COVID-19, the Eucharist, and Celiac Disease

[ArmyMatt]

Sure they did. Do throw some credible links about it ?

I don't know of any links, but I do know more than a few who were tortured in the gulags. a woman at my first parish was one "the KGB gave up on."

 

[prodromos]

So you believe every other miracle healing ever happening was for the salvation of that person’s soul and they were not given for any other reason ?

I don't know, sometimes I imagine it is simply God showering His children with His grace and mercy out of His abundant love for us.
In contrast, my father-in-law had almost nothing to do with Christ until God permitted him to suffer lung cancer. He went into remission after treatment but died from it some years later. From the time he developed cancer till his death he was in Church every day. He would have died apart from Christ if it wasn't for his illness. God wills that all should turn to Him and live, so I imagine that is behind pretty much everything God does for us, don't you agree?

So in other words you have nothing to back your story with ?

I have plenty. Come to Sydney and I will introduce you to them and they can put you in touch with their surgeons.

No I don’t know anyone like that and you just implied there was a great conspiracy and doctors are not telling us about miracles.

There is no conspiracy, simply that doctors don't like looking bad to their peers who usually assume that the original diagnosis made by the doctor was wrong. They don't want to have to defend something that they struggle to accept themselves so it simply goes unreported.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I don't know of any links, but I do know more than a few who were tortured in the gulags. a woman at my first parish was one "the KGB gave up on."

I don't know

Guys, let’s let it lie then. You don’t have anything apart from personal testimonies.

Also whatever these miracles are real or not at least they still serve some positive purpose.

 

[prodromos]

Guys, let’s let it lie then. You don’t have anything apart from personal testimonies.

Gee, all the Gospels are are personal testimonies. Should we take this Christ guy seriously?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Gee, all the Gospels are are personal testimonies.

So you rate every personal testimony as being equally reliable ?

Gospel being equally reliable as people who testified how their pet hamster got resurrected by the miraculous Holy Oil from that leaking Bible fiasco ? (True story)

Interesting.

 

[prodromos]

So you rate every personal testimony as being equally reliable ?

No, but I don't simply dismiss them as you have. There's nothing in this for me other than to join with those people in glorifying God. It doesn't profit me or the Orthodox Church one way or the other whether you believe me or the testimony of others. It's just sad that you seem to start from the position that everything we have told you must be untrue or that we ourselves have been duped.
Our experience in the Orthodox Church is one of God's constant outpouring of grace. The Church is the body of Christ so the Church is theanthropic, it is both human and divine. Thus the supranatural is the 'natural' state of affairs in the Church so it doesn't seem particularly odd to us that miracles occur so frequently in the Church. That is our understanding which is consistent with our experience. I can't speak for your understanding and experience.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Guys, let’s let it lie then. You don’t have anything apart from personal testimonies.

Also whatever these miracles are real or not at least they still serve some positive purpose.

we also have an experience that is consistent with Christianity's 2000 year history. and told you where to go so that you can see what we've seen.

 

[Hermit76]

Matthew 4:6.
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

People seem to always want to conduct tests. I'm personally glad that Orthodoxy steers clear of these theatrics.

Father Stephen Freeman tells a story of visiting a monastery with a myrrh streaming icon. A monk greeted him and served him a drink. They talked and Fr. Stephen eventually asked about the icon. The monk said with a sigh, "Yes, it streams myrrh... What are you to do." (In other words the spectator attention was not really wanted)

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

People seem to always want to conduct tests. I'm personally glad that Orthodoxy steers clear of these theatrics.

Isn’t it grand world where reoccurring regular miracles are not theatrical but asking to prove them is.

I can understand why people are so relieved that Orthodoxy “steers clear” of them.

There probably would have been way more happier and content people with their miracle if they hadn’t been told they were actually drinking sewage water in Mumbai

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...i-some-residents-call-it-a-miracle/100651.htm

The guy who who exposed the health risk had to go to exile to a country 4000 miles away because people were so emotionally wrapped up in their miracle that they got angry when deprived of it.

And yes I know it wasn’t an Orthodox miracle. This was just to illustrate the point.

 

[prodromos]

Isn’t it grand world where reoccurring regular miracles are not theatrical but asking to prove them is.

I can understand why people are so relieved that Orthodoxy “steers clear” of them.

There probably would have been way more happier and content people with their miracle if they hadn’t been told they were actually drinking sewage water in Mumbai

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...i-some-residents-call-it-a-miracle/100651.htm

The guy who who exposed the health risk had to go to exile to a country 4000 miles away because people were so emotionally wrapped up in their miracle that they got angry when deprived of it.

And yes I know it wasn’t an Orthodox miracle. This was just to illustrate the point.

 

[prodromos]

I recall an Orthodox Church where small drops of oil were discovered on the surface of an icon. The priest serving in the Church soon determined that the drops of oil came from a nearby vigil lamp. As the flame had "sputtered" it had caused small drops of oil to be ejected from the lamp.

