Covenant and New Covenant theology

[Christian Gedge]

Did the rich young man tell the truth when he said he had always kept the commandments?

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He probably thought that he did. That's the problem when law is codified into written words on tablets of stone. It doesn't capture the heart of the matter. How blessed we are, when the law of Christ is written on our heart and not beaten over our heads with a rock.

That is what I feel is the fault of old reformed C.T as expressed in the Westminster confession. They wanted to keep a little bit of legalism, so they divided Moses' law into compartments, retaining what they called 'the moral law.'

I love N.C.T.

 

[mkgal1]

Did the rich young man tell the truth when he said he had always kept the commandments?

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I don't think that's the point, because (I believe) what Jesus was asking for wasn't adherence to a checklist of rules....I believe Jesus was asking the man (and all humanity) to "follow Him"...."abide in Him" ....and love others as He loves us. It's about allegiance....honor....devotion...not checking boxes. IOW....what God always wanted was our faith (like Abraham)- and He provided the righteousness as only One is righteous).

From the same passage:

Matthew 19:17 ~ Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.

 

[mkgal1]

That is what I feel is the fault of old reformed C.T as expressed in the Westminster confession. They wanted to keep a little bit of legalism, so they divided Moses' law into compartments, retaining what they called 'the moral law.'

Is part of this division, perhaps, because of differences in beliefs of free will? Beginning from those separate points of belief will result in completely different theology.

Reformed Covenant theology is Calvinism....correct? But Traditional Covenant Theology is based on humanity's free will.

From that article I linked earlier, from Regis Flaherty:
Another word for the Ten Commandments is the Decalogue, which means “ten words” (Ex 34:28). These “words” summarize the law given by God to Moses as the blueprint for living a good life free from slavery to sin. We have free will—to a large extent we can do whatever we like. But when our choices violate the commandments, we are acting against our own best interests. In other words, we are choosing misery and slavery to sin rather than virtue and happiness.

These “words” are perennially valid. For that reason Christians must keep the commandments. They express our fundamental duties owed in justice toward God and neighbor. Upon this foundation, the virtues of faith, hope, and especially charity are able to flourish in us.
The Pursuit of Happiness and the Ten Commandments | St. Paul Center

 

[mkgal1]

From Wiki:
Methodist hermeneutics traditionally use a variation of this, known as Wesleyan covenant theology, which is consistent with Arminian soteriology.[2]

There's another version of covenant theology. The Great Schism sure made for a lot of confusion.

 

[Guojing]

You are ignoring what happened on the Day of Pentecost when about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" accepted the New Covenant. The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church until several years later. The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church", as many today attempt to imply.
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The nation Israel did not accept the new covenant, the 3000 Jews who did at Pentecost is only a remnant that did, as Paul explained in Romans 11, which you quoted.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Their leaders killed Stephen, remember? Israel, the nation, is an enemy to God now (Romans 11:28), so that us gentiles can now be reconciled to God.

But we, the Body of Christ, are still not Israel, God still has a plan for Israel.

When Hebrews quoted Jeremiah, the author made it clear what that plan is going to be, in Hebrews 8:8

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

"I will make" implies future tense. There is currently no new covenant between God and the nation of Israel now. It will be made after the Tribulation when the entire nation finally acknowledge Jesus as their promised Son of God.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

I posted this on your (where do you fit?) thread but was told this was a more appropriate place to post it.

I'm not sure where i would fall on the covenant theologies. Maybe you know which one this set of beliefs fits in best:
I believe that the Moral law(Ten commandments) has always existed and was never a part of the Mosaic law(Civil, dietary, ceremonial) written on parchment. I believe outside of the Ten commandments other laws were given progressively as time went on and that the Mosaic Law was given as a set of Laws, and as a covenant that point towards Christ(who is the fulfillment of every promise given to man since the beginning), and was only for the OT Jews but whatever Laws were repeated in the New we must keep and even look to the Mosaic law for further elaboration on what exactly is sinful(such as when sexual immorality is said to be a sin the NT but doesn't detail everything that would qualify as Sexual immorality). Now we have a New law in Christ which consists of everything spoken of in parable by Christ and everything spoken of by the Apostles along with the Moral Law(which of course Includes the Sabbath day). Also all men have only ever been saved by faith towards God but they must justify themselves(show themselves true) by keeping God's law out of Faith.

I Apologize ahead of Time for not knowing which categories these beliefs fall into, I tried reading descriptions of each of the sets of the beliefs you have listed and couldn't figure out which ones mine fit into. If it's to much trouble to try and put these beliefs into any categories then disregard my post.

