First of all the first thing we do is look at someone religious icon and then we look at anything in their post that we assume the group represented by that religious icon is preaching and we go into attack not really reading not caring what the person said.
Same here, because I have Orthodox Icon next to my nick name (which actually says Christ is risen, btw.) some of you (most of you) will say what does this Roman Catholic without the Pope want and you will not read anything but copy parts of my post (words I have to mention) and attack.
I hope this will not happen, but I think it will.
Lets try something new let us actually read what others say and not oppose them for the sake of opposing and we will see that we actually see more eye to eye than we are willing to admit.
Can we agree on couple of points?
Here they are:
Tradition and/or Bible Only
No one ever said that the Bible is not more important that Tradition. Let me say that again, no one ever said that the Bible is not more important than Tradition. Bible is more important than Tradition Bible is where all Tradition starts and finishes. All Tradition is about what the Bible speaks of and if something contradicts the Bible then truly it is not Tradition but tradition something spurious.
Now, what we think the Bible says is a different thing therefore, we might think that Tradition is just tradition because we do not think that Bible says something that someone else thinks the Bible is saying. This is where the difference starts.
But, no one says that the Bible is less important than Tradition.
We can and we will argue about what the Bible says until Kingdom comes, but can we all not assume that because I am an Orthodox when I argue with someone I am arguing because I think that Bible is less important than Tradition. No. Can you instead assume that I argue because I disagree with that person about actual interpretation of the Bible?
Also, we should agree that we all of us - have some sort of Tradition whether it is someone Bible Commentary, a book, a set of CDs with our favorite preacher or whatever, but we all have some sort of Tradition even these forums are some sort of Tradition for we all ask the questions about our faith and we get answers now, just because I ask St. John Chrysostom and you ask John from Kansas who is un-churched like you does not mean that I am devil because you and you John agree and me and my John agree and we (2x2 of us) disagree.
Faith and works
I am an Orthodox to me (really) this argument about faith and works sounds impossible. Please try to understand we did not have anything like a Reformation in the East, thus we do not have any consequences of Reformation as seen in the West.
We were to busy trying to survive Arabs, Turks and Communist killers to really pay much attention about what you guys have been fighting over but now, thank God we are little free and here we are in the pit with you a little bit confused.
Anyway,
Because we all like to defend what we stand for we actually exaggerate about what we believe in order to contradict those others.
Maybe during the long history of the Roman Church someone did say that in order to attain salvation one must do works and that is it.
But I have not seen anyone on these forums, nor actually met a Roman Catholic yet who actually said this. We are not saved by works. We are saved by the grace of God in the first instance and then through our faith and what she entails.
Works are the sign of our faith it is what a Christian (a person who has Christian faith) does. We are not saved because we have those works it is what we do because we are Christians works is what a person does when he/she has faith works are not what person does to get saved we can not earn salvation works are done because we have faith.
Now this is where the point comes where I will disagree with most of Protestants but for the point of this post I am not going there.
The point of this part is:
Can we please not assume that if a Roman Catholic or Orthodox talks about works we are not, and I will say that again we are not saying that we are saved by works only, nor are we saying that works are all and be all of Christian salvation.
So, do not accuse us of doing so.
Idolatry
Many will say that we Orthodox worship Icons and other things, same about Roman Catholics
Can we once and for all agree that we know what we worship and it is nothing but God.
Seriously you Protestants on these forums know enough about us you know that we do stand for what we believe just as you do. You also know that we are not afraid to defend all our whacky ideas.
If we worshiped icons, saints etc we would tell you - we are not.
Can we please refrain from these kind of attacks I know what I worship and that is only God.
Everything else, lets argue.
Same here, because I have Orthodox Icon next to my nick name (which actually says Christ is risen, btw.) some of you (most of you) will say what does this Roman Catholic without the Pope want and you will not read anything but copy parts of my post (words I have to mention) and attack.
I hope this will not happen, but I think it will.
Lets try something new let us actually read what others say and not oppose them for the sake of opposing and we will see that we actually see more eye to eye than we are willing to admit.
Can we agree on couple of points?
Here they are:
Tradition and/or Bible Only
No one ever said that the Bible is not more important that Tradition. Let me say that again, no one ever said that the Bible is not more important than Tradition. Bible is more important than Tradition Bible is where all Tradition starts and finishes. All Tradition is about what the Bible speaks of and if something contradicts the Bible then truly it is not Tradition but tradition something spurious.
Now, what we think the Bible says is a different thing therefore, we might think that Tradition is just tradition because we do not think that Bible says something that someone else thinks the Bible is saying. This is where the difference starts.
But, no one says that the Bible is less important than Tradition.
We can and we will argue about what the Bible says until Kingdom comes, but can we all not assume that because I am an Orthodox when I argue with someone I am arguing because I think that Bible is less important than Tradition. No. Can you instead assume that I argue because I disagree with that person about actual interpretation of the Bible?
Also, we should agree that we all of us - have some sort of Tradition whether it is someone Bible Commentary, a book, a set of CDs with our favorite preacher or whatever, but we all have some sort of Tradition even these forums are some sort of Tradition for we all ask the questions about our faith and we get answers now, just because I ask St. John Chrysostom and you ask John from Kansas who is un-churched like you does not mean that I am devil because you and you John agree and me and my John agree and we (2x2 of us) disagree.
Faith and works
I am an Orthodox to me (really) this argument about faith and works sounds impossible. Please try to understand we did not have anything like a Reformation in the East, thus we do not have any consequences of Reformation as seen in the West.
We were to busy trying to survive Arabs, Turks and Communist killers to really pay much attention about what you guys have been fighting over but now, thank God we are little free and here we are in the pit with you a little bit confused.
Anyway,
Because we all like to defend what we stand for we actually exaggerate about what we believe in order to contradict those others.
Maybe during the long history of the Roman Church someone did say that in order to attain salvation one must do works and that is it.
But I have not seen anyone on these forums, nor actually met a Roman Catholic yet who actually said this. We are not saved by works. We are saved by the grace of God in the first instance and then through our faith and what she entails.
Works are the sign of our faith it is what a Christian (a person who has Christian faith) does. We are not saved because we have those works it is what we do because we are Christians works is what a person does when he/she has faith works are not what person does to get saved we can not earn salvation works are done because we have faith.
Now this is where the point comes where I will disagree with most of Protestants but for the point of this post I am not going there.
The point of this part is:
Can we please not assume that if a Roman Catholic or Orthodox talks about works we are not, and I will say that again we are not saying that we are saved by works only, nor are we saying that works are all and be all of Christian salvation.
So, do not accuse us of doing so.
Idolatry
Many will say that we Orthodox worship Icons and other things, same about Roman Catholics
Can we once and for all agree that we know what we worship and it is nothing but God.
Seriously you Protestants on these forums know enough about us you know that we do stand for what we believe just as you do. You also know that we are not afraid to defend all our whacky ideas.
If we worshiped icons, saints etc we would tell you - we are not.
Can we please refrain from these kind of attacks I know what I worship and that is only God.
Everything else, lets argue.