Craig Truglia . . .

[Light of the East]

Has anyone here read his stuff? Does anyone here know who he is?

When I read what he writes, I can't help but thinking this: "I'm glad he found Orthodoxy. I hope someday Orthodoxy finds him."

I keep smelling Calvinism in his writing.

 

[Light of the East]

Here's a sample of something he posted:

In Adam we had fallen under sin, the curse, and death, so we are delivered from sin, the curse, and death in Jesus Christ. His voluntary suffering and death on the cross for us, being of infinite value and merit, as the death of one sinless, God and man in one person, is both a perfect satisfaction to the justice of God, which had condemned us for sin to death, and a fund of infinite merit, which has obtained him the right, without prejudice to justice, to give us sinners pardon of our sins, and grace to have victory over sin and death…

I could be wrong here, but the words in red sound an awful lot like Roman Catholic and Western soteriology.

 

[ArmyMatt]

it’s not wrong per se, it depends on what he means. you do find that language, even though rare, in the Fathers.

 

[E.C.]

I know a priest who is of the opinion that no priest should write a book until they've been out of seminary at least ten years. As a convert, I think the same should apply to converts. Yes, we learned the faith, yes we studied things, yes we were chrismated, but we don't give enough time for the chrism to marinate.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know a priest who is of the opinion that no priest should write a book until they've been out of seminary at least ten years. As a convert, I think the same should apply to converts. Yes, we learned the faith, yes we studied things, yes we were chrismated, but we don't give enough time for the chrism to marinate.

yep, let the chrism dry.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I know who he is and that he regularly converses with Fr. John Whiteford. I know he does a lot of the apologetics. I’m indifferent about him. I don’t not like him or do. I just don’t watch his videos because apologetics don’t really interest me anymore (ironic since St. Justin Martyr is my patron). I can’t comment on his spiritual life, though.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know who he is and that he regularly converses with Fr. John Whiteford. I know he does a lot of the apologetics. I’m indifferent about him. I don’t not like him or do. I just don’t watch his videos because apologetics don’t really interest me anymore (ironic since St. Justin Martyr is my patron). I can’t comment on his spiritual life, though.

I think the main issue isn’t that he’s into apologetics, but that he’s doing it so soon after his conversion. that can lead to trouble.

 

[Light of the East]

I think the main issue isn’t that he’s into apologetics, but that he’s doing it so soon after his conversion. that can lead to trouble.

I have read some quotes from Orthodox priests who are complaining that a lot of American converts are dragging Western baggage into Orthodoxy and causing havoc in American Orthodoxy. That is one thing I am trying to avoid. I am coming to realize that my whole approach to life as a Christian is very much oriented in a Western thinking fashion.

 

[rusmeister]

I have read some quotes from Orthodox priests who are complaining that a lot of American converts are dragging Western baggage into Orthodoxy and causing havoc in American Orthodoxy. That is one thing I am trying to avoid. I am coming to realize that my whole approach to life as a Christian is very much oriented in a Western thinking fashion.

Yes. While I have been beaten over the head with the dragging in of modern baggage in regard to morality (thus my harping on or stressing of understandings of marriage and sexual morality), they certainly do drag in theological understandings in a similar way, and the one does affect the other. I figured out early on that the theology is generally above my pay grade in terms of intellectual discourse, and without the consensus of the fathers we are totally lost in trying to deal with it. Just trying to “know God”, the root meaning of the word “theology”, has found more fruit (for example) in the experience of raising my own children and being continually disappointed, seeing them and realizing that is how God must see me, than in any reading of heady books.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I have read some quotes from Orthodox priests who are complaining that a lot of American converts are dragging Western baggage into Orthodoxy and causing havoc in American Orthodoxy. That is one thing I am trying to avoid. I am coming to realize that my whole approach to life as a Christian is very much oriented in a Western thinking fashion.

yep, new converts should just try to breathe the faith in at first.

 

[Lukaris]

I also think some American converts are also articulating the faith and help making it known and not fading into further obscurity.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I also think some American converts are also articulating the faith and help making it known and not fading into further obscurity.

also true, I think the question is when they should start articulating the faith and making it known.

 

[E.C.]

I know who he is and that he regularly converses with Fr. John Whiteford.

That's a red flag.

also true, I think the question is when they should start articulating the faith and making it known.

I'd say minimum 5-10 years. Whenever the initial Crusader-like zeal wears off. And wait a year.

