COVID vaccine hesitancy: Why people don't want the shot

[KCfromNC]

In the past they cancelled a vaccine after 35 people died.

To date over 14,000 have died from the COVID vaccines, and that’s just the ones who died from it over two weeks from the time of the vaccine - because they are manipulating the stats by not counting anyone as vaccinated for two weeks after the jab - and 80% of those who die after it are within the 14 days.

Their deaths are thus listed as being unvaccinated - the claimed surge in unvaccinated deaths, is in reality the surge in vaccinated deaths.

There's no evidence that any of these claims are true.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Nv

 

[rambot]

In the past they cancelled a vaccine after 35 people died.

To date over 14,000 have died from the COVID vaccines, and that’s just the ones who died from it over two weeks from the time of the vaccine - because they are manipulating the stats by not counting anyone as vaccinated for two weeks after the jab - and 80% of those who die after it are within the 14 days.

Their deaths are thus listed as being unvaccinated - the claimed surge in unvaccinated deaths, is in reality the surge in vaccinated deaths.

0 citations for any of your claims.
0 logic to them.
0 compunction for me to address them



The sources you read are poison. These are quintessentially, unreliable and every red flag I taught my grades 7s to look for when evaluating the reliability of a website is there.

I am sorry the American education system let you down in that way.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

You analysis there assumes that covid death rates nor vaccination rates are uniform across age groups, but we know that isn't true.

If you think you can do a better job yourself with the data, then get busy with it. But based on my experience on here, I think there's a very high probability that you won't. The reason I'm so sure of that is because there's an awful lot of people here who like to throw stones, but rarely create anything themselves, for fear that someone might throw stones at them and their creation.

 

[KCfromNC]

If you think you can do a better job yourself with the data, then get busy with it. But based on my experience on here, I think there's a very high probability that you won't. The reason I'm so sure of that is because there's an awful lot of people here who like to throw stones, but rarely create anything themselves, for fear that someone might throw stones at them and their creation.

Pretty sure attacking the poster rather than the content of the post is against the rules here. And also pretty indicative that there wasn't an actual substantive reply isn't forthcoming.

Anyway, here's an analysis of similar data - https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated. It follows the same pattern as the data you posted.

And here's similar analysis of older UK data - https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...ut-the-delta-variant-are-the-vaccines-working

 

[loveofourlord]

There are 50 billion spiked proteins injected with the jab - those spikes damage arteries, causing bleeding and thus clots.

please tell me your joking and not really saying something that stupid....

 

[whatbogsends]

Actually, that first number should be 1,613.

Are you controlling for group population sizes among the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups? as well as the fact that the unvaccinated group skews younger? And that it's only taking into account the cases specifically sequenced and genotyped Delta? (and not every single positive result gets sequenced)

UK has had over 7 million cases, only 600k have been sequenced, which means less than 10% of cases get sequenced.

Right out of the gate, if you control for the fact that there's 3 vaccinated people for every 1 unvaccinated person in the UK, that automatically shifts those numbers in favor of the vaccinated.

Emphasis added.

Except that the data is from Feb 1, 2021 - Sep 12, 2021. The 75% vaccination rate is current, but it's not reflective of the vaccination rate for that time period. They didn't even reach 10% fully vaxxed until April 4. Most people were getting their first shots. Even in March, fully vaxxed rates were very low. They didn't even get to 50% getting 2 shots until June 4, 2020. For more than half of the time period of the statistics, fully vaxxed was < 50%.

While i agree that vaccination rates definitely play into the numbers of vaccinated/unvaccinated outcomes, the numbers you're suggesting aren't applicable to the data being discussed. If anything, there are more unvaccinated people in the UK in the time period discussed. Of course, it's likely more complex than that, as older age groups a) reached a higher vaccination status sooner than the general population and b) older people are also more highly represented in deaths and c) that data is specific to the delta variant, which was more prevalent later, so while the general population may have been less than 50% vaccinated in the time period in which the statistics refer, it's difficult to draw firm conclusions based on the data as presented. A much more granular assessment of data would be needed.

As far as his 1779 number vs 1613, i would agree that the 1613 (having received 2 doses) is more applicable. I believe the 1779 number is reflective of all people having received at least 1 dose. (1613+149+17)

Vaccinations in the UK | Coronavirus in the UK (data.gov.uk)

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Emphasis added.