 

[BABerean2]

The nation Israel did not accept the new covenant, the 3000 Jews who did at Pentecost is only a remnant that did, as Paul explained in Romans 11, which you quoted.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Their leaders killed Stephen, remember? Israel, the nation, is an enemy to God now (Romans 11:28), so that us gentiles can now be reconciled to God.

But we, the Body of Christ, are still not Israel, God still has a plan for Israel.

When Hebrews quoted Jeremiah, the author made it clear what that plan is going to be, in Hebrews 8:8

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

"I will make" implies future tense. There is currently no new covenant between God and the nation of Israel now. It will be made after the Tribulation when the entire nation finally acknowledge Jesus as their promised Son of God.

You have failed to see that the author of the Book of Hebrews was quoting word-for-word the text from Jeremiah 31:31-34. The NKJV shows the OT text in Uppercase letters.

Verse 6 was written in the present tense during the first century.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


You appear to be attempting to make the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology work. It is a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race. The doctrine's chief error is the claim that God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete.
Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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[Guojing]

You have failed to see that the author of the Book of Hebrews was quoting word-for-word the text from Jeremiah 31:31-34. The NKJV shows the OT text in Uppercase letters.

Verse 6 was written in the present tense during the first century.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


You appear to be attempting to make the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology work. It is a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race. The doctrine's chief error is the claim that God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete.
Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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I am just reading Hebrews and interpreting the passage literally. Here are my 2 points, which stand independently.

1. We gentiles who believed are in the Body of Christ. We are neither the house of Israel, nor the house of Judah.
2. The new covenant is made with Israel, the 12 tribes in the 2 houses. It is not in force now. The Hebrews passage literally said that "I will make".

I trust you know what future tense means?

 

[klutedavid]

In Matthew chapter 5 Christ contrasts the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.
He quotes from the Old Covenant and then adds "But I say...".

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I think you misunderstand whom Jesus is addressing here in Matthew chapter 5. Jesus was sent only to the Jews and on occassion even ignored the Gentiles. Jesus is speaking directly to the Jews about their book of the law in chapter 5 of Matthew.

The greatest commandments are in the book of the law.

Matthew 22:36-40
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?

The Apostle Paul contrasts the Old Covenant and the New Covenant below.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Yes, ministers not of the letter (book of the law), ministers of the Spirit. The law of Christ!

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

Your two greatest commandments are the written law, they comprise the minitry of death.

Below we find that the New Covenant has not "abrogated" the Old Covenant, but has instead made it "obsolete".

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Read this again more carefully.

BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

Who did God disregard?

NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS

The book of the law is not included in our faith.

Galatians 3:12
However, the Law is not of faith...

Which includes the entire law and all commandments in that book of the law

A horse can still be used as a mode of transportation.However, it is now considered "obsolete" when compared to a modern automobile.

Not a good analogy.

Nobody I know from the New Covenant perspective believes it is now alright to lie, kill, commit adultery, etc.
We are not without law.

Love is the word, love does not kill, steal, or even covet the neighbor's oxen.

Based on the passages above, nobody alive today has ever broken the 4th commandment.
For those in the New Covenant, Christ is our Sabbath rest every day of the week, as confirmed by Colossians 2:16-17.
There is no "paradox" if we accept the text at face value.

You drop the sabbath and then select another law to follow. Your interpretation is unfounded in the scripture. The book of the law was given only to the Jews and Gentiles cannot even be circumcised. Therefore a Gentile cannot even touch the book of the law, that is prohibited. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[BABerean2]

You drop the sabbath and then select another law to follow. Your interpretation is unfounded in the scripture. The book of the law was given only to the Jews and Gentiles cannot even be circumcised. Therefore a Gentile cannot even touch the book of the law, that is prohibited. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

It is not my interpretation. It is the Apostle Paul's in the passage below.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Pharisees accused Christ of not properly keeping the Sabbath day, and some today are making the same accusations.


We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.


What did Paul say about genealogies in Titus 3:9?
There is now no distinction between Jews, and Gentiles.
Paul had to correct Peter for treating the Jewish believers differently than the Gentile believers. Some of us are making the same mistake today.

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[BABerean2]

I am just reading Hebrews and interpreting the passage literally. Here are my 2 points, which stand independently.

1. We gentiles who believed are in the Body of Christ. We are neither the house of Israel, nor the house of Judah.
2. The new covenant is made with Israel, the 12 tribes in the 2 houses. It is not in force now. The Hebrews passage literally said that "I will make".

I trust you know what future tense means?

I trust you know what it means when a New Testament writer quotes directly from the Old Testament scripture of Jeremiah 31:31-34, and begins the passage with the word "now".

What does the word "now" mean to you, which is found in the verse below?

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


We also have a reference to the New Covenant below, which also has a direct quote from Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Do you notice the word "now", or do you have to ignore it to make your doctrine work?

