Which is greater?

  • Evolution accomodating Creation

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  • Creation accomodating Evolution

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  • Mu

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So you have two concepts, Creation and Evolution. This is fine, as long as you don't try to remove one or the other in the name of its opposite. The mistake is to think that one being right, the other is wrong. How do we navigate this? My suggestion, is to create a concept that specifically describes the attempt of one to accomodate or interact with the other. Creation wanting to serve the more greatly, I suggest putting Evolution first and forcing Creation to accomodate the first. Creation in part, needs to adapt to Evolution.

For this adaptation, I have coined the concept "Crea-volution" it is the idea, that Creation has a specific response asked of it, by Evolution. Creation needs to understand, Evolution. Creation needs to trust, Evolution. Creation needs to rework, Evolution. All these things change Creation's extenuation (in an Evolutionary way). Crea-volution, then, is an attempt not to avoid sacrifice, but to minimize it, where adaptation can make a greater impact, in the end. This is advantageous for Creation, because it makes possible greater diversity, of those things that Creation finds foundational.

The advantage of this concept, for Evolution, is that it describes the limitation of its prey, to change from what it has already manifest, being Creation. Crea-volution may accomodate some of what Evolution does, but it cannot accomodate everything. This is not a failing, it just means that once Evolution has been tolerated for what it is, it will be tolerated no further - the next generation must be free, or surrender to the current generation of Evolution is bankrupt and not able to be justified. It is then, an age old battle, to begin with to see how much Creation can Crea-evolve, before Evolution strikes to claim its part in nature's groaning. If it goes well, then well, if not, both will die out, as each resists difference being explored.

What do you think? He that hears to hear, let him hear?

Are you strong enough to accomodate Creation, as Creation is here accomodating Evolution?
 

Tolworth John

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Larniavc

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Hi there,

So you have two concepts, Creation and Evolution. This is fine, as long as you don't try to remove one or the other in the name of its opposite. The mistake is to think that one being right, the other is wrong. How do we navigate this? My suggestion, is to create a concept that specifically describes the attempt of one to accomodate or interact with the other. Creation wanting to serve the more greatly, I suggest putting Evolution first and forcing Creation to accomodate the first. Creation in part, needs to adapt to Evolution.

For this adaptation, I have coined the concept "Crea-volution" it is the idea, that Creation has a specific response asked of it, by Evolution. Creation needs to understand, Evolution. Creation needs to trust, Evolution. Creation needs to rework, Evolution. All these things change Creation's extenuation (in an Evolutionary way). Crea-volution, then, is an attempt not to avoid sacrifice, but to minimize it, where adaptation can make a greater impact, in the end. This is advantageous for Creation, because it makes possible greater diversity, of those things that Creation finds foundational.

The advantage of this concept, for Evolution, is that it describes the limitation of its prey, to change from what it has already manifest, being Creation. Crea-volution may accomodate some of what Evolution does, but it cannot accomodate everything. This is not a failing, it just means that once Evolution has been tolerated for what it is, it will be tolerated no further - the next generation must be free, or surrender to the current generation of Evolution is bankrupt and not able to be justified. It is then, an age old battle, to begin with to see how much Creation can Crea-evolve, before Evolution strikes to claim its part in nature's groaning. If it goes well, then well, if not, both will die out, as each resists difference being explored.

What do you think? He that hears to hear, let him hear?

Are you strong enough to accomodate Creation, as Creation is here accomodating Evolution?
Creationism is entirely unnecessary.
 
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Guy Threepwood

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I'd say academic science often explicitly tries to avoid adhering to any ideas that might be seen as friendly to a theistic view .e.g. the Big Bang being coined to mock the 'religious pseudoscience' of the universe having a creation event. The Cambrian explosion being written off as an artifact of an incomplete record, 'junk' DNA etc ...

In the end, framing the debate this way, putting up such resistance, only ends up underscoring all the theistic implications uncovered by rigorous scientific inquiry.

As one philosopher put it; the journey of the materialist is to scale the mountain of enlightenment, only to find a group of theologians waiting for him at the top.
 
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SkyWriting

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Hi there,

So you have two concepts, Creation and Evolution. This is fine, as long as you don't try to remove one or the other in the name of its opposite. The mistake is to think that one being right, the other is wrong. How do we navigate this? My suggestion, is to create a concept that specifically describes the attempt of one to accomodate or interact with the other. Creation wanting to serve the more greatly, I suggest putting Evolution first and forcing Creation to accomodate the first. Creation in part, needs to adapt to Evolution.

For this adaptation, I have coined the concept "Crea-volution" it is the idea, that Creation has a specific response asked of it, by Evolution. Creation needs to understand, Evolution. Creation needs to trust, Evolution. Creation needs to rework, Evolution. All these things change Creation's extenuation (in an Evolutionary way). Crea-volution, then, is an attempt not to avoid sacrifice, but to minimize it, where adaptation can make a greater impact, in the end. This is advantageous for Creation, because it makes possible greater diversity, of those things that Creation finds foundational.

