goes out the window.

    Not in YOUR church, you mean. ^_^
     
  11. Godel

    Godel Guest

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    That's just false.

    "As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine." - Jerome, introduction to the books of Solomon.

    It's got nothing to do with what Martin Luther says. It's about a critical analysis of the apocrypha and determining that it simply is not Scripture.
     
  12. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I knew you would start in on Luther.

    Thank God for Luther!!! The 95 Thesis sent the church reeling.

    These are not the words of a troubled man:

    Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen

    Those are the words of a man who was troubled about the churches abuse of selling indulgences.

    I will not get into this debate about your church.
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Of course. Attacking Luther is just a convenient diversion. What really matters is whether or not the Apocrypha belongs in the Bible, and that in turn is determined through an examination of those books themselves, their contents, whether the Jews considered them to be part of the Hebrew Bible, etc.
     
  14. L0NEW0LF

    L0NEW0LF Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod

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    I could pull up a Packers/Bears post or pre game interview with Aaron Rodgers, and find the words "Bears," "for," "good," "play," etc., and then say that Aaron Rodgers really wants to be a Chicago Bear because of these words. You can do this with anything is the point.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    True. Not only that, but you can then argue that because playing for the Bears is one way of earning a living, it means that Aaron Rodgers wants to be a bricklayer or a physician since, after all, those are professions that will earn you a living.
     
  16. AHJE

    AHJE & amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;

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    St. Jerome was and is a Saint and Doctor of Holy Mother Church and his inclications at the time were due to his inability to find any of the DeuteroCanonicals in the original Hebrew language. But later on he submitted his intellect and judgment to the Teaching Authority of the Church. This is why he is called SAINT Jerome. For he, for all of his God-given wisdom was not consumed by the disease of intellectual pride.

    Check this quote out:
    ______________________________________________________________________
    "As for Jerome, he’s a bizarre case. To understand where he stands, you have to realize that the early Christians didn’t view the canon as being exclusive. In other words, they didn’t think that once a canon existed, anything not in the canon was therefore uninspired. So a lot of early Christians thought it best to include only those books which everyone agreed upon. In Jerome’s case, he lived in Palestine, and was surrounding by a post-Christ Jewish culture which rejected the Deuterocanon. He, and some other Palestinian Catholics, preferred the then-uniform Hebrew Canon, apparently for this reason. However, Jerome elsewhere quotes from the Deuterocanon as inspired

    Additionally, Jerome did include the Deuterocanon at the Pope’s request in his translation of the Vulgate, suggesting that even though his gut feelings might have lead him in one direction, he was willing to submit to the teaching authority of the Church. This tendency to defer to the Bishop of Rome is seen also in Rufinus, one of Jerome’s fiercest opponents. Here’s what he had to say about the Church in Palestine and Jerome specifically, on the issue of the Dueterocanon:
    There has been from the first in the churches of God, and especially in that of
    Jerusalem, a plentiful supply of men who being born Jews have become Christians; and their perfect acquaintance with both languages and their sufficient knowledge of the law is shewn by their administration of the pontifical office. In all this abundance of learned men, has there been one who has dared to make havoc of the divine record handed down to the Churches by the Apostles and the deposit of the Holy Spirit? For what can we call it but havoc, when some parts of it are transformed, and this is called the correction of an error?

    For instance, the whole of the history of Susanna, which gave a lesson of chastity to the churches of God, has by him been cut out, thrown aside and dismissed. The hymn of the three children, which is regularly sung on festivals in the Church of God, he has wholly erased from the place where it stood. But why should I enumerate these cases one by one, when their number cannot be estimated?

    This, however, cannot be passed over. The seventy translators, each in their separate cells, produced a version couched in consonant and identical words, under the inspiration, as we cannot doubt, of the Holy Spirit; and this version must certainly be of more authority with us than a translation made by a single man under the inspiration of Barabbas.

