COVID Risk Factors and Susceptibility to COVID

[pitabread]

I will use my senses to understand what is happening in the world, and my common sense to figure out how to respond to various problems.

Common sense is useful for making decisions based on limited information and in limited time frames. It is not so useful for making decisions in most other cases.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Common sense is useful for making decisions based on limited information and in limited time frames. It is not so useful for making decisions in most other cases.

It’s pretty useful for someone who’s been a front-line worker and neck-deep in Covid for over a year, with many of my co-workers getting sick, recovering, coming back to work, etc. And being able to observe the symptoms and long-term effects of the virus for myself. That’s proven to be extremely helpful.

 

[tas8831]

Every day in the UK covid news cycle brings a new round of covid statistics. Numbers of positive tests, numbers of hospitalisations, numbers of fatalities. And yet these statistics rarely seem to be given any context. Some of the covid risk factors are by now very well known, but when the daily covid statistics are presented in the UK MSM, there is little to no mention of the circumstances of hospitalisations and fatalities.

So what are some of the risk factors?

Obesity:
Obesity as a risk factor has been known about almost from the very start. And considering that large proportions of the Western population are overweight, it's hardly surprising that many people in the US and the UK are vulnerable to covid.

Obesity as a Risk Factor for Severe COVID-19 and Complications: A Review

Age:
The vulnerability of elderly people has also been known about almost from the very start. In the UK the average age of a covid fatality is slightly greater than the (pre-covid) average life expectancy.

Average age of those who had died with COVID-19

Ethnicity and heritage:
There is some theoretical evidence that the covid virus may bind more strongly to the ACE2 receptor in people of certain ethnicities and heritages. It's a theoretical study, but if it's proved in the real world, then Europeans appear to be among the most vulnerable, and Ashkenazi Jews the least vulnerable.

ACE2 coding variants in different populations and their potential impact on SARS-CoV-2 binding affinity

Kidney function:
COVID-19 and chronic kidney disease: a comprehensive review
Kidney impairment in hospitalized patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection is associated with increased in-hospital mortality and worse clinical evolution, raising concerns towards patients with chronic kidney disease (CKD).

Sickle cell disease:
Sickle cell disease and COVID-19: Susceptibility and severity
The obtained results should be interpreted, considering low cases from sub-Saharan people, younger age of SCD patients compared to general population, a bias toward registry of the more severe form of disease, the effect of pre-existing comorbidities with multisystem organ damage, and the role of health socio-economic determinants.

Blood group:
The effects of blood group types on the risk of COVID-19 infection and its clinical outcome
The results of the present study suggest that while the blood group A might have a role in increased susceptibility to the COVID-19 infection, the blood group O might be somewhat protective. However, once infected, blood group type does not seem to influence clinical outcome.

With the possible exception of obesity (BMI is not always obvious), you cannot tell if a person has those risk factors.
So maybe taking precautions not to infect others is the best, most human, most Christian thing to do?

 

[tas8831]

Covid 19 has been described as having mild symptoms, which are none other than the flu and moderate to serious symptoms,

It has also been described as having much more severe effects. Why ignore that?

which are seen as excessive inflammation in the body.

Please explain how loss of the sense of smell or taste is produced by inflammation.

This is really about autoimmunity.

No, it really isn't.
I submit that you do not understand what autoimmunity is.

 

[pitabread]

It’s pretty useful for someone who’s been a front-line worker and neck-deep in Covid for over a year, with many of my co-workers getting sick, recovering, coming back to work, etc. And being able to observe the symptoms and long-term effects of the virus for myself. That’s proven to be extremely helpful.

You're an RN right? In which case, you've had training on appropriate PPE usage, etc?

 

[tas8831]

No, it isn't. autoimmunity and an over zealous immune response are entirely different things.



Also incorrect. Obesity comes with a host of medical issues, not the least of which, ironically, is chronic inflammation.




Also incorrect. Old people suffer from a range of issues, one of the more important with respect to COVID is immune senescence.



I'm having trouble untangling this word salad, but the idea that an over amped immune system causing damage is being covered over is completely wrong.

