PureWolf

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I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.
 

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I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.

I'll probably answer these questions in no particular order, and to not give you just a giant wall of text I'll split my answers into different posts, hopefully that will make it easier on you.

So, on Jesus' name:

Jesus of Nazareth, who believe to be the Messiah or Christ (the word "messiah" comes from the Hebrew word meshiach, the word "christ" comes from the Greek word christos, a translation of the Hebrew word meshiach into Greek, both mean "anointed"). The name "Jesus" has some history behind it:

There are two related Hebrew names: Yehoshua and Yeshua, in Hebrew they are a difference of a single letter, think of it like in English we have Jon and John. The first form Yehoshua can be found in the Old Testament, rendered in English as Joshua, while Yeshua becomes Jeshua in English. So one might think that Jesus' original name was Yehoshua or Yeshua, but it wasn't, not really. You see several hundred years before Jesus the Jewish people had been taken captive into the Babylonian Empire where the common language--the lingua franca as it is known--was Aramaic, a language related to Hebrew (the language of Israel) in the same way that French is related to Spanish. During this period of exile and captivity a coalition between the Medes and the Persians overthrew the Babylonians and established the Medo-Persian (or just Persian) Empire, their king, Cyrus, passed an edict which allowed the Jews to return to their homeland, rebuild their capital city of Jerusalem, and their Temple, it established the territory as Judea, a province of the Persian Empire. Aramaic continued to be common language spoken by ordinary Jews for hundreds of years afterward, and this was the case in Jesus' time. Jesus, and His family, would have spoken Aramaic in their family home in Nazareth. As such the Aramaic form of Jesus' name is what His mother would have called Him; this is similar to the difference between an English person named John and a Spanish person named Juan. Likewise the Lord's name wasn't Yeshua (Hebrew) but something closer to the Aramaic Isho or Yesho(a).

The early Christians spoke Greek, that was the common language or lingua franca of the Roman Empire. In order to take Jesus' name and write it in the Greek alphabet and to make it sound right in the Greek language it requires some slight pronunciation changes, for example the "sh" sound doesn't exist in Greek, and so becomes "s", and masculine names in Greek frequently end in a "s" sound, so a name like Yesho(a) would be written in Greek letters as Ἰησοῦς (Iesous, pronounced similar to "yay-soos").

As the centuries went on, in the Western part of the Roman Empire Latin, which had always been used by the Romans for official legal documents and the native language of Rome itself began to replace Greek in the West as the day-to-day language. In the same way that we saw the name rendered in Greek, the name was then rendered in Latin as Iesus. In the late middle ages a new letter was added to the Latin alphabet, an 'I' with a hook, 'J', and as such Iesus started being written as Jesus. In English the 'J' became a hard sound, like 'J' in jelly or jam, rather than "soft" like in German or Spanish. Also, the first 'S' in Jesus in many dialects of English took on a 'Z' sound. All of this gives us the modern spelling of "Jesus" and a pronunciation like "jee-zuss".

Don't worry, "Jesus" is perfectly fine. And you can be confident that no, His name wasn't "Jeshua" or even "Yeshua"; we can't be entirely certain how His name was pronounced, "Isho" and "Yesho(a)" are the best approximate guesses we have, as far as I've been able to tell from my study. But it really isn't that important, at least in terms of our faith in the Lord is concerned. Whether you are calling Him "Jesus" in English, or "Eshoa" in Syriac, or "uJesu" in Swahili, it is the same.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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~Anastasia~

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Nicea ... I get it now. :) There was more than one council there.

They did set down teachings about Jesus that explained the truth, as opposed to many heresies that were and had been going on for some time. People who believed things like Jesus only appeared to have a body, or that He was adopted and later abandoned by God, and all sorts of things. The Creed that came out of Nicea-Constantinople basically defined Christianity (and at the same time they set forth the general list of what would become recognized as our New Testament Scriptures).

Jesus' name was Yeshua in his language, Iesus in Greek, Jesus in English, and so on. Don't get too hung up on names.

The relevant part of the Creed says this -

I believe ...
In one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages, light of light, true God of true God, of one Essence with the Father, through whom all things were made.
Who for us men and for our salvation, came down from Heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, and was buried, and He rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom shall have no end.


The are the things set forth about Jesus in that council. (It is not the entire Creed, it also mentions God the Father, the Holy Spirit, the Church, baptism, and the resurrection and eternal life.)