 

[Platina]

As Fr. Matt says, it depends on what is meant by this language. For instance, St. Innocent of Kherson, a Holy Hierarch, uses the language of the merits of Christ quite often.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'd say minimum 5-10 years. Whenever the initial Crusader-like zeal wears off. And wait a year.

yeah, that strong itch to heresy hunt needs time to subside.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe the average American Orthodox person should be able to articulate their basic faith upon chrismation. It is probably the effort of growing in grace for the rest of our lives in which we can better witness & articulate the same basic & ultimate Gospel truth.

Interestingly, I believe this is what St. John Climacus tells the average layperson in first page or two of The Divine Ladder.



21. Some people living carelessly in the world have asked me: ‘We have wives and are beset with social cares, and how can we lead the solitary life?’ I replied to them: ‘Do all the good you can; do not speak evil of anyone; do not steal from anyone; do not lie to anyone; do not be arrogant towards anyone; do not hate any one; be sure you go to church; be compassionate to the needy; do not offend anyone; do not wreck another man’s domestic happiness;3 and be content with what your own wives can give you. If you behave in this way you will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven.’
22


http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf

 

[abacabb3]

Here's a sample of something he posted:

In Adam we had fallen under sin, the curse, and death, so we are delivered from sin, the curse, and death in Jesus Christ. His voluntary suffering and death on the cross for us, being of infinite value and merit, as the death of one sinless, God and man in one person, is both a perfect satisfaction to the justice of God, which had condemned us for sin to death, and a fund of infinite merit, which has obtained him the right, without prejudice to justice, to give us sinners pardon of our sins, and grace to have victory over sin and death…

I could be wrong here, but the words in red sound an awful lot like Roman Catholic and Western soteriology.

I just ran the quote into Google, you're taking issue with St Filaret of Moscow, who in the above is quoted ad verbatim: The Catechism of the Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church

 

[Light of the East]

I just ran the quote into Google, you're taking issue with St Filaret of Moscow, who in the above is quoted ad verbatim: The Catechism of the Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church

I was told that there is no official catechism in Orthodoxy. On this board. By people here.

 

[abacabb3]

I was told that there is no official catechism in Orthodoxy. On this board. By people here.

Hmmm, that doesn't sound right. There are numerous catechisms. The one quoted above is Saint Filaret's, approved by the Russian synod some time during the 1800s--translated into English of course.

The Synod of Jassy (approved by the whole Church/all the synods) subscribed to the Catechism of St Peter Mogila: The orthodox confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Eastern Church : Mogila, Peter, Metropolitan of Kiev, 1596-1646 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

St Sebastian Dabovic wrote a catechism in the USA: The Holy Orthodox Church

St Nicolai of Zica wrote a catechism: The Faith of the Saints: A Catechism by Saint Bishop Nikolai Velimirovic

New Martyr Daneil Sysoev wrote a catechism: The Law of God (Sysoev)

The top two are open source. I think there are more from saints, but I forget at the moment. It is interesting though that due to having conciliar approval for Mogila's catechism, the Orthodox in effect have a more authoritative catechism than the Roman Catholics, who have made alterations in theirs over the centuries.

 

[Light of the East]

Hmmm, that doesn't sound right. There are numerous catechisms. The one quoted above is Saint Filaret's, approved by the Russian synod some time during the 1800s--translated into English of course.

The Synod of Jassy (approved by the whole Church/all the synods) subscribed to the Catechism of St Peter Mogila: The orthodox confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Eastern Church : Mogila, Peter, Metropolitan of Kiev, 1596-1646 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

St Sebastian Dabovic wrote a catechism in the USA: The Holy Orthodox Church

St Nicolai of Zica wrote a catechism: The Faith of the Saints: A Catechism by Saint Bishop Nikolai Velimirovic

New Martyr Daneil Sysoev wrote a catechism: The Law of God (Sysoev)

The top two are open source. I think there are more from saints, but I forget at the moment. It is interesting though that due to having conciliar approval for Mogila's catechism, the Orthodox in effect have a more authoritative catechism than the Roman Catholics, who have made alterations in theirs over the centuries.

Yes, there are numerous catechisms, but as I understand it, none of them are actually official, that is, they do not have the property of being binding upon my conscience as do the Seven Ecumenical Councils. Or am I wrong here?

Father Matt?