Worst part - nonsense like that litters social media, and is believed by many solely because it fits their preferred narratives.

 

[tas8831]

The common medical opinion is that immunity senesces with age. This is pure nonsense. I am 72 years young and my immune system is every bit as good as when I was a child. And I should add there that I haven't had the flu or a chill even since my early twenties and I do not have any flu shots either.
The rest of your criticisms is not worth responding to, sorry.'

Oh, well, a sample size of ONE disproves all we know about the immune system!

You will be famous!

 

[anna ~ grace]

You're an RN right? In which case, you've had training on appropriate PPE usage, etc?

Grocery store clerk! So, all we had throughout the entire pandemic has been cloth masks and hand sanitizer. That’s it. We stayed open, we stayed busy, and many of us caught Covid. So, I’ve been in a situation where I can observe how the virus spreads, how it effects people in different age groups, and what some of the long-term effects are.

I’m at a stage where I realize that much of what we are told is not about truly useful information; it’s about ratings. So, I just use the first-hand data I’ve gathered by living through and within the pandemic to make my decisions. That’s about it.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Oh, well, a sample size of ONE disproves all we know about the immune system!

You will be famous!

The dangerous thing is, not permitting people to make personal decisions for themselves based on their own life experiences, bodies, health, ethics, and needs.

Everyone is different. For most people, this vaccine will have a neutral-to-positive effect. For some, it will cause and is causing serious complications, and it is debatable whether those people would have been better off simply catching and surviving Covid.

Demanding that everyone behave in a way which may not make sense given their prior contact with Covid, immune systems, ethics, and health, is unwise. The poster is in her 70s. She’s arguably among the most vulnerable to catching and dying of Covid. Why not let her make her own judgment call?

 

[tas8831]

I agree. It is tragic, but many of us no longer trust “studies”, etc. When we feel that we have been lied to by scientists, doctors, nutritionists, media personalities, politicians, and algorithms, it is hard to trust anything but what our eyes and senses tell us.

Lied to?
I know that Fox, OAN, Newsmax, etc. outright lies to push their idiotic fascist narrative, and that there are sleazy doctors (like the demon-sperm lady or the Ivermectin pushers) and such. You'll need to show the lies (as opposed to updates in information, etc.).

Also please explain how 'algorithms' lie.

I’ve chosen to go that route; I will use my senses to understand what is happening in the world, and my common sense to figure out how to respond to various problems. Not the media, but my senses.

And these senses - vision, touch, hearing, equilibrium, smell, taste, etc. - what do they tell you about aerosol-dispersed respiratory viruses and how to mitigate their spread? More importantly, HOW do you senses inform you of these things?

The final straw for me was local media coverage of our State Fair. It is a humongous event which brings in millions of dollars in profits and tourist dollars, too. No mention of mask mandates, vaccine mandates, or social distancing. Ridiculous.

Did you go? Were there signs or anything?

So, when money is involved and when it suits the media it’s not a “super spreader”, of course, but Christian worship services with a fraction of the people present are? Please.

When people go to a fair, is it indoors or outdoors? Do people sit next to and in front of/behind people and sing and repeat slogans for an hour? Shouldn't the religious - those claiming to love Jesus and his teachings - want to err on the side of caution, rather than lay with the self-loving vermin whining about FREEDOM (to spread disease rather than inconvenience myself)!!! ???
Or are you the kind of Christian that thinks all that crap about loving your neighbor only pertained to the ancient Hebrews? And yes, I have been told that by multiple 'God fearing Christians' on sites like this...

It seems that to you, if information appears to be unfair to religious events, it must be lies?

 

[tas8831]

The dangerous thing is, not permitting people to make personal decisions for themselves based on their own life experiences, bodies, health, ethics, and needs.

Really? That is 'dangerous'? And if those decisions are based on ignorance and selfishness? If those decisions could endanger others?

BALONEY. Howard Stern was right.

Everyone is different. For most people, this vaccine will have a neutral-to-positive effect. For some, it will cause and is causing serious complications, and it is debatable whether those people would have been better off simply catching and surviving Covid.

