Post-Mil Only Covenant Theology vs. Dispensational Theology

[Gideon]

Below is a brief comparison showing the main differences between covenant theology and dispensational theology. These are the two prevailing (and contrary) views concerning Israel and the Church. There is a 3rd view called 'New Covenant' theology, and, if you are of that persuasion, feel free to explain it here.

Anyway, here are the main views. Please ignore the prefix and vote on the poll. (It is for everyone)

Dispensational Theology

1. God has two distinct people – Israel and the Church.
2. The Church age was a parenthesis in God’s dealing with Israel.
3. God’s promises to Israel were postponed till after the rapture.
4. After a Jewish tribulation revival, their ‘dispensation’ will resume.
5. Worship in the millennium includes re-instituted temple sacrifice.
6. The promised temple is an example of what must yet be fulfilled.
7. Modern Israel proves not all promises are fulfilled in the Church.

Covenant Theology

1. God has always only had but one spiritual people.
2. The Church (incl. Jew & Gentile) actually is true Israel.
3. God’s promises to Israel are fulfilled in Christ’s Church.
4. There will be a revival of Jews but it will be into the Church.
5. Redemption is in the cross and sacrifice is finished forever.
6. Even if a temple gets rebuilt it is unnecessary and irrelevant.
7. The modern restoration of the nation of Israel is coincidental.

 

[BABerean2]

Galatians chapter 3 is a problem for both Dispensational Theology and Reformed Covenant Theology.

In Galatians 3:16 the Apostle Paul makes it clear that the promises made to Abraham were made only to Christ and not to all of the descendants of Abraham.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

We also find at the end of the chapter that those in-Christ are the adopted seed of Abraham, who inherit the promise.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Dispensationalists attempt to change the One Seed to the many seeds to get their two peoples of God doctrine to work. They are often quick to point out the differences between Abraham's spiritual seed and his physical seed, but turn around and ignore Romans 9:6-8.

Most of the Reformed Covenant persuasion hold to the idea found in chapter 19 of the Westminster Confession of Faith which claims the Ten Commandments also apply to Adam in the Garden before the Fall.
However, Adam and Eve had no mother nor did they have anyone to commit adultery with.

Paul clearly states that the law was added 430 years after the promise to Abraham.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Therefore, the law cannot be applied to Adam or Abraham, because it was added later due to transgressions.

Hebrews chapter 8 also produces problems for both of those mentioned above.

Reformed Covenant Theologians tend to claim the New Covenant is a "new administration" of the Old Covenant, even though Jeremiah chapter 31 says the New Covenant would not be like the Old Covenant.

Dispensationalists tend to ignore Hebrews chapter 8, because verse 6 says it is "now" in effect. Since this is the same covenant found in Romans chapter 11, it again destroys the two peoples of God doctrine.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


New Covenant Theology solves the problems above by taking the text at face value, instead of trying to force it to fit a manmade doctrine from the Westminster Confession of Faith or the Scofield Reference Bible.

The problem is that once someone has latched onto one of these positions, getting them to make changes is extremely difficult.

This has produced the condemnation and name-calling often seen on this forum.
.

 

[Hazrus]

New covenant theology sounds about right to me. I didn't know it was called that before I googled it!

 

[BABerean2]

New covenant theology sounds about right to me. I didn't know it was called that before I googled it!

These links may be helpful, but they will take some time to digest.

NC Theology David H J Gay Ministry: It is Finished
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar2bwFoazA4


NC Theology David H J Gay Ministry: His Testimony (How did he get to New Covenant Theology?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAUfMiIhOkI

Pastor John G. Reisinger
Faulty Presuppositions of Cov. and Disp. Theology:
Christian Answers TV (Audio Only)

What is New Covenant Theology? Part 1
(It is not Reformed Covenant Theology)

The Old Covenant/ New Covenant and the Sabbath

 

[BABerean2]

Christ: The Seed of the Everlasting New Blood Covenant

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (protoevangelium)

Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (seed of Abraham)

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

..........................................................................................................

