Covenant With Abraham "in the flesh" and Circumcision

[Mr. M]

The everlasting covenant with Abram became a most controversial and divisive issue
for the New Testament congregations. In Genesis 17 God changed Abram’s name to
Abraham to establish His everlasting covenant with him. God commanded that
circumcision of every male be the token of that covenant.

Genesis 17:13 He that is born into your house and he that is purchased must be
circumcised and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

The apostle Paul was tasked by the Holy Spirit to set this issue in order for the church,
and it is addressed extensively in his letters. The key to a right understanding is in the
verse included: my covenant shall be in your flesh.
The Law of Moses included commandments pertaining to circumcision, while also acknowledging there was a spiritual component to a full understanding of the covenant law.

Jesus used this as a point to illustrate the greater spiritual truth in understanding
the Word of God.
John 7:22-24 Moses gave unto you circumcision, not because it is of Moses but of the fathers, and you on the Sabbath day circumcise a male. If circumcision is performed on
the Sabbath day that the Law of Moses should not be broken, why be angry with me for healing a man on the Sabbath? Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment.

The need to ultimately be circumcised in the heart is addressed in
the book of Moses.
Deuteronomy 10:16. Circumcise the foreskins of your heart and
be no more stiff necked.
Deuteronomy 30:6. And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and
the hearts of your children to love the Lord your God with all your heart and
all your soul that you may live.

With this in mind, I will leave Paul’s in depth arguments for you to study,
and go directly to his conclusions.

1 Corinthians 7:19. Circumcision nor uncircumcision is not what matters,
but obedience to God.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision
avails anything, but faith working by love.

Philippians 3:3. For we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit
and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

[ralliann]

The everlasting covenant with Abram became a most controversial and divisive issue
for the New Testament congregations. In Genesis 17 God changed Abram’s name to
Abraham to establish His everlasting covenant with him. God commanded that
circumcision of every male be the token of that covenant.

The covenant in Genesis 17 is a covenant of kings for seed from his loins, and kings from Sarah. it is for a sign of this royal covenant.
Kings (which are anointed ones)
Ge 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Ge 17:16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

Genesis 17:13 He that is born into your house and he that is purchased must be
circumcised and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

The apostle Paul was tasked by the Holy Spirit to set this issue in order for the church,
and it is addressed extensively in his letters. The key to a right understanding is in the
verse included: my covenant shall be in your flesh.
The Law of Moses included commandments pertaining to circumcision, while also acknowledging there was a spiritual component to a full understanding of the covenant law.

Circumcision was required to partake of the Passover sacrifice which was given for a fulfillment of the promises made in covenant made in Genesis 15 with the fourth generation of his seed.
Moses did not give a king in the Sinai covenant. Nor were the Fathers under that covenant.
De 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Jesus used this as a point to illustrate the greater spiritual truth in understanding
the Word of God.
John 7:22-24 Moses gave unto you circumcision, not because it is of Moses but of the fathers, and you on the Sabbath day circumcise a male. If circumcision is performed on
the Sabbath day that the Law of Moses should not be broken, why be angry with me for healing a man on the Sabbath? Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment.

The Sabbath was a sign of the Sinai/Horeb covenant
Ex 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Ex 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

The need to ultimately be circumcised in the heart is addressed in
the book of Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 10:16. Circumcise the foreskins of your heart and
be no more stiff necked.
Deuteronomy 30:6. And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and
the hearts of your children to love the Lord your God with all your heart and
all your soul that you may live.

With this in mind, I will leave Paul’s in depth arguments for you to study,
and go directly to his conclusions.

1 Corinthians 7:19. Circumcision nor uncircumcision is not what matters,
but obedience to God.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision
avails anything, but faith working by love.

Philippians 3:3. For we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit
and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh.

Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

 

[Clare73]

The everlasting covenant with Abram became a most controversial and divisive issue
for the New Testament congregations. In Genesis 17 God changed Abram’s name to
Abraham to establish His everlasting covenant with him. God commanded that
circumcision of every male be the token of that covenant.