The advantage of this concept, for Evolution, is that it describes the limitation of its prey, to change from what it has already manifest, being Creation. Crea-volution may accomodate some of what Evolution does, but it cannot accomodate everything. This is not a failing, it just means that once Evolution has been tolerated for what it is, it will be tolerated no further - the next generation must be free, or surrender to the current generation of Evolution is bankrupt and not able to be justified. It is then, an age old battle, to begin with to see how much Creation can Crea-evolve, before Evolution strikes to claim its part in nature's groaning. If it goes well, then well, if not, both will die out, as each resists difference being explored.

What do you think? He that hears to hear, let him hear?

Are you strong enough to accomodate Creation, as Creation is here accommodating Evolution?

Evolution exactly as God planned it. Not random at all.
 
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Shemjaza

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And yet I cease to find a reason to believe in Evolution, on its own.
A reason to accept evolution is that it is supported by the evidence and is a useful tool for understanding the physical world.

Intellectual suicide?

The bigger problem is your inability to understand when people get into discussions with you.
 
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Gottservant

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A reason to accept evolution is that it is supported by the evidence and is a useful tool for understanding the physical world.



The bigger problem is your inability to understand when people get into discussions with you.

I am unable to understand something for which there is no subtext at all - how rich!
 
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Shemjaza

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I am unable to understand something for which there is no subtext at all - how rich!
Before you attempt to analyse or define subtext of discussions you need to work on your ability to comprehend and communicate about the text itself.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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I am unable to understand something for which there is no subtext at all - how rich!
The biggest problem is your refusal to listen. You have been told many, many times that your definition of evolution is incorrect, yet you keep throwing it out there. Normally, that would be counted as trolling.
 
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Gottservant

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Before you attempt to analyse or define subtext of discussions you need to work on your ability to comprehend and communicate about the text itself.

Yes but all you describe are limitations, limitations that are neither here nor there to a layman?

A philosopher is happy to discuss subtext, half his point is that philosophy changes radically depending on how you interpret a specific philosophy's subtext.

You are not interested in anything radical?
 
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Gottservant

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The biggest problem is your refusal to listen. You have been told many, many times that your definition of evolution is incorrect, yet you keep throwing it out there. Normally, that would be counted as trolling.

But I am repeatedly redefining my point, in an attempt to draw out the strongest possible meaning of Evolution.

As God said "who is deaf like my messenger?" - deafness is something to be loved, not eschrewed.
 
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Shemjaza

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Yes but all you describe are limitations, limitations that are neither here nor there to a layman?
No, the ability to communicate plainly is absolutely necessary for a layman.

A philosopher is happy to discuss subtext, half his point is that philosophy changes radically depending on how you interpret a specific philosophy's subtext.

Subtext is impossible to discuss if you can't even communicate about the basic text.

You are not interested in anything radical?
Sure, but without the ability to communicate, it's impossible.
 
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Gottservant

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No, the ability to communicate plainly is absolutely necessary for a layman.

Maybe we should both practice it more!

Subtext is impossible to discuss if you can't even communicate about the basic text.

Yet you continue to say one can't inform the other - case in point!

I am saying "perhaps if I understood the subtext you think is relevant, I would understand the text itself, as well?" There is no reason to suggest that that is disingenuous?

Sure, but without the ability to communicate, it's impossible.

Show me just a portion of the subtext you think is relevant, and let us both examine from our mutually biased perspectives?
 
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Bungle_Bear

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But I am repeatedly redefining my point, in an attempt to draw out the strongest possible meaning of Evolution.
You never define "evolution", you just throw out the word and associate whatever incorrect meaning you like. You have been told many, many times what evolution is, but you refuse to listen.
 
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Gottservant

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You never define "evolution", you just throw out the word and associate whatever incorrect meaning you like. You have been told many, many times what evolution is, but you refuse to listen.

Yes but listen to what you are saying:

Evolution is "this" meaning "always something else".

How is it my fault if I can't understand that? It is defined as self-contradictory?
 
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Larniavc

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And yet I cease to find a reason to believe in Evolution, on its own.

Intellectual suicide?
No. That’s just you not believing that evolution happens. I don’t quite know the reason for that but from the years I’ve been here reading your posts I’d guess it’s because you don’t comprehend how evolution works.
 
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Shemjaza

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Yes but listen to what you are saying:

Evolution is "this" meaning "always something else".

How is it my fault if I can't understand that? It is defined as self-contradictory?
They did not say that was the definition of evolution.

A decent definition is:
change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations

The Theory of Evolution is the explanation as to how this happens.
 
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Larniavc

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Yes but listen to what you are saying:

Evolution is "this" meaning "always something else".

How is it my fault if I can't understand that? It is defined as self-contradictory?
The Theory of Evolution is very well defined defined. You can look it up in any sufficient level biology text book.

THAT is what YOU need to read to learn about ToE.
 
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