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

(from the 1599 Geneva Bible)

Who Confirmed The Covenant?

http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023


.....................................................................................................

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (NKJV)

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said,It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; (end of temple sacrifice)


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(The promises were made only to Christ.)

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The law was added after the promise to Abraham.)

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The law was added because of sin until Christ could come.)

Gal 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. (ESV)

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(All of the promise of our inheritance comes through Christ.)


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
(There is no such thing as salvation based on bloodline.)


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
(The New Covenant was first made with Israelites like Paul. The Gentiles were grafted in later.)


Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnantaccording to the election of grace.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
("so"= Gk "houto"= in this manner)

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(This is the New Blood Covenant of Christ, now in effect. It is not waiting on a future fulfillment.)

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (from Jeremiah chapter 31)

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(This happens when the Holy Spirit is inside of us.)

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (The Sinai Covenant is finished.)


Heb_9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb_9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb_9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Heb_10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

.

 

[Hazrus]

BABerean2, I've read a lot of the stuff you have written in multiple threads. I don't remember reading much I didn't theologically agree with.

Everyone, listen to this guy. He's got some good ideas...

 

[BABerean2]

BABerean2, I've read a lot of the stuff you have written in multiple threads. I don't remember reading much I didn't theologically agree with.

Everyone, listen to this guy. He's got some good ideas...

I would like to thank our Brother Gideon for starting this thread.
Hopefully, it will continue in a positive tone.
.

 

[Gideon]

Dispensationalists either infer or state that the entire levitical system will be repeated in the Millennium. Moderates think that it will simply serve as a ‘reminder’ of Christ’s death. Extreme dispensationalists infer that it will be the basis of millennium atonement. In either case all disps. accord an elite position to ethnic Israel in the millennium.

I agree that option #2 is the better version, but its adherents tend to overlook the possibility that God may have orchestrated the modern gathering of Israel for the purpose of bringing them together for another chance of finding Jesus Messiah. (Romans 11:25-28)

'New Covenant Theology' seems the same as C.T. insofar as modern Israel is concerned, however it is very different in how it sees the law. Believers are under the 'law of Christ' - not the 10 commandments. This is a concept that is not well explained by bible teachers today, but it deserves our attention IMO.

 

[BABerean2]

Dispensationalists either infer or state that the entire levitical system will be repeated in the Millennium. Moderates think that it will simply serve as a ‘reminder’ of Christ’s death. Extreme dispensationalists infer that it will be the basis of millennium atonement. In either case all disps. accord an elite position to ethnic Israel in the millennium.

I agree that option #2 is the better version, but its adherents tend to overlook the possibility that God may have orchestrated the modern gathering of Israel for the purpose of bringing them together for another chance of finding Jesus Messiah. (Romans 11:25-28)

'New Covenant Theology' seems the same as C.T. insofar as modern Israel is concerned, however it is very different in how it sees the law. Believers are under the 'law of Christ' - not the 10 commandments. This is a concept that is not well explained by bible teachers today, but it deserves our attention IMO.

The short Bible studies done by David H. J. Gay on YouTube titled "New Covenant Theology Made Simple" have been of great benefit to me. All of his studies are based on a plain reading of scripture.
This one is on "the law of Christ".

 

[GreatistheLord]

Dispensationalists either infer or state that the entire levitical system will be repeated in the Millennium. Moderates think that it will simply serve as a ‘reminder’ of Christ’s death. Extreme dispensationalists infer that it will be the basis of millennium atonement. In either case all disps. accord an elite position to ethnic Israel in the millennium.

I agree that option #2 is the better version, but its adherents tend to overlook the possibility that God may have orchestrated the modern gathering of Israel for the purpose of bringing them together for another chance of finding Jesus Messiah. (Romans 11:25-28)

'New Covenant Theology' seems the same as C.T. insofar as modern Israel is concerned, however it is very different in how it sees the law. Believers are under the 'law of Christ' - not the 10 commandments. This is a concept that is not well explained by bible teachers today, but it deserves our attention IMO.