We have many Holy Springs in the Orthodox Church. They all have a historical origin where the activity of a Saint or an Angel had caused water to inexplicably start flowing at that point. There is a spring on the beach near the Holy Iveron Monastery on Mt Athos where the Iveron icon of the Mother of God was brought to shore by the monk who saw it on the surface of the sea. Dig anywhere in the sand nearby and you get salt water, while the spring is fresh water.
There is a Holy Spring near the Skete of St Panteleimon which determined which Saint the Skete would be named after. They placed icons of the two Saints they were choosing between on the ground and prayed that God's will would be revealed. A spring formed in front of the icon of St Panteleimon and has continued to flow ever since.

There is a Holy Spring on the island of Thassos which was formed by the Archangel Michael when he appeared to an ascetic monk who was living there. The monk refused to accept that it was truly the archangel, so St Michael struck the ground with his spear saying, " in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" and water immediately began to flow. There are hundreds and hundreds of similar examples.

When Bishop Nektarios of Pentapolis died in hospital and the nurses began to undress him to clean his body, they threw his cardigan onto the next bed where the patient, a cripple, was immediately healed. Afterwards, the ward in which he had died began to smell so strongly of fragrant myrrh that they could no longer keep patients in there and so the ward was converted into an Orthodox Chapel. The body of St Nektarios remained incorrupt for 20 years after his death, with his hair and fingernails continuing to grow. Since then there have been countless miracles occur through the relics of St Nektarios.

Every year on the feast day of St Spyridon they replace the slippers on the feet of his incorruptible relics as the soles have worn out on the previous year's pair because of all the walking he has done, St Spyridon having healed many Orthodox Christians in hospitals around the world. He is known as the travelling saint.

 

[Hermit76]

Isn’t it grand world where reoccurring regular miracles are not theatrical but asking to prove them is.

I can understand why people are so relieved that Orthodoxy “steers clear” of them.

There probably would have been way more happier and content people with their miracle if they hadn’t been told they were actually drinking sewage water in Mumbai

https://www.christiantoday.com/arti...i-some-residents-call-it-a-miracle/100651.htm

The guy who who exposed the health risk had to go to exile to a country 4000 miles away because people were so emotionally wrapped up in their miracle that they got angry when deprived of it.

And yes I know it wasn’t an Orthodox miracle. This was just to illustrate the point.

How is it illustrating a point if it isn't Orthodox?

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

How is it illustrating a point if it isn't Orthodox?

Just demonstrates how people can believe something is a miracle even if in reality they are drinking sewage water.

Also demonstrates how psychologically people get addicted to their pet “miracles” so hard that reality is hard to comprehend and even then they are ready to drive the man who revealed the truth and probably saved some lives in to an exile for shattering their delusions.

Quite chilling isn’t it ?

As for not being Orthodox.....are you suggesting Orthodox have better miracles than others ?

 

[Hermit76]

Just demonstrates how people can believe something is a miracle even if in reality they are drinking sewage water.

Also demonstrates how psychologically people get addicted to their pet “miracles” so hard that reality is hard to comprehend and even then they are ready to drive the man who revealed the truth and probably saved some lives in to an exile for shattering their delusions.

Quite chilling isn’t it ?

As for not being Orthodox.....are you suggesting Orthodox have better miracles than others ?

Well, it really isn't about the miracles. As I said before, we shouldn't make a theatric show of miracles. Running a comparison wouldn't benefit anyone.

 

[prodromos]

Just demonstrates how people can believe something is a miracle even if in reality they are drinking sewage water.

But doesn't demonstrate that this is the case with Orthodox Christians.

Also demonstrates how psychologically people get addicted to their pet “miracles” so hard that reality is hard to comprehend and even then they are ready to drive the man who revealed the truth and probably saved some lives in to an exile for shattering their delusions.

And again, doesn't demonstrate that this is relevant to Orthodox Christian attitudes.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

But doesn't demonstrate that this is the case with Orthodox Christians.

So Orthodoxs have better miracles even if and especially because they are never allowed to be tested because theatrics and all that ?

And again, doesn't demonstrate that this is relevant to Orthodox Christian attitudes.

And Orthodox have better attitudes even if their miracles were found to be hoaxes ?

Human psychology being what it is I doubt the reactions would be that much different.

Perhaps you can entertain a thought that you might be tad biased on this issue.

 

[prodromos]

Perhaps you can entertain a thought that you might be tad biased on this issue.

Perhaps you could entertain a thought that you truly have no idea of what happens in the Orthodox Church.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So Orthodoxs have better miracles even if and especially because they are never allowed to be tested because theatrics and all that ?

actually, earlier on in this thread I said that these miracles have been tested. the Soviets tried all the time. skeptics have tested the Hawaiian and Taylor icons.

 

[Hermit76]

So Orthodoxs have better miracles even if and especially because they are never allowed to be tested because theatrics and all that ?



And Orthodox have better attitudes even if their miracles were found to be hoaxes ?

Human psychology being what it is I doubt the reactions would be that much different.

Perhaps you can entertain a thought that you might be tad biased on this issue.

What is your purpose in this conversation? Do you have an end goal?

 

[Justin-H.S.]

What is your purpose in this conversation? Do you have an end goal?

To disprove the hypothesis not with experimentation, but with rhetoric.