Genesis 17:13 He that is born into your house and he that is purchased must be
circumcised and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

The apostle Paul was tasked by the Holy Spirit to set this issue in order for the church,
and it is addressed extensively in his letters. The key to a right understanding is in the
verse included: my covenant shall be in your flesh.
The Law of Moses included commandments pertaining to circumcision, while also acknowledging there was a spiritual component to a full understanding of the covenant law.

Jesus used this as a point to illustrate the greater spiritual truth in understanding
the Word of God.
John 7:22-24 Moses gave unto you circumcision, not because it is of Moses but of the fathers, and you on the Sabbath day circumcise a male. If circumcision is performed on
the Sabbath day that the Law of Moses should not be broken, why be angry with me for healing a man on the Sabbath? Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment.

The need to ultimately be circumcised in the heart is addressed in
the book of Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 10:16. Circumcise the foreskins of your heart and
be no more stiff necked.
Deuteronomy 30:6. And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and
the hearts of your children to love the Lord your God with all your heart and
all your soul that you may live.

With this in mind, I will leave Paul’s in depth arguments for you to study,
and go directly to his conclusions.

1 Corinthians 7:19. Circumcision nor uncircumcision is not what matters,
but obedience to God.
Galatians 5:6. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision
avails anything, but faith working by love.
Philippians 3:3. For we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit
and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh.

The New Covenant "circumcision" is baptism where,
in dying (Romans 6:3) and being buried with Christ, we "put off" the flesh; i.e., sinful nature
(Colossians 2:11-12), as they "cut off" the flesh in circumcision.

 

[BABerean2]

The New Covenant "circumcision" is baptism

Which of the two different baptisms below is related to salvation?

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


What is the one baptism of our faith related to salvation in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in this passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


.

 

[Clare73]

Which of the two different baptisms below is related to salvation?

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


What is the one baptism of our faith related to salvation in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in this passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,.

NT water baptism is not salvation (Romans 6:1-5).

It is the sign of the New Covenant of grace, as
circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Colossians 2:11-12).

 

[ralliann]

NT water baptism is not salvation (Romans 6:1-5).

It is the sign of the New Covenant of grace, as
circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Colossians 2:11-12).

Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

 

[BABerean2]

It is the sign of the New Covenant of grace, as
circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Colossians 2:11-12).

Paul reveals below the circumcision found in Colossians 2:11-12. It is the sign of the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and found fulfilled in 1 John 2:27.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

 

[Clare73]

Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Circumcision will be a sign of the covenant (Genesis 17:11).

 

[ralliann]

Circumcision will be a sign of the covenant (Genesis 17:11).

Yep. Paul also calls it a seal. Whatever that means?
Any ideas on that?

 

[Clare73]

Yep. Paul also calls it a seal. Whatever that means?
Any ideas on that?

A mark of ownership.

 

[BABerean2]

Yep. Paul also calls it a seal. Whatever that means?
Any ideas on that?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


.

 

[Davy]

The everlasting covenant with Abram became a most controversial and divisive issue
for the New Testament congregations. In Genesis 17 God changed Abram’s name to
Abraham to establish His everlasting covenant with him. God commanded that
circumcision of every male be the token of that covenant.

Genesis 17:13 He that is born into your house and he that is purchased must be
circumcised and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

The apostle Paul was tasked by the Holy Spirit to set this issue in order for the church,
and it is addressed extensively in his letters. The key to a right understanding is in the
verse included: my covenant shall be in your flesh.
The Law of Moses included commandments pertaining to circumcision, while also acknowledging there was a spiritual component to a full understanding of the covenant law.
....

The whole premise of the above post is just total malarkey!

In Galatians 3, and in Romans 4, Apostle Paul made it plain that FLESH CIRCUMCISION never... was part of the Promise by Faith first given to Abraham.