This isnt part of the definition of dispensationalism IMO, Ive never heard
Anyone propose it. Im sure there are fringes who can say anything on both sides.

 

[BABerean2]

This isnt part of the definition of dispensationalism IMO, Ive never heard
Anyone propose it. Im sure there are fringes who can say anything on both sides.

Dr. Dwight Pentecost was a well known professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. In his book "Things to Come" he makes a reference to a future temple in Jerusalem with renewed animal sacrifices that serve as a memorial to the work of the Cross.

There are also many Dispensationalists who claim that the period of "Grace" ends at the pretrib rapture of the Church and then God goes back to dealing with Israel, under the Old Covenant system.
.

 

[GreatistheLord]

Its coincidental But its not a defining aspect of dispensationalism, so lets not let it be used as a way to discredit it.

 

[BABerean2]

Its coincidental But its not a defining aspect of dispensationalism, so lets not let it be used as a way to discredit it.

It is difficult for the rest of us to know what Dispensationalists believe.
At times, it would seem they are not sure themselves.

 

[Gideon]

This isnt part of the definition of dispensationalism IMO, Ive never heard
Anyone propose it. Im sure there are fringes who can say anything on both sides.

GreatistheLord, which part of my definition are you referring to? Here are the defining points of classical dispensationalism:

1. God has two distinct people – Israel and the Church.
2. The Church age was a parenthesis in God’s dealing with Israel.
3. God’s promises to Israel were postponed till after the rapture.
4. After a Jewish tribulation revival, their ‘dispensation’ will resume.
5. Worship in the millennium includes re-instituted temple sacrifice.
6. The promised temple is an example of what must yet be fulfilled.
7. Modern Israel proves not all promises are fulfilled in the Church.

 

[Rae46]

Hi Guys! I'm new here...I've been looking for a forum where I hope to be able to engage in end times discussions without the seemingly required 'stacks on' approach. Why do people feel they have to do that? Anyway, this discussion seems interesting, so I hope you don't mind me jumping in.
As far as the OP goes...I chose CT. There doesn't seem to me to be a huge difference between CT and NCT. The say it's the "Law of Christ" rather than the 10 commandments that separates them, but to be perfectly honest, doesn't Jesus elsewhere pretty much restate the 10 commandments, omitting only the Sabbath? He also goes on to explain that no man can fulfill the 10...if we hate, we have murdered, etc. And the teaching he gives in the sermon on the Mount (which I understand is where the NCT people pull their 'law' from) is pretty impossible to follow too: "be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect".
I'm far from a theologian, but to my eyes...God's standards of morals just are as he is unchanging. They were in the OT, and they still are in the NT...and in both mankind are unable to live up to them. But in and through Christ we should not ignore them...hence the process of sanctification. So...CT or NCT, I don't mind. But I do feel that Dispensational Theology misses the mark. Why would you want to go back to the old ways? Everything in the OT including, I believe, Israel, was pointing towards Christ and the relationship he would have with his people, the elect. To go back sort of suggests to me that somehow the fulfillment of all that was not sufficient or right. I can't really understand that!
Just in regards to the conversation above...there was mentioned that the Dispensationalist believe in a new temple with renewed sacrifices. I've heard that too...it's perhaps the biggest issue I have with that view. I don't believe scripture gives credence to much of it, but that part...well...nope, just wrong!
Also....I wouldn't mind knowing what everyone thinks about what scripture teaches for national Israel. Do you think God is done with them yet? Do you reckon Romans 9-11 could suggest he isn't? What about the fact that against all odds, they're back in the land as a nation?? Dispensationalist seem to think that this is one of the 'big' issues they can throw against us. I don't really think it's an issue, myself, but I am interested in what others here think!