You won't be able to send PM's until you have at least 20 or 25 posts, is why you can't see a button yet. You can ask here. Of course, anyone can answer, but I am Eastern Orthodox as well, and that Creed is the basis of our Church ... we are still the same Church and recite it every service (in the original Greek in our church, since my own is Greek), and I'll be happy to help in any way I can as well.
 
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Tigger45

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Ok...uh...I can't figure out how to send you a message.
You'll need 20 posts and 5 likes to have your account authorized to pm other members.
 
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frienden thalord

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I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.
That is one good thing the Vatican did. them fourteen books have no place in it.
IF you want to KNOW you serve GOD.
From the heart do you earnestly desire to be made wise unto salvation?
IT seems like you do.
pick up a king james bible and read it, and keep reading.
for the HOLY SCRIPS will make you wise unto salvation through faith in Christ .
way too many different JESUS s getting preached today.
IF you want to KNOW you serve the ONE TRUE CHRIST. man its easy.
read them holy scrips, just read , feed and feed and read .
them words are the most beautiful filling honey tasting words I have ever eaten.
Be blessed and praise the Lord.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.

The council you are thinking of is the Council of Nicea.

Here's some important history:

So in the beginning of the Church the apostles were out spreading the Gospel and establishing churches across the known world across the Mediterranean. Those apostles appointed bishops and presbyters--pastors--to shepherd and care for those communities so that all those early Christian communities would still have someone looking out for them, and preaching to them even after the apostles had gone. As the years passed and the apostles died, either from persecution, natural causes, or old age the churches continued to hold to the teachings of the apostles. We refer to the period after the apostles as the "sub-apostolic age", and this is the period of some the earliest leaders of the Church after the apostles, we call those early leaders the "church fathers" because of their importance in protecting and keeping the Church safe. For example Clement was the bishop of the Church in Rome around the end of the 1st century who had been appointed by Peter, in the beginning of the 2nd century we have Ignatius of Antioch who we are told had learned by hearing the apostles speak personally. And many others, such as Justin Martyr, Polycarp of Smyrna, Irenaeus of Lyons, and so on and so forth.

But this period after the apostles was also a period fraught with some theological controversy. There were some important questions, specifically: Is Jesus divine? And if Jesus is divine, what does that mean exactly?

By the end of the 2nd century and throughout the 3rd there were some who taught that God was kind of like a stage actor in a Greek play, putting on different masks to play different roles. Jesus was one of those roles God played, so Jesus was just God the Father wearing a human suit. This doctrine is known chiefly by two different names, Sabellianism named after one of its biggest supporters, Sabellius; and Modalism because it said that God manifested Himself in various modes, or faces, or masks. This view was harshly condemned by many in the Church because it essentially made a mockery of the relationship between Jesus and His Father--basically when Jesus prays to the Father Jesus is just talking to Himself.

In the 4th century a Christian presbyter from Alexandria in Egypt named Arius took issue with his bishop, Alexander of Alexandria (a coincidence of a name), as Alexander was teaching that Jesus had the same nature as God the Father. Arius didn't like this, because Arius thought it sounded like Sabellianism. Arius, in disobedience to his bishop, preached his doctrine that Jesus was an entirely different God than God the Father. A local meeting of church leaders from Egypt came and met, and they agreed that Arius was teaching heresy and Arius was condemned. Arius, insistent that he was right, left Egypt and began traveling throughout the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire preaching his doctrine, and he soon began to gather a following. Arius' teaching became so popular that it began to cause a great amount of fighting and arguing within the Church--one contemporary historian says that one could hardly go to the market to buy bread without getting into a theological argument about the nature of Christ.

All this arguing caught the attention of the Roman Emperor, Constantine. Constantine, not long before, had just finished unifying the Western and Eastern halves of the Roman Empire by fighting a war against Licinius, the former ruler of the Roman East (Constantine had become ruler in the West about a decade earlier). Now Constantine became interested in this theological debate because Constantine had basically made Christianity the favored religion in the empire; he attributed his victories to the Christian God and so seemed to believe that the Christian religion was the way to help bring unity to the Roman Empire (historians still debate whether or not Constantine's conversion to Christianity was sincere or politically motivated; but what is clear is that Constantine was responsible for ending state persecution against Christians by passing into law the Edict of Toleration which made it legal for Christians to practice their religion). So here's Constantine trying to get Rome put back together and now the Christians are having a massive debate. Constantine decides to invite all the bishops to come and meet at one location and settle the matter once and for all, the place he decides to have this meeting is the city of Nicea.

