Covid & the mark of the beast

[BrAndreyu]

Well can you tell it to pope who were saying no jab, no heaven?

The Pope literally never said that, but nice try.

Although Pope Francis doesn't need your help in looking bad. He already looks bad enough trying to restrict the celebration of the Tridentine Latin Mass.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Pope literally never said that, but nice try.

Although Pope Francis doesn't need your help in looking bad. He already looks bad enough trying to restrict the celebration of the Tridentine Latin Mass.

Correction, Pope Francis isn't restricting the TLM, but giving the authority
of when and where it may be said to the Bishops of the Dioceses as it was
before Pope Benedict XVI tried to compromise with Bishop Lefebvre's people.

The TLM is still being celebrated in many of the places it was before Pope Francis changed the regulation on it.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Correction, Pope Francis isn't restricting the TLM, but giving the authority
of when and where it may be said to the Bishops of the Dioceses as it was
before Pope Benedict XVI tried to compromise with Bishop Lefebvre's people.

Except that it can't be celebrated in parochial or personal parishes, no new parishes may be built for the purpose of celebrating TLM, and the Bishops have to go to the Vatican to get permission to have a priest celebrate it: as far as I remember, the Bishops themselves cannot authorize any further celebrations of it than are already taking place. Bishops must also find alternate locations for the celebration of the TLM without erecting new parishes.

The Traditionis Custodes may in theory be designed to deal with Lefebvre's people, but Lefebvrites aren't going to care and aren't going to pay attention to it anyway, since most of them are also sedevacantists. So for right now, it's still being celebrated in FSSP parishes but the question remains: for how long? The Bishop around here said that he's going to "study" it, which I assume means "blow it off" and let the FSSP parish continue to celebrate the Latin mass.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Except that it can't be celebrated in parochial or personal parishes, no new parishes may be built for the purpose of celebrating TLM, and the Bishops have to go to the Vatican to get permission to have a priest celebrate it: as far as I remember, the Bishops themselves cannot authorize any further celebrations of it than are already taking place. Bishops must also find alternate locations for the celebration of the TLM without erecting new parishes.

The Traditionis Custodes may in theory be designed to deal with Lefebvre's people, but Lefebvrites aren't going to care and aren't going to pay attention to it anyway, since most of them are also sedevacantists. So for right now, it's still being celebrated in FSSP parishes but the question remains: for how long? The Bishop around here said that he's going to "study" it, which I assume means "blow it off" and let the FSSP parish continue to celebrate the Latin mass.

The Bishops can decide when and where to allow the TLM to be celebrated as it
was before Pope Benedict XVI's Motu Propro.

They can prohibit a parish from celebrating the TLM if there isn't enough members of
that parish requesting it.

Currently, as in my former parish, a handful of people requested the TLM. The Bishop was required to provide it. In short, it disrupted the parish life of the people of that parish as the vast majority who attended, were not of that parish and some weren't even in the same dioceses. Some traveled over two hours to attend. Of course after Mass they required refreshments and fellowship which took place in the hall. The regular members of the parish trying to attend their scheduled Masses, had no place to park as it the lot was full of nonmembers of that parish attending the TLM.

Pope Francis didn't make the decision in a vacuum. He first sent out a survey to the Bishops to get their feedback. The feedback from the Bishops showed they had problems having the TLM whenever it was requested. Pope Benedict XVI's Motu Proprio had removed their authority on the TLM and all it took was a request from some Catholics to have it in their parish.

Unity is the goal of Pope Francis. There aren't two Catholic Churches but one, and that one unified Church has the Novus Ordo as the ordinary, not the TLM. The TLM is allowed, but under the authority of the Bishops.

 

[BrAndreyu]

The Bishops can decide when and where to allow the TLM to be celebrated as it
was before Pope Benedict XVI's Motu Propro.

@Fenwick, care to take this one? I don't know whether I'm explaining it properly or whether I am misinterpreting TC

 

[JimR-OCDS]

@Fenwick, care to take this one? I don't know whether I'm explaining it properly or whether I am misinterpreting TC

I read Pope Francis document from the Vatican site itself, not what other's tell
me it says.

 

[BrAndreyu]

I read Pope Francis document from the Vatican site itself, not what other's tell
me it says.

This guy understands it better than I do, that's all I'm saying. I've only read commentaries on it from NCRegister and whatnot, so I'm going by what they say it means.

My Bishop said that he's going to "study" it, which I assume means that he's going to blow it off and continue to let the FSSP parish practice the TLM as it is really the only place in the diocese that does it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This guy understands it better than I do, that's all I'm saying. I've only read commentaries on it from NCRegister and whatnot, so I'm going by what they say it means.

My Bishop said that he's going to "study" it, which I assume means that he's going to blow it off and continue to let the FSSP parish practice the TLM as it is really the only place in the diocese that does it.

The Pope's letter doesn't prohibit the TLM. It merely places the decision on when and where to have it on the Bishop. Pope Benedict's Motu Proprio, removed the Bishop's authority on it. If a Bishop doesn't see the parish wanting it, he won't allow it there.

In my Dioceses, the same monastery that currently has the TLM and is open to the
public, will continue to do so. The only other that I know of is a parish outside of
my dioceses, but that Bishop will also allow it there, as the majority of that parish
want it.

 

[BrAndreyu]

The Pope's letter doesn't prohibit the TLM. It merely places the decision on when and where to have it on the Bishop.

And then the Bishop has to go get permission from the Vatican to implement a TLM, and any priest who is ordained from here on out who wants to celebrate the TLM has to get permission from the Bishop, and then the Bishop has to get permission from Rome is what I could have sworn that the other clause(s) was.

I remember the entire thing made waves on OBOB because the TC seemed like a restriction of the Tridentine mass.