 

[BABerean2]

Hi Guys! I'm new here...I've been looking for a forum where I hope to be able to engage in end times discussions without the seemingly required 'stacks on' approach. Why do people feel they have to do that? Anyway, this discussion seems interesting, so I hope you don't mind me jumping in.
As far as the OP goes...I chose CT. There doesn't seem to me to be a huge difference between CT and NCT. The say it's the "Law of Christ" rather than the 10 commandments that separates them, but to be perfectly honest, doesn't Jesus elsewhere pretty much restate the 10 commandments, omitting only the Sabbath? He also goes on to explain that no man can fulfill the 10...if we hate, we have murdered, etc. And the teaching he gives in the sermon on the Mount (which I understand is where the NCT people pull their 'law' from) is pretty impossible to follow too: "be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect".
I'm far from a theologian, but to my eyes...God's standards of morals just are as he is unchanging. They were in the OT, and they still are in the NT...and in both mankind are unable to live up to them. But in and through Christ we should not ignore them...hence the process of sanctification. So...CT or NCT, I don't mind. But I do feel that Dispensational Theology misses the mark. Why would you want to go back to the old ways? Everything in the OT including, I believe, Israel, was pointing towards Christ and the relationship he would have with his people, the elect. To go back sort of suggests to me that somehow the fulfillment of all that was not sufficient or right. I can't really understand that!
Just in regards to the conversation above...there was mentioned that the Dispensationalist believe in a new temple with renewed sacrifices. I've heard that too...it's perhaps the biggest issue I have with that view. I don't believe scripture gives credence to much of it, but that part...well...nope, just wrong!
Also....I wouldn't mind knowing what everyone thinks about what scripture teaches for national Israel. Do you think God is done with them yet? Do you reckon Romans 9-11 could suggest he isn't? What about the fact that against all odds, they're back in the land as a nation?? Dispensationalist seem to think that this is one of the 'big' issues they can throw against us. I don't really think it's an issue, myself, but I am interested in what others here think!

Welcome to the forum.

New Covenant Theology seems to be what the Apostle Paul taught. It seems to be the teaching that should unite all of the denominations. However, traditions die very hard.

During the last 160 years, Dispensational Theology has overtaken most of the evangelical Church in America. Those who dare to doubt it, often find themselves under attack by those who are supposed to be our Brothers and Sisters in-Christ.

Romans 9-11 teaches that salvation has nothing to do with bloodline as we find in Romans 9:6-8.

Dispensationalists have redefined Romans 11:26-27, by changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, (Greek- houto) to the word "then", which is an adverb of time. I have actually heard TV preachers say this.

They are attempting to turn it into a verse about "national salvation", at some future point in time.

However, the covenant in the passage has to be the New Covenant which is "now" in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6.

They also tend to claim that "all" of the Israelites are "partially" blinded instead of admitting that part of them were blinded and part of them were not blinded.
Many times you will hear it implied that the Church today is a "Gentile " Church, which is not the truth.
I know people who are Jewish Christians.

They attempt to say the time of the Gentiles ends at the pretrib rapture, instead of at the Second Coming.

The Dispensational interpretation turns Paul into a schizophrenic by claiming in Romans 9:6-8 that Salvation is not about bloodline and then turn around in chapter 11 and claim it is related to bloodline.

The belief that God is going back to the Old, obsolete Sinai covenant during a future 70th week of Daniel is the weakest part of the whole system. They claim the period of Grace ends 7 years before the Second Coming. Therefore, the New Covenant must end, because the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a necessary part of the New Covenant.

However, we find in Hebrews chapter 13 that the New Covenant lasts forever.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul issued a warning in Galatians chapter 1 that there is only one Gospel.
I would not dare to imply that there is now any type of salvation outside of the New Blood Covenant of Grace, completed at Calvary.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

If we want modern Jews to be saved, we need to make sure they hear the Gospel.
.

 

[Gideon]

Welcome to the forum Rae. Your thinking is balanced. Dispensationalism is wrong for the very reasons that you mention. However, it is fair to say, that they have stood up for Israel - for the wrong reasons IMO - but they have stood up for them. No, I dont think God is done with Israel yet! That does not mean we should support every aspect of Zionism but we should support them against the unfair opposition they receive from their neighbours and from the UN.

Yes, it is possible to be Covt. Theology (or NCT) as well as supporting Israel. However, God has not put them there to create a new dispensation. He has put them there to position them for a fiery trial that will bring them face to face with Jesus.

