Court rules atheism a religion.

[trunks2k]

Wrong.

Agnosticism: The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

Agnosticism qualifies more of a non-religion compares to athesism. Athesism do have a belief... but a belief that there is no God. However, agosticism doesn't have any belief. Therefore, athesism IS a religion.

Close. Agnosticism deals with knowledge. theism deals with belief. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. You can be a theist, but feel that you can never know that god exists. You can, by definition the definition you have given, be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist (not believing in a god, but do not think it is possible to know that a god does not exist).

 

[TeddyKGB]

From a legal point of view, atheism is a religion. Treating it as a religion allows consistent rulings such as this one.

This is indeed the way we should be looking at the ruling. The court has made no statements bearing on philosophy or pure semantics.

 

[Moros]

Belief in disbelief is still belief. Athiesm is all three a philosophy, a way of life, and an article of faith.

 

[Norseman]

lol - I'm not sure what you would be practicing

"I won't believe in god(s), I won't believe in god(s), I won't, I won't, I won't, I WON'T!"

 

[TeddyKGB]

Belief in disbelief is still belief. Athiesm is all three a philosophy, a way of life, and an article of faith.

You are entitled to your opinion, however misguided. But please note that the court ruling has absolutely nothing to do with the philosophical content of the term.

 

[sidiousmax225]

Belief in disbelief is still belief. Athiesm is all three a philosophy, a way of life, and an article of faith.

A way of life? There isn't a set doctrine on how atheists should live their lives.

 

[JPPT1974]

"I won't believe in god(s), I won't believe in god(s), I won't, I won't, I won't, I WON'T!"

Well, you can either be for or against God. That is up to you. But as for me, I am for Him regardless!

 

[Norseman]

Well, you can either be for or against God. That is up to you. But as for me, I am for Him regardless!

That was a joke BTW. But, erm, allow me to show you what that's like saying to me:

"Well, you can either be for or against leprechauns. That is up to you. But as for me, I am for leprechauns regardless!"

I don't even believe in leprechauns, how could I possibly be for or against them? Same goes for god(s). When in doubt, think of the leprechauns.

 

[Grizzly]

Wrong.

Agnosticism: The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.

I believe that is what I said. There can be no proof is the same thing as saying that the existance of God is ultimately unknowable.

Agnosticism qualifies more of a non-religion compares to athesism. Athesism do have a belief... but a belief that there is no God. However, agosticism doesn't have any belief. Therefore, athesism IS a religion.

Some will make the distinction between strong atheists and weak atheists, where the weak atheists simply lack a belief in God, and the strong atheists KNOW there is no god. But I've never met a strong atheist. I think strong atheists are strawman built by believers to knock down....

 

[SuzQ]

I just don't see how athiesm can be defined as a "religion". It never used to be? The only thing that athiests agree on is that there's no god, period. Athiesm has always been one of the "Big Five" (Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, Jew), as far as world "beliefs", but never considered a religious sect.

They don't have any organized "observances" on calenders, "religious practices", "writings/scriptures", or even institutions that teach their belief to others. (Philosophy doesn't count).

The absence of a belief now suddenly makes a "religion"? What makes me a Christian? The fact that I reject athiesm, or don't believe in "Allah" or "Vishnu"? Nope, hardly - especially since neither are mentioned in scripture. I'm a Christian - the largest religious sect in the world - not for rejecting other beliefs, but for believing that I'm a sinner & believing Christ died to "cleanse" me of my sins, period.

One would think that by declaring athiesm a "religion" is insulting to athiests who reject religious practices in the first place. Kind of ironic.

 

[Norseman]

Pretty much, yeah. Legally, atheism is afforded the same protections and rights as any religion, so legally it is a religion. But by definition, you're correct, it's most definitely not a religion any more than non-belief in leprechauns is.

 

[ClaireZ]

Good! Now maybe some atheist groups can qualify for some of that faith-based initiative money.


Seriously though, the ruling seems stupid to me. How can not having faith in something equate to having faith?

On a practical level in this particular case, it works out well for our irreligious friends, but in the long run I can see this ruling causing alot of complications.

 

[Rochir]

No Rochir. Atheism, in it's most basic state is a lack of belief in god. Most atheists define themselves as such.

That's what I said! And as such, it is a believe in and of itself - namely, that there is/are no God(s) or supernatural beings guiding one's life and theworld's purpose!

 

[Rochir]

atheism: 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.

disbelief: 1. doubt about the truth of something 2: a rejection of belief

I can reject a belief in god, but that does not mean I think no god exists.

Disbelief = belief! If you disbelief in something, that is your belief! Because you profess to either disbelieve (atheist) or to not know (Agnostic)!

 

[Norseman]

Seriously though, the ruling seems stupid to me. How can not having faith in something equate to having faith?

Rochir seems to have cleared that up, not that I agree with him. Having faith should not be a prerequisite to having rights. Your beliefs should hold no bearing on the rights, freedoms, or priveledges afforded to you, if everyone is to be considered equal in the eyes of the state.

 

[ClaireZ]

That's what I said! And as such, it is a believe in and of itself - namely, that there is/are no God(s) or supernatural beings guiding one's life and theworld's purpose!

Actually Atheism has a wide range of belief or lack of belief. Most atheists I have spoken to or whose books I have read see no clear evidence of a God or gods. Only what are termed strong atheists reject any possibility of the exsistance of God. Most feel that God as so far encountered or described by humans does not exist, but leave open the possibilty of some unknown or unknowable God/gods existing.

So only those who are most dogmatic would qualify as having any belief at all.

 

[Norseman]

Disbelief = belief! If you disbelief in something, that is your belief! Because you profess to either disbelieve (atheist) or to not know (Agnostic)!

Ok. You've defined belief sufficiently to include everything. You've simultaneously made belief irrelevant because it includes everything. So why should I care?

 

[Norseman]

Actually Atheism has a wide range of belief or lack of belief. Most atheists I have spoken to or whose books I have read see no clear evidence of a God or gods. Only what are termed strong atheists reject any possibility of the exsistance of God. Most feel that God as so far encountered or described by humans does not exist, but leave open the possibilty of some unknown or unknowable God/gods existing.

So only those who are most dogmatic would qualify as having any belief at all.

No no, Rochir is quite correct. According to his definition, even not knowing whether or not God(s) exists would mean that you believe that you do not know whether or not God(s) exist. Belief is practically meaningless under that definition, but hey, it's his definition.

 

[ClaireZ]

Well in that case, then I prepose that all atheist organizations, no longer be subject to taxes.

Also any atheist that can set up a group discussion meeting weekly in thier home, should be able to avoid property taxes on his "church".

Sounds fair to me!

 

[Arnold_Philips]

The guy's going to have a hard time with his class. Atheists and the non-religious are underrepresented in prisons, making up a very miniscule percent.