So in June of the year 325 about 318 bishops gather together at Nicea to debate the subject. And here was the debate:

The Arians were arguing that Jesus the Son was "heteroousios" with the Father, that translates to "of another being" or "of another substance"; that Jesus was a secondary God created by God the Father.

The other side, championed by Athanasius (the student of Alexander mentioned earlier), argued that Jesus the Son was "homoousios" with the Father, that translates to "of the same being" or "of the same substance": that Jesus as the Son wasn't a different or separate God than the Father, but was God even as the Father was God. The Father and Son were distinct, but not separate.

After much debate all but three of the bishops agreed to confession of faith, a creed, known as the Nicene Creed which rejects the Arian view and agrees with the view that Jesus is of the same substance as the Father--truly, and actually God.

That didn't settle the debate quite like Constantine had hoped, debates still continued in spite of the council. Also, some of Constantine's closest spiritual advisers were themselves Arians, and ultimately Constantine took the Arian side, as did his son who was a very devout Arian. Ultimately, the debate continued for decades after Constantine's death. Another council was held in 381 at Constantinople (the Council of Constantinople) which re-affirmed Nicea, and agreed with its creed adding further a statement about the Holy Spirit.

The following is the Nicene Creed agreed and put forward at the Council of Constantinople in 381:

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
"

*The term "catholic" means "according to the whole", and had been in use since at least 100 AD to refer to the entire, or whole Christian Church. Thus its meaning, "We believe in one holy entire and apostolic Church" meaning the entire Christian Church founded upon the teaching and confession of the apostles from the beginning.

The purpose of the Council wasn't to introduce anything new, but to defend the teaching of the Church concerning Christ's deity. Jesus wasn't another God, as Arius taught, but was Himself truly God. And not a "face" God wore temporarily, Jesus is the Son (and the Son is eternal) distinct from the Father. It is this basic confession: there is only one God, and three Persons (the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit), that is the backbone of the doctrine of the Trinity as we know it and have continued to confess as Christians down through the centuries.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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frienden thalord

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The council you are thinking of is the Council of Nicea.

Here's some important history:

So in the beginning of the Church the apostles were out spreading the Gospel and establishing churches across the known world across the Mediterranean. Those apostles appointed bishops and presbyters--pastors--to shepherd and care for those communities so that all those early Christian communities would still have someone looking out for them, and preaching to them even after the apostles had gone. As the years passed and the apostles died, either from persecution, natural causes, or old age the churches continued to hold to the teachings of the apostles. We refer to the period after the apostles as the "sub-apostolic age", and this is the period of some the earliest leaders of the Church after the apostles, we call those early leaders the "church fathers" because of their importance in protecting and keeping the Church safe. For example Clement was the bishop of the Church in Rome around the end of the 1st century who had been appointed by Peter, in the beginning of the 2nd century we have Ignatius of Antioch who we are told had learned by hearing the apostles speak personally. And many others, such as Justin Martyr, Polycarp of Smyrna, Irenaeus of Lyons, and so on and so forth.

But this period after the apostles was also a period fraught with some theological controversy. There were some important questions, specifically: Is Jesus divine? And if Jesus is divine, what does that mean exactly?

By the end of the 2nd century and throughout the 3rd there were some who taught that God was kind of like a stage actor in a Greek play, putting on different masks to play different roles. Jesus was one of those roles God played, so Jesus was just God the Father wearing a human suit. This doctrine is known chiefly by two different names, Sabellianism named after one of its biggest supporters, Sabellius; and Modalism because it said that God manifested Himself in various modes, or faces, or masks. This view was harshly condemned by many in the Church because it essentially made a mockery of the relationship between Jesus and His Father--basically when Jesus prays to the Father Jesus is just talking to Himself.

In the 4th century a Christian presbyter from Alexandria in Egypt named Arius took issue with his bishop, Alexander of Alexandria (a coincidence of a name), as Alexander was teaching that Jesus had the same nature as God the Father. Arius didn't like this, because Arius thought it sounded like Sabellianism. Arius, in disobedience to his bishop, preached his doctrine that Jesus was an entirely different God than God the Father. A local meeting of church leaders from Egypt came and met, and they agreed that Arius was teaching heresy and Arius was condemned. Arius, insistent that he was right, left Egypt and began traveling throughout the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire preaching his doctrine, and he soon began to gather a following. Arius' teaching became so popular that it began to cause a great amount of fighting and arguing within the Church--one contemporary historian says that one could hardly go to the market to buy bread without getting into a theological argument about the nature of Christ.