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

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[Guojing]

I trust you know what it means when a New Testament writer quotes directly from the Old Testament scripture of Jeremiah 31:31-34, and begins the passage with the word "now".

What does the word "now" mean to you, which is found in the verse below?

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


We also have a reference to the New Covenant below, which also has a direct quote from Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Do you notice the word "now", or do you have to ignore it to make your doctrine work?

Heb 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS I WILL WRITE THEM,"
Heb 10:17 then He adds, "THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 10:18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

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Yes, Jesus death on the cross has obtained that more excellent ministry and a better covenant. It is avaliable now. But remember Israel has rejected their Messiah, and hence rejected that covenant when they stoned Stephen.

I have already use Romans 11:28, as well as the entire Romans 11, to show that God is now an enemy with Israel. I noticed you avoid addressing that passage.

But since you prefer to quote Hebrews 10:16, let me use that verse then

I WILL MAKE
I WILL PUT MY LAWS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE

All these are future tenses, you would agree? Nothing in those passages you have used is saying the New covenant has already been made with Israel.

So how can God currently be an enemy with Israel, while the new convenant in Hebrews 10 is already made with them?

 

[James Honigman]

This thread's subject:

I would like for those who subscribe to either or both, explain/comment what those are and the difference between the two - if there is one?

Also why there appears to be such a battle going on between Covenant and New Covenant theology vs dispensationalsim?

Hi Doug. Our Father gives us His covenants in different eras of mankind's sojourn on earth; they relate to what is happening at the time. The covenant He made with Adam was broken by Adam when Eve was "beguiled" by the serpent. The Seed line to Christ remained intact though. Abraham had nothing to do with His covenant as he was asleep when our Father promised him to be the father of many nations. The Seed line to Christ remained intact though as the covenant Seed went through Isaac. The covenant with Moses and the children of Israel was almost immediately broken as they went after golden calves and who knows what else. The Seed line to Christ remained intact though until His birth. Now we are under the covenant of Grace through our Lord Jesus Christ. It is intact today.

 

[mkgal1]

I'm not sure where i would fall on the covenant theologies. Maybe you know which one this set of beliefs fits in best:
I believe that the Moral law(Ten commandments) has always existed and was never a part of the Mosaic law(Civil, dietary, ceremonial) written on parchment. I believe outside of the Ten commandments other laws were given progressively as time went on and that the Mosaic Law was given as a set of Laws, and as a covenant that point towards Christ(who is the fulfillment of every promise given to man since the beginning), and was only for the OT Jews but whatever Laws were repeated in the New we must keep and even look to the Mosaic law for further elaboration on what exactly is sinful(such as when sexual immorality is said to be a sin the NT but doesn't detail everything that would qualify as Sexual immorality). Now we have a New law in Christ which consists of everything spoken of in parable by Christ and everything spoken of by the Apostles along with the Moral Law(which of course Includes the Sabbath day). Also all men have only ever been saved by faith towards God but they must justify themselves(show themselves true) by keeping God's law out of Faith.

Stephen, from what I've recently read - this seems to align with Protestant Covenant theology. New Covenant theologians and advocates don't believe the Ten Commandments always existed - nor do they believe in the separation of the Ten Commandments. Would you agree your beliefs align with Covenant Theology based on this below? We can see a thread of God's grace in His covenant with David (for one example)....and, simultaneously, we can see the consequences of a covenant of works:

From Wiki:
Davidic covenant
The Davidic covenant is found in 2 Samuel 7. The Lord proclaims that he will build a house and lineage for David, establishing his kingdom and throne forever. This covenant is appealed to as God preserves David's descendants despite their wickedness (cf. 1 Kings 11:26–39, 15:1–8; 2 Kings 8:19, 19:32–34), although it did not stop judgment from finally arriving (compare 2 Kings 21:7, 23:26–27; Jeremiah 13:12–14). Among the prophets of the exile, there is hope of restoration under a Davidic king who will bring peace and justice (cf. Book of Ezekiel 37:24–28).
"Covenant theology - Wikipedia" Covenant theology - Wikipedia

 

[claninja]

Paul never divided the Sinai Covenant into "the moral law", and "the ceremonial law."

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

In 2 Corinthians 3:6-10 Paul calls the ten commandments "the ministry of death written on stones", and contrasts them to the New Covenant.

In Hebrews 12:18 we are not come to Mount Sinai, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

The only way to let the New Covenant live is by letting the Old Covenant die.

The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in
Acts 15, and continues to the present day. During most of that time the Judaisers have won the day.


Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

.

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This is where I partly disagree, and why I don't fully agree with the hermeneutic of new covenant theology. I think NCT does a lot of good through making the primary focus Christ, but I think it fails partly in understanding the covenants.