How many people suffer from these negative effects? I mean ACTUALLY suffer (not relying on the fantasy-filled cesspool that is VAERS and mommy blogs)?

Demanding that everyone behave in a way which may not make sense given their prior contact with Covid, immune systems, ethics, and health, is unwise.

Please share your wisdom regarding communicable diseases, won't you?
Maybe Kyrani is a modern day Typhoid Mary? Maybe you folks should read up on what happened to her and what she did. At least she did not know that she was an asymptomatic carrier...

The poster is in her 70s. She’s arguably among the most vulnerable to catching and dying of Covid. Why not let her make her own judgment call?

Oh sure - she feels great! Covid is no biggie (survivor bias). Just go out and mingle in crowds. What if she is an asymptomatic
carrier' and infects others? And one of them dies? Is that manslaughter? Negligent homicide?

Nah - it is all about "freedom" and "feelings" and what the INDIVIDUAL wants in the moment - just as Jesus taught.

 

[pitabread]

Why not let her make her own judgment call?

Because a) people are generally bad at self-assessing risk, and b) we're dealing with a highly transmissible virus.

People using personal judgement has led to some pretty awful (and avoidable) outcomes.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Because a) people are generally bad at self-assessing risk, and b) we're dealing with a highly transmissible virus.

People using personal judgement has led to some pretty awful (and avoidable) outcomes.

People should still be given the right to make their own calls on this. I know you don’t agree, but the right to accept or turn down medical care is important. The right to make personal judgment calls on things like this matters.

I disagree with those who feel this vaccine is innately evil, or that Christians shouldn’t take it. I am also against mandates. I have been working in this pandemic from day one with nothing but a cloth face mask and hand sanitizer. I should have a say as to whether or not I choose this vaccine, and so should the people who believe strongly that taking it is the wise, right, only sensible choice for them. They should have access to it. I should be able to say “no”.

 

[pitabread]

People should still be given the right to make their own calls on this. I know you don’t agree, but the right to accept or turn down medical care is important. The right to make personal judgment calls on things like this matters.

If we weren't dealing with a highly transmissible virus, then sure. But since we are dealing with a highly transmissible virus, then no.

I am also against mandates.

The fact that people can't be trusted to do the right thing is why mandates are necessary. The anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, etc, are why mandates are required.

I should have a say as to whether or not I choose this vaccine, and so should the people who believe strongly that taking it is the wise, right, only sensible choice for them. They should have access to it. I should be able to say “no”.

Strictly speaking you can. But there may be other consequences as a result (travel restrictions, employment restrictions, requirements for frequent testing, etc.)

It's also worth noting that vaccine mandates are *not* a new thing in the U.S. They've long existed particularly with respect to daycares, schools, etc.

 

[anna ~ grace]

If we weren't dealing with a highly transmissible virus, then sure. But since we are dealing with a highly transmissible virus, then no.

The fact that people can't be trusted to do the right thing is why mandates are necessary. The anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers, etc, are why mandates are required.

Strictly speaking you can. But there may be other consequences as a result (travel restrictions, employment restrictions, requirements for frequent testing, etc.)

It's also worth noting that vaccine mandates are *not* a new thing in the U.S. They've long existed particularly with respect to daycares, schools, etc.

The logic that “people can’t be trusted, so…” gets used in totalitarian regimes often. Be careful.

This entire phenomenon is novel. Many people are understandably cheesed off at the media, authority figures, experts, and politicians for the constant hysteria, difficult to decipher data, broken promises, false claims, and walked-back information / recommendations. It’s getting tiresome. The unprecedented amount of media push for all of this has people suspicious, and wary. I don’t blame them.

Many fear this is a trial-run for something much worse. I agree. Get everyone to comply, get people used to sacrificing most of their freedom of mobility for the greater good, get people used to vaccine passports, get people to hate and look down on the unvaccinated, then introduce other measures on the back of all this, in the interest of public safety, and the greater good. Just wait.

 

[pitabread]

The logic that “people can’t be trusted, so…” gets used in totalitarian regimes often. Be careful.

That's just well-poisoning rhetoric. We live in a society based on laws, many of which are designed to facilitate public safety and security.