Except that the data is from Feb 1, 2021 - Sep 12, 2021. The 75% vaccination rate is current, but it's not reflective of the vaccination rate for that time period. They didn't even reach 10% fully vaxxed until April 4. Most people were getting their first shots. Even in March, fully vaxxed rates were very low. They didn't even get to 50% getting 2 shots until June 4, 2020. For more than half of the time period of the statistics, fully vaxxed was < 50%.

While i agree that vaccination rates definitely play into the numbers of vaccinated/unvaccinated outcomes, the numbers you're suggesting aren't applicable to the data being discussed. If anything, there are more unvaccinated people in the UK in the time period discussed. Of course, it's likely more complex than that, as older age groups a) reached a higher vaccination status sooner than the general population and b) older people are also more highly represented in deaths and c) that data is specific to the delta variant, which was more prevalent later, so while the general population may have been less than 50% vaccinated in the time period in which the statistics refer, it's difficult to draw firm conclusions based on the data as presented. A much more granular assessment of data would be needed.

As far as his 1779 number vs 1613, i would agree that the 1613 (having received 2 doses) is more applicable. I believe the 1779 number is reflective of all people having received at least 1 dose. (1613+149+17)

Vaccinations in the UK | Coronavirus in the UK (data.gov.uk)

Actually, a key thing to point out there, is that the UK (like most countries) prioritized older and at-risk people first.

UK started their vaccine rollout for the elderly pretty early, and a large percentage of elderly people were vaccinated early on.

Which is why you see the difference in outcomes between the over 50 and under 50 groups.

By the time delta hit, a significant portion of people over 50 in the UK were already vaccinated.

• Between 8 December 2020 and 11 March 2021, 90.2% of all residents in England aged 70 years and over had received at least one dose of a coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine.

The timeline for this particular report starts Feb 2021 (right before the earlier bounds of this data set)

So the > 50 group was more highly vaccinated at the point when Delta showed up, the < 50 group was not.

But again, a lot of this is moot when you consider that this is only considering sequenced cases (specifically, cases sequenced as delta). If a person is asymptomatic or only mildly symptomatic, most people aren't going to go out of their way to go the hospital and get tested.

I don't think anyone is doubting that a vaccinated 90 yo person with a weak heart is still more "at risk" than an unvaccinated 22 year old. Which is why looking at a particular data aggregates is important for this type of conversation

 

[chad kincham]

please tell me your joking and not really saying something that stupid....

So in your brilliance, explain why the jab causes blood clots afterwards for weeks?

You don’t think fifty billion microscopic spiked proteins can cause microscopic injuries?

From nature magazine:

At present, researchers don’t know what component of these vaccines could be causing the unwanted immune response against platelet factor 4. “It could be caused by the vectors, it could be caused by the spike protein, it could be caused by a contaminant present in the vector,” says viral immunologist Hildegund Ertl at the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So in your brilliance, explain why the jab causes blood clots afterwards for weeks?

You don’t think fifty billion microscopic spiked proteins can cause microscopic injuries?

From nature magazine:

At present, researchers don’t know what component of these vaccines could be causing the unwanted immune response against platelet factor 4. “It could be caused by the vectors, it could be caused by the spike protein, it could be caused by a contaminant present in the vector,” says viral immunologist Hildegund Ertl at the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

No worries here -- my vaccine was Pfizer.

 

[Tanj]

You don’t think fifty billion microscopic spiked proteins can cause microscopic injuries?

I'd really like to know where this "50 billion spike proteins" came from.

For the others in this thread, Google had something interesting but unrelated...
The total number and mass of SARS-CoV-2 virions

Although each infected person carries an estimated 1 billion to 100 billion virions during peak infection, their total mass is no more than 0.1 mg. This curiously implies that all SARS-CoV-2 virions currently in all human hosts have a mass of between 100 g and 10 kg.

So..if the entire world goes on a diet and loses a kg, we'd have this thing beat!

 

[Pommer]

So in your brilliance, explain why the jab causes blood clots afterwards for weeks?

You don’t think fifty billion microscopic spiked proteins can cause microscopic injuries?

From nature magazine:

At present, researchers don’t know what component of these vaccines could be causing the unwanted immune response against platelet factor 4. “It could be caused by the vectors, it could be caused by the spike protein, it could be caused by a contaminant present in the vector,” says viral immunologist Hildegund Ertl at the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

I believe the “spike protein” is so named because of its shape, and not at all as to spike as in a “spiked-weapon”.