I think there is a distinction made in the NT between ceremonial and moral parts of the law of Moses. Feasts, the Sabbath, animal sacrifices, dietary restrictions, temple worship, cleansings are obviously ceremonial aspects of the Law of Moses, that were simply a shadow pointing to Christ. I would argue the ceremonial aspects showed are inability to come before God due to are sinful nature and ultimately point to the ability to come to God through Christ.

Hebrews 9:8-10 By this arrangement the Holy Spirit was showing that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. It is an illustration for the present time, because the gifts and sacrifices being offered were unable to cleanse the conscience of the worshiper. They consist only in food and drink and special washings—external regulations imposed until the time of reform.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. If it could, would not the offerings have ceased? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt the guilt of their sins

Colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.c

Where as moral aspects of the law are mentioned separately from the ceremonial, as still binding for believers. (not for salvation, but for justifying our faith, just to reiterate). It's important to note the Sabbath is never included with these moral laws, but with the ceremonial. Christians who do not partake in the moral standard of God, do not inherit the kingdom.


Romans 13:8-10 Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love. For he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”a and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”b Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Galatians 5:15 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:13-15 For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

The moral standard of loving God and our neighbor is eternal, as it represents God's moral standard. God's people are required to do these. Never for salvation though. Under the old covenant it was for earthly blessings in the land. Under the new covenant it is because of our freedom.

 

[BABerean2]

I think there is a distinction made in the NT between ceremonial and moral parts of the law of Moses. Feasts, the Sabbath, animal sacrifices, dietary restrictions, temple worship, cleansings are obviously ceremonial aspects of the Law of Moses, that were simply a shadow pointing to Christ.

Can you show us where Paul divided the Old Covenant into "the moral law", and "the ceremonial law"?

What do we find below?

What are the two covenants Paul is speaking about?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


The term "the moral law" is found in the Westminster Confession of Faith, but it is not found in the Bible.

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[mkgal1]

But remember Israel has rejected their Messiah, and hence rejected that covenant when they stoned Stephen

You're placing all of Ancient Israel together (and may be even including a modern geopolitical Israel that aren't even relevant to the context).

Paul helped clarify to us that "not all that are of Israel are Israel "

Romans 9:6 ~ It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
​

We have the advantage of hindsight and can look back on things that were only revealed to the Ancient Israelites through Scripture. Paul is reassigning the label of "Israel" to God's truly faithful people (His remnant of the faithful from the ancient tribes of Israel and His faithful Gentile followers). Their faith is what qualifies them as being a member of the "Israel of God".

Romans 4:13 ~ For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world was not given through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

Ephesians 3:4-6 ~ This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ through the gospel. ​

 

[mkgal1]

Paul never divided the Sinai Covenant into "the moral law", and "the ceremonial law."

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

In 2 Corinthians 3:6-10 Paul calls the ten commandments "the ministry of death written on stones", and contrasts them to the New Covenant.

In Hebrews 12:18 we are not come to Mount Sinai, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

The only way to let the New Covenant live is by letting the Old Covenant die.

Deuteronomy 6:5 ~ And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Leviticus 19:18 ~ Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.​

This is at the heart of both covenants - it cannot "die" and have the New Covenant still "live". Paul never taught anything in contradiction to this - in fact - Paul (and Jesus) encourages us to follow these instructions as our foundation of our faith.

 

[Christian Gedge]

I think there is a distinction made in the NT between ceremonial and moral parts of the law of Moses. Feasts, the Sabbath, animal sacrifices, dietary restrictions, temple worship, cleansings are obviously ceremonial aspects of the Law of Moses, that were simply a shadow pointing to Christ. I would argue the ceremonial aspects showed are inability to come before God due to are sinful nature and ultimately point to the ability to come to God through Christ.

When we look inside the Ark of the Covenant, we find Aaron’s rod that budded as well as the tablets of stone. Aaron’s rod accords with the priesthood of the old system and the tablets with its law. They are in the same box - inseparable. We should not, therefore, take one element out of the ark of the old covenant and place it in with the new.

Nor should we say that the old ceremonial aspects were inferior, but the 10 commandments were not improved upon. NCT says that we are now under the ‘Law of Christ’, a vastly improved law to the ‘ten.’ When you think about it, the decalogue was an abbreviated version of what was to come. That’s how I see it anyway.

 

[BABerean2]

Deuteronomy 6:5 ~ And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

Leviticus 19:18 ~ Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.​

This is at the heart of both covenants - it cannot "die" and have the New Covenant still "live". Paul never taught anything in contradiction to this - in fact - Paul (and Jesus) encourages us to follow these instructions as our foundation of our faith.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

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