This entire phenomenon is novel. Many people are understandably cheesed off at the media, authority figures, experts, and politicians for the constant hysteria, difficult to decipher data, broken promises, false claims, and walked-back information / recommendations. It’s getting tiresome. The unprecedented amount of media push for all of this has people suspicious, and wary. I don’t blame them.

Many fear this is a trial-run for something much worse. I agree. Get everyone to comply, get people used to sacrificing most of their freedom of mobility for the greater good, get people used to vaccine passports, get people to hate and look down on the unvaccinated, then introduce other measures on the back of all this, in the interest of public safety, and the greater good. Just wait.

None of this is novel. Pandemics have occurred before. Anti-vax movements have existed for as long as vaccines (over a hundred years). And vaccine mandates already exist in laws in the United States.

The only thing new is the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Many fear this is a trial-run for something much worse. I agree. Get everyone to comply, get people used to sacrificing most of their freedom of mobility for the greater good, get people used to vaccine passports, get people to hate and look down on the unvaccinated, then introduce other measures on the back of all this, in the interest of public safety, and the greater good. Just wait.

I guess we'll see.

You make it sound like 'measures... in the interest of public safety, and the greater good' are a Bad Thing. We didn't need a pandemic to mandate seatbelts, smoking restrictions, no drink-driving, etc.

But pandemic restrictions will be temporary for two reasons - firstly, they're not relevant unless there's a pandemic, secondly, there are no votes in them.

 

[tas8831]

Grocery store clerk! So, all we had throughout the entire pandemic has been cloth masks and hand sanitizer. That’s it. We stayed open, we stayed busy, and many of us caught Covid. So, I’ve been in a situation where I can observe how the virus spreads, how it effects people in different age groups, and what some of the long-term effects are.

I’m at a stage where I realize that much of what we are told is not about truly useful information; it’s about ratings. So, I just use the first-hand data I’ve gathered by living through and within the pandemic to make my decisions. That’s about it.

Have you considered the mere possibility that maybe your personal observations are not the whole story?
Regarding ratings, yes, the anti-mask/anti-vax lies churned out by right-wing media are about ratings and about control - they want to control their mouth-breather base, make them feel special and victimized at the same time..

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

 

[anna ~ grace]

I guess we'll see.

You make it sound like 'measures... in the interest of public safety, and the greater good' are a Bad Thing. We didn't need a pandemic to mandate seatbelts, smoking restrictions, no drink-driving, etc.

But pandemic restrictions will be temporary for two reasons - firstly, they're not relevant unless there's a pandemic, secondly, there are no votes in them.

I hear you about general safety measures, however. We have had other deadly, concerning ailments hit our shores. We didn’t see this level of response. Lockdowns. Church is closed, but Walmart’s safe. What? It’s just weird, and considering how survivable this virus is, compared to swine flu, Ebola, and various other awful things, I don’t see the need for the level of control, restrictions, mandates, and closures.

Especially as I’ve been living and working within this pandemic from the word “go”, and while it’s concerning and has done great damage, if grocery store workers can carry on with cloth face masks and hand sanitizer and life goes on because people need food, looking at the other circles of control, fear, and shutdowns makes them seem weird. And not entirely necessary.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Have you considered the mere possibility that maybe your personal observations are not the whole story?
Regarding ratings, yes, the anti-mask/anti-vax lies churned out by right-wing media are about ratings and about control - they want to control their mouth-breather base, make them feel special and victimized at the same time..

Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

I’d much rather trust my own observations and experiences over left-wing hysteria (let’s segregate and isolate the unvaccinated!) and right-wing hysteria (these vaccines are evil and no one should get them!). Both are ridiculous, and play on guilt, fear, pride, and divisiveness.

Neither accurately reflects what I have seen in my year-plus of watching all my co-workers catch Covid, dealing with it myself, dealing with probable long-term effects, watching most of my co-workers get vaccinated, and watching a few of my co-workers struggling with some weird medical problems they didn’t have prior to vaccination. Neither narrative is 100% true. At all. Both narratives are extreme, and fail to take into account individual needs, health, situations, and views.