 

[Rae46]

Hi BABerean. I completely agree with you. True Israel is not by bloodline...Paul makes that clear in Romans 9. It is also plain that salvation only comes through faith in Christ, and that many Jews (as well as those from every nation and tongue) have come to that saving faith. I cannot understand how people could think salvation could come any differently now that Jesus has come, died, and rose for us. I would think that the passage that states that He is THE way, is fairly self evident!
But I do think that Romans 11 gives room to believe that God plans to bring a revival of sorts to national Israel towards the time of Christ's second coming. And by that I mean large numbers of Jews coming to faith in Jesus. The passage seems to clearly delineate between 'Israel' or Jews, and the 'elect' or Gentiles. Even though in chapter 9 Paul states that not all Jews are elect, and therefore the elect are 'true' Israel, he still goes on in the next two chapters to hold to that distinguishing explanation of peoples. He seems keen to make the elect Gentiles know that the natural branches could be grafted back in...in fact he seems to think that their full inclusion will bring untold blessings for the whole world!!
Now...while I see Romans 11 to say that it could happen, and I see the Jews back in their land as a possible confirmation of this....I'm not going to die on a hill protecting this idea! Either way God's will will be done, and it will be glorious, and will bring Him glory and praise. But I confess I find it all very interesting, and will be watching for large numbers of Jews turning to Christ. You have to admit, that would be a wondrous thing. It saddens me that they've missed out on their own messiah...how they waited, and when he came, they couldn't see it.

 

[Rae46]

Hi Gideon...thanks...and I agree with you completely!

 

[BABerean2]

Hi BABerean. I completely agree with you. True Israel is not by bloodline...Paul makes that clear in Romans 9. It is also plain that salvation only comes through faith in Christ, and that many Jews (as well as those from every nation and tongue) have come to that saving faith. I cannot understand how people could think salvation could come any differently now that Jesus has come, died, and rose for us. I would think that the passage that states that He is THE way, is fairly self evident!
But I do think that Romans 11 gives room to believe that God plans to bring a revival of sorts to national Israel towards the time of Christ's second coming. And by that I mean large numbers of Jews coming to faith in Jesus. The passage seems to clearly delineate between 'Israel' or Jews, and the 'elect' or Gentiles. Even though in chapter 9 Paul states that not all Jews are elect, and therefore the elect are 'true' Israel, he still goes on in the next two chapters to hold to that distinguishing explanation of peoples. He seems keen to make the elect Gentiles know that the natural branches could be grafted back in...in fact he seems to think that their full inclusion will bring untold blessings for the whole world!!
Now...while I see Romans 11 to say that it could happen, and I see the Jews back in their land as a possible confirmation of this....I'm not going to die on a hill protecting this idea! Either way God's will will be done, and it will be glorious, and will bring Him glory and praise. But I confess I find it all very interesting, and will be watching for large numbers of Jews turning to Christ. You have to admit, that would be a wondrous thing. It saddens me that they've missed out on their own messiah...how they waited, and when he came, they couldn't see it.

I would like to see the whole modern nation of Israel come to faith in Christ.

It seems that those sitting in the pews of evangelical church bodies (mine included) seem to imagine that the modern nation of Israel is made up only of religious Jews who believe exactly what we do about the Old Testament and are looking for the Messiah.

If you do a little research on Talmudic Judaism and look at what the Talmud says about Jesus, you may be shocked at what you find there. The Talmud says that Christ was an illegitimate child, and much worse.

The Book of Daniel plainly says that the Messiah would come before the second temple was destroyed.
Jacob Prasch, who is a Jewish Christian, says that modern Jews do not believe the New Testament, because they do not believe the Old Testament.

Tel Aviv is known as one of the Gay capitals of the world.

We find the spiritual state of the city of Jerusalem in the Book of Revelation at about the time of the 7th trumpet below. Does it sound like a city that has gotten right with God?



Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


If we want them to be saved, we need to face reality and make sure they hear the Gospel.

For those older Jews who are dying now, it may be their last chance.
.