All this arguing caught the attention of the Roman Emperor, Constantine. Constantine, not long before, had just finished unifying the Western and Eastern halves of the Roman Empire by fighting a war against Licinius, the former ruler of the Roman East (Constantine had become ruler in the West about a decade earlier). Now Constantine became interested in this theological debate because Constantine had basically made Christianity the favored religion in the empire; he attributed his victories to the Christian God and so seemed to believe that the Christian religion was the way to help bring unity to the Roman Empire (historians still debate whether or not Constantine's conversion to Christianity was sincere or politically motivated; but what is clear is that Constantine was responsible for ending state persecution against Christians by passing into law the Edict of Toleration which made it legal for Christians to practice their religion). So here's Constantine trying to get Rome put back together and now the Christians are having a massive debate. Constantine decides to invite all the bishops to come and meet at one location and settle the matter once and for all, the place he decides to have this meeting is the city of Nicea.

So in June of the year 325 about 318 bishops gather together at Nicea to debate the subject. And here was the debate:

The Arians were arguing that Jesus the Son was "heteroousios" with the Father, that translates to "of another being" or "of another substance"; that Jesus was a secondary God created by God the Father.

The other side, championed by Athanasius (the student of Alexander mentioned earlier), argued that Jesus the Son was "homoousios" with the Father, that translates to "of the same being" or "of the same substance": that Jesus as the Son wasn't a different or separate God than the Father, but was God even as the Father was God. The Father and Son were distinct, but not separate.

After much debate all but three of the bishops agreed to confession of faith, a creed, known as the Nicene Creed which rejects the Arian view and agrees with the view that Jesus is of the same substance as the Father--truly, and actually God.

That didn't settle the debate quite like Constantine had hoped, debates still continued in spite of the council. Also, some of Constantine's closest spiritual advisers were themselves Arians, and ultimately Constantine took the Arian side, as did his son who was a very devout Arian. Ultimately, the debate continued for decades after Constantine's death. Another council was held in 381 at Constantinople (the Council of Constantinople) which re-affirmed Nicea, and agreed with its creed adding further a statement about the Holy Spirit.

The following is the Nicene Creed agreed and put forward at the Council of Constantinople in 381:

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
"

*The term "catholic" means "according to the whole", and had been in use since at least 100 AD to refer to the entire, or whole Christian Church. Thus its meaning, "We believe in one holy entire and apostolic Church" meaning the entire Christian Church founded upon the teaching and confession of the apostles from the beginning.

The purpose of the Council wasn't to introduce anything new, but to defend the teaching of the Church concerning Christ's deity. Jesus wasn't another God, as Arius taught, but was Himself truly God. And not a "face" God wore temporarily, Jesus is the Son (and the Son is eternal) distinct from the Father. It is this basic confession: there is only one God, and three Persons (the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit), that is the backbone of the doctrine of the Trinity as we know it and have continued to confess as Christians down through the centuries.

-CryptoLutheran
By all my studies and revelations from the Spirit.
the arians were dead wrong on that one.
a different substance. as though God created himself. God just speaks and Christ is the word.
one essence same being.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.

Finally concerning the "14 books out of the Bible". I'm going to avoid talking about the New Testament since 1) All Christian churches agree today on the 27 books of the New Testament and 2) it's not relevant to this question.

There are discrepancies between different churches on how many books are recognized as accepted Scripture, that is, which make up the Bible. The reason for this is, as you might guess based on my last two posts, about some complicated history:

So the earliest Christians didn't quite have a Bible to speak of. There were books recognized as Scripture, but in Judaism there was not in the time of Jesus or of the earliest Christians a definitive set of books accepted by all Jews. The Jews, in effect, recognized three levels of Scripture:

Torah (the five books of the Law or Pentateuch) was accepted universally and without question by all Jews, and it was the most important.

The Prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the 12 Minor Prophets) were accepted by the Pharisees but not by the Sadducees.

The Writings (the Psalms, Song of Songs, Proverbs, etc) these were the debated books among Jewish scholars, some were accepted pretty well and easily such as the Psalms, but others weren't accepted so easily such as the Song of Songs and the book of Daniel.