    But, putting this aside, I beg you to listen, for example, to this as an instance of what we mean. Peter was for twenty-four years Bishop of the Church of Rome. We cannot doubt that, amongst other things necessary for the instruction of the church, he himself delivered to them the treasury of the sacred books, which, no doubt, had even then begun to be read under his presidency and teaching. What are we to say then? Did Peter the Apostle of Christ deceive the church and deliver to them books which were false and contained nothing of truth? Are we to believe that he knew that the Jews possessed what was true, and yet determined that the Christians should have what was false?

    But perhaps the answer will be made that Peter was illiterate, and that, though he knew that the books of the Jews were truer than those which existed in the church, yet he could not translate them into Latin because of his linguistic incapacity. What then! Was the tongue of fire given by the Holy Spirit from heaven of no avail to him? Did not the Apostles speak in all languages?


    (Rufinus, Apology of Rufinus, Book II, Chapter 38).

    It should be noted that Rufinus had an imperfect history himself: his visceral falling out with Jerome disgraced both men, and the two men wrote rather unbecoming things of one another. Additionally, his appeal to the 70 translators is misplaced: most moderns consider that almost certainly a myth. Nevertheless, his other points:
    that the overwhelming majority of Hebrew-speaking Jewish converts recognized the Deuterocanon as canonical,
    that this was the historic faith of the Church,
    that this was the faith of the Church in Rome specifically, having been set there by Peter as the city’s first Bishop, and
    that the decision to include the Deuterocanon was itself inspired by the Holy Spirit

    are all very solid arguments, in my opinion, and Rufinus’ position certainly represented that of the Church collective."

    _________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Shameless Popery: Search results for Jerome and OT Canon


    The Church has already determined it just as it determined that circumcision is no longer necessary for a gentile believer to come to Christ. Martin Luther is not the Teaching Authority of the Church ... that is my point ... and neither is Saint Jerome for that matter (but he is definitely in heaven). :)

    St. Jerome, Pray for us!
    In Christ, through Christ, and for Christ!
    In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
     
  17. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I praise God for that because there would have been no Reformation.

    As for Jerome...why does it not surprise me that the RCC is not wrong there?

    I can't wait to see Luther, Hus, Zwingli, and Calvin in heaven. Great men of God who stood with the cry Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, and Sola Gratia!!!

    The saints were set free!!! The scriptures were opened to the common man allowing him to read the word of God and know that we are justified by faith...a free gift of God through the Lord Jesus Christ.

    I wonder about Tetzel though...
     
  18. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

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    Once the whole Protestant vs. Catholic thingy gets rolling, its just about impossible to get to the bottom of this question. A lot of heat from both sides, but not a lot of light.

    That is one reason I prefer to discuss it with Orthodox folks.
     
  19. Godel

    Godel Guest

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    You post a very long quote, nice and all, but providing nothing that verifies anything said in it. Your point about teaching authority is interesting. Not because I agree, but because it exposes the huge flaw in Roman Catholocism - "teaching authority". Luke praised the Bereans - not because they blindly accepted anything that some "teaching authority" told them - but because they took everything Paul told them, and then checked the Scriptures themselves to see if Paul was right. They used their own discernment, and Luke praised them for it. But you are convinced that one must blindly accept whatever your church tells you, whether or not they can actually verify any of it. Luke thought the Bereans did things the right way - I can't help but believe that Luke's view is more accurate than yours.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2012
  20. AHJE

    AHJE & amp; amp; amp; amp; amp;

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    These who heard the preaching of St. Paul heard things about the Messiah and the books that they went to check for a confirmation of his words were the OT books most probably to read the Messianic Prophecies. St. Paul probably even refered to them in his preaching. This does not in any way indicate that they did not believe him.

    The Catholic Church does the same thing today ... she reads Sacred Writing TOGETHER with the Word of God in Divine [not human] Tradition (as Handed On from the Apostles).

    To criticize the Teaching Authority of the Church amounts to criticizing our Lord Jesus Christ who gave it. (see Mt. 28:19-20, Lk. 10:16)

    I wonder why this quote about the Bereans is often quoted without the light of the following verse which was so indicative of the ways of the Church:

    "They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles ..." (Acts 2:42, NAB)

    Praised be the Holy Spirit.
     
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