Rom 4:8-16
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Paul's subject is that Abraham's FAITH was reckoned by God for righteousness, not the act of flesh circumcision!

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Abraham's Faith was reckoned while he was NOT YET CIRCUMCISED.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Paul is saying that Abraham's Faith was not reckoned by the later sign of circumcision, which is only to serve as a 'token'. Abraham became the spiritual father of all that believe because of his Faith he had WHILE NOT YET CIRCUMCISED. That is what Apostle Paul is saying.

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Just cannot tie a requirement of flesh circumcision to Abraham's Faith on the Promise. Flesh circumcision is totally independent of that Faith (which is about faith of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, by the way. See end of John 8).

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Paul makes it plain again, Abraham's faith on that "promise" God gave was not involving the law, but through Faith. God's law hadn't even been given yet at that time of Abraham, as Paul explains in Galatians 3, that the law was given 430 years later.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Since God gave that Promise by Faith, and believing the Promise is counted as righteousness, then if it were by the law like with a requirement to be flesh circumcised, then the law would make the Promise null and void, and of none effect.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV

Thus it is literal IGNORANCE to preach a flesh circumcision requirement as part of Faith on The New Covenant Jesus Christ. NO CHRISTIAN is required to get flesh circumcision. It was the false Pharisee Jew converts of Acts 15 that were trying to force Gentiles to get flesh circumcision in order to be saved by Jesus Christ. The Apostles and elders of Christ's Church in Jerusalem rebuked those Pharisee converts, as Paul also did.

 

[Mr. M]

Thus it is literal IGNORANCE to preach a flesh circumcision requirement as part of Faith on The New Covenant Jesus Christ. NO CHRISTIAN is required to get flesh circumcision. It was the false Pharisee Jew converts of Acts 15 that were trying to force Gentiles to get flesh circumcision in order to be saved by Jesus Christ. The Apostles and elders of Christ's Church in Jerusalem rebuked those Pharisee converts, as Paul also did.

1 Corinthians 7:19. Circumcision nor uncircumcision is not what matters, but obedience to God.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything,
but faith working by love.

Philippians 3:3. For we are the circumcision which worship God in the spirit
and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh.

 

[Mr. M]

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The key to a right understanding is in the
verse included: my covenant shall be in your flesh.
The Law of Moses included commandments pertaining to circumcision, while also acknowledging there was a spiritual component to a full understanding of the covenant law.

The need to ultimately be circumcised in the heart is addressed in
the book of Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 10:16. Circumcise the foreskins of your heart and
be no more stiff necked.
Deuteronomy 30:6. And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and
the hearts of your children to love the Lord your God with all your heart and
all your soul that you may live.

 

[Doug Brents]

What is the one baptism of our faith related to salvation in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in this passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

This is a good question, but to focus only on this one passage might give one a faulty understanding of the answer.

When we look at Acts 22:16, Acts 8:36, 1 Peter 3:20-21, and Eph 5:25-26; and then consider what is said in Rom 6:1-4 and Col 2:11-14 about the actions of the Spirit during baptism, the only conclusion we can reach is that New Testament baptism is in water during which the Spirit acts to remove our sin through the power and authority of Jesus’ blood.

We must remember that there is only ONE author of Scripture: the Holy Spirit. The men who put pen to paper were just ghost writers. The Bible is one consistent message. Yes, it has different writers and different audiences for different parts of it and understanding that helps our understanding of the overall message, but taking one passage (like Eph 4:1-5) and ignoring other passages (like the ones cited above) that shed greater light on the meaning of that passage leads to misunderstandings that can leave souls lost.

That is what happened in this case.
Looking at 1 Pet 3 we see that it explicitly says that water baptism is the point at which we are saved.
Looking at Eph 5 we see that it is through washing of water (baptism) that Christ makes the Church pure and spotless by the power of His blood.
Looking at Acts 8 we understand that water baptism must have been part of the Gospel story shared by Phillip, because it is the Eunuch who asks for baptism in water as they are passing some.
In Acts 22 we see that Ananias told Paul to get up and be baptized (if it were Spirit baptism it could have been done where he sat) and that Paul was still in his sin even after having believed three days before.