Though yes, the cells that take up the mRNA vaccines will begin to manufacture the spike proteins and be killed by the immune system…that’s how vaccines work, some “pawn cells” are sacrificed so that the body may live.

 

[Bobber]

I have a curious question I've never heard people talk about. By not wanting to get a vaccine would this also mean if one needs a blood transfusion that they'd go without it? Surely much blood would come from vaccinated people right?

 

[loveofourlord]

So in your brilliance, explain why the jab causes blood clots afterwards for weeks?

You don’t think fifty billion microscopic spiked proteins can cause microscopic injuries?

From nature magazine:

At present, researchers don’t know what component of these vaccines could be causing the unwanted immune response against platelet factor 4. “It could be caused by the vectors, it could be caused by the spike protein, it could be caused by a contaminant present in the vector,” says viral immunologist Hildegund Ertl at the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Not in the way your thinking they aren't spikes as in spears or such, they are talking about the part of covid that attaches to the cell, so it would be the same if not wore in covid. Think those little tabs on HIV, Influenza, and covid that you see in the diagrams. Your not understanding the words your using.

 

[rambot]

please tell me your joking and not really saying something that stupid....

It's the magic of the internet that EVERYONE gets their opinion heard.

 

[rambot]

As expected, technical briefing number 23 was released today. From page 20:

Vaxxed Delta variant deaths = 1779
Unvaxxed Delta variant deaths = 722

There's something very, very confusing about this data. As I understood it, this briefing covers a full year: Feb 1 2021 to Sept 12 2021.
And yet, There were 1000 deaths on Feb 5 and Feb 10.




So I already have some pretty basic questions about what these briefings are referring to.
Not only that but it looks like FEb 1ish is the time when vaccines started to be given. And look at the drop in deaths; by April 11 they were down to 7. Thanks to vaccines.

 

[SapphirePrincess]

A lot of Christians aren't getting it after, they believe, the Lord told them not to in prayer. I am in that category. I don't think anyone who has truly **asked Him** and listened to Him would take this thing. That is enough for me. This is actually mRNA therapy and not a vaccine as we have all understood it to be.

I was in the vaccine hesitant camp until last year when He told me that our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit. *The life is in the blood* was stressed to me. I urge everyone to pray over this. I never approached this subject from that angle before and it surprised me. I won't be taking this thing. They can throw me in jail. Not going to happen.

I am not debating this subject, either.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I have a curious question I've never heard people talk about. By not wanting to get a vaccine would this also mean if one needs a blood transfusion that they'd go without it? Surely much blood would come from vaccinated people right?

Perhaps the unvaxxed can carry MedicAlert bracelets or something similar demanding their right to "pure" blood, free of those nasty spike proteins...

 

[TLK Valentine]

A lot of Christians aren't getting it after, they believe, the Lord told them not to in prayer. I am in that category. I don't think anyone who has truly **asked Him** and listened to Him would take this thing. That is enough for me. This is actually mRNA therapy and not a vaccine as we have all understood it to be.

I was in the vaccine hesitant camp until last year when He told me that our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit. *The life is in the blood* was stressed to me. I urge everyone to pray over this. I never approached this subject from that angle before and it surprised me. I won't be taking this thing. They can throw me in jail. Not going to happen.

I am not debating this subject, either.

What did your doctor tell you in consultation?

No debate, just a question...

 

[hedrick]

Pretty sure attacking the poster rather than the content of the post is against the rules here. And also pretty indicative that there wasn't an actual substantive reply isn't forthcoming.

Anyway, here's an analysis of similar data - https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated. It follows the same pattern as the data you posted.

And here's similar analysis of older UK data - https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...ut-the-delta-variant-are-the-vaccines-working

Summary. The characteristics of younger and older populations are very different. When you combine them the summary data can be very misleading. This is a problem that statisticians have known for a long time. It’s called Simpson’s Paradox. The first reference is a good treatment, not just of the Covid data, but of Simpson’s Paradox. You can have an effectiveness of 95% for each population, but from the totals it can look absurdly low. The UK data for delta show 88% effectiveness.

For some reason the US data looks a lot better in totals, so we haven’t seen that kind of problem from state data. But there’s no reason Simpson’s paradox shouldn’t show up in US data as well.