 

[AdB]

I started this thread to share ideas how the current happenings around covid are related to how the mark of the beast will be implemented during the great tribulation... not about some catholic rites...

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And then the Bishop has to go get permission from the Vatican to implement a TLM, and any priest who is ordained from here on out who wants to celebrate the TLM has to get permission from the Bishop, and then the Bishop has to get permission from Rome is what I could have sworn that the other clause(s) was.

I remember the entire thing made waves on OBOB because the TC seemed like a restriction of the Tridentine mass.

No, the Bishop doesn't have to get permission from the Vatican, unless he wants to
open a new parish, which happens to have the TLM as it's norm.

Well, the Bishop has to get permission for any new parish that opens, even those
that use the ordinary.

 

[BrAndreyu]

No, the Bishop doesn't have to get permission from the Vatican, unless he wants to
open a new parish, which happens to have the TLM as it's norm.

But they can't open a new parish for the TLM, and the TC said that "other places need to be found for the celebration of the TLM" that are neither parochial nor personal churches. That much I remember distinctly, which is why my bishop is going to "study it" because it would involve him having to shut down the FSSP parish

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But they can't open a new parish for the TLM, and the TC said that "other places need to be found for the celebration of the TLM" that are neither parochial nor personal churches. That much I remember distinctly, which is why my bishop is going to "study it" because it would involve him having to shut down the FSSP parish

They can with permission from Rome.

However, there is little reason to open a new parish which celebrates Mass in the extraordinary format. It certainly a problem if such a parish is going to have a
school. If they did, the children would only know the TLM of the Mass and not the
NO which the rest of the Catholic world celebrates ?

Yeah, for some people the TLM has became a personal choice which makes them feel
more Catholic than others who attend their local parish Masses. This is the disunity
Pope Francis seeks to inhibit if not end.

 

[BrAndreyu]

Yeah, for some people the TLM has became a personal choice which makes them feel
more Catholic than others who attend their local parish Masses.

The fact that I've only been to one TLM in my life makes me feel inferior to the people who are able to go to one every week or every day if they so choose, so I guess I see your point.

Although I'm considering switching to an Eastern Rite church permanently. I used to go, but I stopped because they were only doing mass in a language that I don't understand, but apparently at this particular church, English masses have started up again so I'm considering going there from now on so that I don't have to worry about that inferior feeling regarding the FSSP parish anymore.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The fact that I've only been to one TLM in my life makes me feel inferior to the people who are able to go to one every week or every day if they so choose, so I guess I see your point.

Although I'm considering switching to an Eastern Rite church permanently. I used to go, but I stopped because they were only doing mass in a language that I don't understand, but apparently at this particular church, English masses have started up again so I'm considering going there from now on so that I don't have to worry about that inferior feeling regarding the FSSP parish anymore.

Union with Christ beings with being detached from the ego driven ideologies of those
who have religion, but not faith.

St John of the Cross wrote about detachment from what he called, "the appetites." They didn't have a word for "ego," back then. But we all have egos that we have to become aware of and detach from with the help of God's grace.

The format you attend shouldn't matter when it comes to receiving Christ in the Eucharist. The grace is the same regardless of the format used to consecrate the
Bread and Wine.

 

[alertandawake]

Something else I wanted to add, with what we are seeing today. What we are witnessing is people who submit to vaccines, will have certain freedoms, but with strings attached.

Now look at the mark of the beast, people will be able to do certain things, but there is a condition.

I pay attention to what is going. Yes I have heard how getting vaccines is the way to get back to pre-covid 19 lifestyle, but that is not what I have been noticing.

 

[JM]

Cardio ID would make it easier.

 

[alertandawake]

The more and more I read about the push for these covid vaccines, consequences for those who do not accept, the more and more I believe we are approaching "the mark of the beast". I don't accept coincidences, not on this scale.

I don't know, there just seems more and more of a push to punish those who refuse to accept the jab. And this is global.

When I think of what can turn family members against each other, there is one word that comes to my mind - vaccines. And you can bet there will be arguments.

I still believe we are in a conditioning phase, but conditioning can work two ways, so if we go by the concept that we are being conditioned to eventually accept the mark of the beast, then it stands to reason there will be those who will already be preparing themselves when the time comes to refuse the mark of the beast.

It stands to reason that those who refuse will have come to the conclusion they will be considered outcasts, rebels, nonconformers and so on. Such people may possibly lose all their friends, their family, their jobs and so on.

I don't think people even realize just how bad things are going to get, and the reason for this, in my opinion, is because such people cannot accept reality.

 

[HappyHope]

I always thought the rapture would be pre-tribulation, one logical reason was because the rapture would cause such chaos that would give the antichrist the excuse to take full control and introduce the mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18). But now with Covid we see that this is not needed at all, people will follow suit with just a little fear mongering....

What's your take on this?

I’m still strongly pretrib but not convinced all the Rev churches will be raptured. Saved, yes, raptured, no. They aren’t the same thing to me. I do wonder what megadeception Satan plans to roll out when the Rapture occurs. You know he has a plan that will convince people the Raptured hasn’t occurred. Others will only start to clue in then though. Bless them. It’s going to be a blow.

 

[HappyHope]

I always thought the rapture would be pre-tribulation, one logical reason was because the rapture would cause such chaos that would give the antichrist the excuse to take full control and introduce the mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18). But now with Covid we see that this is not needed at all, people will follow suit with just a little fear mongering....

What's your take on this?

My guess is the mark of the beast is some kind of mindcontrol component/device (frequently studied in underground bases it seems) that forfeits the freewill of people and therefore one forfeits salvation eligibility with no free will. Tragic but those who receive the mark likely won’t complain a bit no matter what, so this furthers deception giving people a false sense of security but who knows?