 

[rwb]

NT water baptism is not salvation (Romans 6:1-5).

It is the sign of the New Covenant of grace, as
circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Colossians 2:11-12).

I think that you are saying water baptism is a only a sign of the New Covenant of grace, but is it? It can be, but since many who have received the sign, later prove to be in unbelief, can we really say water baptism is the sign of grace? I often hear people say that water baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. That could be true, but since it is not always true, I believe this language shows a lack of full understanding of what it means to be in covenant with the Lord.

Under the Old Covenant every new born male received the sign of circumcision at 8 days of age. The sign of circumcision was performed on every male child whether or not they were according to grace of faith. Even those proven to be unbelievers received the Covenant sign. The same truth exists under the New Covenant sign. Many, later proven to be in unbelief are water baptized.

When we understand that being in a Covenant body does not mean that all who belong to the Covenant body are saved, then we realize the sign, given by our Lord, is the thing that separates us from the rest of the world. This is the purpose for both the sign given in the Old and the New. Receiving the sign is that which makes the church, whether old or new Covenant congregations different, or separated from the world of unbelief.

Since it was the Old Covenant nation that was given the oracles of God, the law & prophets, be being in the Old Covenant body through the prophets, priests and laws the nation had great advantage. Because faith by grace comes by hearing the word. The same is true under the New Covenant church. The church has been given the Gospel, preachers, teachers, evangelists, so that the New Covenant body can hear the Gospel, believe and be saved by grace through faith.

This is why we are given the sign of water baptism in the New Covenant. Not as a sign of having received the grace of our Lord in salvation, but as a sign pointing to the baptism of the Holy Spirit which alone by grace through faith will save us.

It makes better sense to me, and causes less confusion of salvation through water baptism to tell people that water baptism is sign of being in a Covenant body where salvation may be found by whosoever, according to grace through faith might believe and be eternally saved through baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Clare73]

I think that you are saying water baptism is a only a sign of the New Covenant of grace, but is it? It can be, but since many who have received the sign, later prove to be in unbelief, can we really say water baptism is the sign of grace? I often hear people say that water baptism is an outward sign of an inward change. That could be true, but since it is not always true, I believe this language shows a lack of full understanding of what it means to be in covenant with the Lord.

So how do we correlate the internal grace being required, as in circumcision--the sign of the Abrahamic covenant of grace--while not all circumcision was internal, of the heart, but only internal circumcision of the heart by grace made one a Jew, who were the only ones in covenant with God (Romans 2:28-29)?

Under the Old Covenant every new born male received the sign of circumcision at 8 days of age.

Actually circumcision was given as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant of grace, and made one a Jew (Romans 2:28-29), including Gentiles; i.e., God's people with whom he was in covenant.

The sign of circumcision was performed on every male child whether or not they were according to grace of faith. Even those proven to be unbelievers received the Covenant sign. The same truth exists under the New Covenant sign. Many, later proven to be in unbelief are water baptized.

When we understand that being in a Covenant body does not mean that all who belong to the Covenant body are saved, then we realize the sign, given by our Lord, is the thing that separates us from the rest of the world. This is the purpose for both the sign given in the Old and the New. Receiving the sign is that which makes the church, whether old or new Covenant congregations, different or separated from the world of unbelief.

Agreed. . .the people of covenant are made up of wheat and tares.

Since it was the Old Covenant nation that was given the oracles of God, the law & prophets, be being in the Old Covenant body through the prophets, priests and laws the nation had great advantage. Because faith by grace comes by hearing the word. The same is true under the New Covenant church. The church has been given the Gospel, preachers, teachers, evangelists, so that the New Covenant body can hear the Gospel, believe and be saved by grace through faith.

