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Covenant and New Covenant theology

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Piles of unfaithful disobedient unbelieving racial Israelite corpses reveal God to be a racist?

    How so?
     
  2. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    so are you saying that Israel obeyed God before they received the law?
     
  3. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    because he was dealing with them corporately, as a nation
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If He was dealing with them corporately as a nation, then He would have slain them all.
     
  5. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 15:24 romans 15:8
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Doesn't "dealing with them corporately as a nation" mean that everyone is treated the same?

    So either He would have slain them all.

    Or He would have preserved them all.

    But He did neither.

    He slew thousands, and He preserved thousands.

    How did He decide?

    Wait for it...

    Two genes of spiritual DNA.

    Faith and obedience.

    And nothing else.
     
  7. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    No, that was not what corporately meant. But anyway, let's move on from this point
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As you wish.

    Dictionary definition of "corporate":

    "of or shared by all the members of a group."
     
  9. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    Because that's not true. That's why we reject it.



    Israel, Abraham, and Modern Times
     
  10. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    One example of how - from the very beginning of the Israelite assembly - it was NOT about a fleshly relationship.


     
  11. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    God specially chose the nation Israel because of their Father Abraham, and all of us gentiles were rejected in the OT, as Ephesians 2:11-12 would have stated.

    Deut 7
    6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

    8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

    Exodus 19:5-6
    5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    As I have stated previously, I have no problems with this, because at the same time, God has hid a plan in himself from the foundation of the world, that eventually, gentiles would be freely accepted by him, thru the fall of Israel (Romans 11:11, Ephesians 3:9)
     
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


    .
     
  13. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying we should listen an believe what God had written for our admonition, even if other religious voices are saying something different.

    Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

    5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

    19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

    God most certainly gave Abraham His Laws, Statutes, Commandments and Judgments which Abraham taught to his children as God said.

    So Jacob, like his Grandfather, obeyed God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments, as did Joseph.

    While It is true God did not give "US" His Laws, Commandments and Statutes, in the Holy Scriptures HE had written specifically for our admonition until Exodus. But if one believes the Holy Scriptures, He most certainly gave them to Abraham, and then to Abraham's Children.
     
  14. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    I don't get what you are trying to say. During the time of Exodus 4:22, all of Israel were working as slaves in Egypt.

    Are you saying because all of them kept, as you said "God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments", that was why God declared to Pharaoh that the nation is his son?
     
  15. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they had lost the teaching of Joseph, Jacob, Isaac and Abraham. But there were still children of the Promise "Because Abraham obeyed MY Laws".

    Ex. 2:
    23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

    24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

    25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.


    I'm posting the Word's of God which shows "WHY" God called Israel His son. It was because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws, and "because" of this, God had respect unto their children.

    And according to Paul, these Word's were not written for Pharaoh. They were specifically written for us, where there is no Jew or Gentile. For our examples, and our Admonition.

    The intended Audience of God for these Word's are us.
     
  16. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so if I understand you correctly, its not because they have kept God's laws, but because their ancestors Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did.

    So the point I was making is that God had a covenant with the nation Israel, because, as God himself said in Deut 7,

    6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

    7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

    8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

    You agree with that right?
     
  17. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    Gen. 26:3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

    4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

    5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

    Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

    24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

    25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

    So there it is, His Word's not mine. God respected Israel because of what Abraham did.

    If we can't believe what is written here, the foundation, then how can we understand anything?

    Yes, the reason why God chose to deliver Israel from Egypt, and not the Egyptian Slaves, is because of what Abraham did, not what the Children of Israel did.

    In my understanding this is symbolic of our journey. The Passover Lamb was killed while they were still in Egypt, which is symbolic of the Christ shedding His Blood for us while we were yet in sin. We, and they, who took the Blood of the Lamb and followed HIS instructions regarding it, are shown the path to Salvation, a Path Jesus walked. Passover is the very beginning of our Journey, not the end as "many" who come in Christ's Name imply.
     
  18. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I'm not convinced of that.

    2Peter is written to the same group as 1 Peter. Peter begins his 2nd letter to them in this way:

    2Peter 2:1 ~ Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ
    In fact....the theme of these letters seem to be this, what was written in 2Peter 2:9:

    .....if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment
    This was written in the context of reminding them of the accounts of God rescuing Noah and Lot from destruction and judgment.

     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  19. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I would just fine tune this a bit and say God chose the deliver Israel from Egypt because of His covenant with Abraham (it's what God had done - not so much the focus on what Abraham had done).
     
  20. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    I was really more interested in acknowledging what God said about him. I agree that God gave him the instruction, created him, created the circumstance Abraham was in. But it was Abraham's belief in God shown by his obedience and respect that caused God to call him a friend.

    It seems Jesus was on the same page as well.

    John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

    So it seems that God is telling us about Abraham, and praising him, not because of what God Did, but what Abraham did, as the Scriptures I posted show.
     
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