This is why we are given the sign of water baptism in the New Covenant. Not as a sign of having received the grace of our Lord in salvation, but as a sign pointing to the baptism of the Holy Spirit which alone by grace through faith will save us.

It makes better sense to me, and causes less confusion of salvation through water baptism to tell people that water baptism is sign of being in a Covenant body where salvation may be found by whosoever, according to grace through faith might believe and be eternally saved through baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Well done.

Does one need to be in that covenant body to find salvation according to grace through faith?
It seems the model today is otherwise.

 

[rwb]

So how do we correlate the internal grace being required, as in circumcision--the sign of the Abrahamic covenant of grace, while not all circumcision was internal, of the heart, but only internal circumcision of the heart by grace made one a Jew, who were the only ones in covenant with God (Romans 2:28-29)?
Actually circumcision was given as a sign of the Abrahamic covenant of grace, and made one a Jew (Romans 2:28-29); i.e., God's people with whom he was in covenant.

Agreed. . .the people of covenant are made up of wheat and tares.

Circumcision, like water baptism is a sign of being in fellowship with the whole Covenant body, outwardly. To be a Jew one must be circumcised to prove they are of their father Abraham, outwardly. But as you show the true circumcision bringing one into the Covenant of Grace is inwardly, and of the heart. Same truth applies to the new Covenant body (church). Outward water baptism is proof that we belong to the Covenant body outwardly, but water baptism does not prove we are of the Covenant of Grace. That comes only by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Clare73]

Circumcision, like water baptism is a sign of being in fellowship with the whole Covenant body, outwardly. To be a Jew one must be circumcised to prove they are of their father Abraham, outwardly. But as you show the true circumcision bringing one into the Covenant of Grace is inwardly, and of the heart. Same truth applies to the new Covenant body (church). Outward water baptism is proof that we belong to the Covenant body outwardly, but water baptism does not prove we are
of the Covenant of Grace. That comes only by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Would that not come only by the new birth?
And keeping in mind that the (invisible) church, which is the body of Christ, is only the redeemed,
while the (visible) church is both wheat and tares.

 

[Mark Quayle]

The whole premise of the above post is just total malarkey!

In Galatians 3, and in Romans 4, Apostle Paul made it plain that FLESH CIRCUMCISION never... was part of the Promise by Faith first given to Abraham.

Rom 4:8-16
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Paul's subject is that Abraham's FAITH was reckoned by God for righteousness, not the act of flesh circumcision!

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Abraham's Faith was reckoned while he was NOT YET CIRCUMCISED.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Paul is saying that Abraham's Faith was not reckoned by the later sign of circumcision, which is only to serve as a 'token'. Abraham became the spiritual father of all that believe because of his Faith he had WHILE NOT YET CIRCUMCISED. That is what Apostle Paul is saying.

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Just cannot tie a requirement of flesh circumcision to Abraham's Faith on the Promise. Flesh circumcision is totally independent of that Faith (which is about faith of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, by the way. See end of John 8).

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Paul makes it plain again, Abraham's faith on that "promise" God gave was not involving the law, but through Faith. God's law hadn't even been given yet at that time of Abraham, as Paul explains in Galatians 3, that the law was given 430 years later.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Since God gave that Promise by Faith, and believing the Promise is counted as righteousness, then if it were by the law like with a requirement to be flesh circumcised, then the law would make the Promise null and void, and of none effect.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV

Thus it is literal IGNORANCE to preach a flesh circumcision requirement as part of Faith on The New Covenant Jesus Christ. NO CHRISTIAN is required to get flesh circumcision. It was the false Pharisee Jew converts of Acts 15 that were trying to force Gentiles to get flesh circumcision in order to be saved by Jesus Christ. The Apostles and elders of Christ's Church in Jerusalem rebuked those Pharisee converts, as Paul also did.

I'm not sure I understand your contention. When I read the OP I get no sense of "a flesh circumcision requirement as part of Faith on The New Covenant Jesus Christ"