But it gets more complicated than that, because a couple hundred years before Jesus a group of Jewish scribes in Alexandria in Egypt had made a translation of Jewish holy books into the Greek language; this translation became known as the Septuagint (Greek meaning "Seventy" because legend has it that seventy scribes worked independently of each other and had the exact same translation) or LXX (Roman numerals for the number 70). The Septuagint was pretty convenient for early Christians who themselves mostly spoke Greek, and were preaching their message to a Greek speaking populace; in fact every quote from the Old Testament in the New Testament is often quoted verbatim from the Septuagint.

In Judaism, with the destruction of the Temple the Sadducees basically died off because they depended on the Temple, which by and large left the Pharisees. And there was also an emphasis among the Pharisees to distance themselves from Greek works and so only Hebrew and Aramaic works were ultimately taken seriously as the Jewish Bible took on its final form in the centuries after Jesus; but this happened independently of the formation of the Christian Bible.

For Christians the Septuagint was often used as-is, and that meant Christians often used books which Jews increasingly did not use, such as Sirach, Wisdom, Judith, Baruch, etc. But those questions did exist in the early Church, and so there were different opinions about some of these books found in the Septuagint, but not used by the Jews; these books are known as the Deuterocanonical Books.

The discrepancy I mentioned in the beginning is something that happens because of events which unfoled in the 1500's, only 500 years ago. As I mentioned there were discussions and debates on some of these books of the Old Testament, but nothing was ever cemented once and for all. Then in the 1500's Martin Luther, the father of the Protestant Reformation, called into question the authority of the Deuterocanonicals. In spite of what some say, Luther didn't despise these books, and didn't have the same opinion about all of them (he liked some more than others); but ultimately he made a decision to place the Deuterocanonical Books in a separate appendix between the Old and New Testaments in his German translation of the Bible, he named that appendix "The Apocrypha". Protestant Bible translators continued this tradition began by Luther, and so English Protestant Bibles (most famously the King James Version) included these books in their own appendix until very recently; it was only around 1875-1880 that English Bible publishing companies began to not publish Bibles with the Deuterocanonicals.

Getting back to the 1500's, when the Roman Catholic Church convened for the Council of Trent, in part to address the Protestant issue, they settled the Biblical Canon for themselves once and for all. Not all the Deuterocanonicals remained in the Catholic Bible, but most did. And this is the chief difference today between Catholic and Protestant Bibles.

The Orthodox Churches in the East continue to have all the Deuterocanonical Books.

So, in reality, there was no removing of books or adding of books, per se. Or at least it's more complex than that. One could argue that Protestants did remove books from the Bible, but that's not really true either it would be more accurate to say that Protestants shuffled some books around--though it was Protestant Bible publishers in the late 19th century that did remove them, which is why you won't find them in your KJV or NIV today (well, you can still find a KJV with them, but you have to go out of your way to find one). Ultimately it's about a small selection of books--the Deuterocanonicals--which had been debated and disputed and discussed on and off throughout Christian history, and it ultimately became part of a larger dispute in Western Europe between Catholics and Protestants.

(Bonus fact: While most Protestants agree with Luther that the Deuterocanonicals aren't Scripture the same way as the other books are Scripture, the Lutheran churches have never had an official opinion one way or the other, which is somewhat ironic given we're named for Luther).

And if your friend was talking about something else entirely than the Deuterocanonicals, then well that would be straight up wrong. There is another discussion to be had about the New Testament, but without getting into that history it suffices to say that no books were removed from the New Testament either.

Long story short: There are no "missing books" of the Bible.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mcarmichael

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I think there is a lot of misinformation about Constantine and the church councils, and it pays to get it right. Like I've heard people say that Constantine decided the outcome, and that isn't true.
The Orthodox say the first church council was the council of Jerusalem, when there was a controversy whether new Christians ought to be circumcised, and the Apostles all agreed that no, they don't need to be circumcised.
 
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I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.
I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.
I need some help. A friend mentioned something called the Council Cinea which gave us the Jesus a lot of us know. He said that Jesus was actually a man named Jeshua. This makes me concerned. I want to be right with God and know that I know what is true and what He intended for us to know. How can I be right if man has molded our Father's words and teaching so much? Also, I know that the Vatican took 14 books out of the Bible. How do we know we're not missing some vital information pertinent to our salvation? Please help.
 
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The God of the bible is our God. I came to know him not through the Bible in the first instance but through personal revelation. There are more than 50 different versions of the Bible and yes I do believe on that basis alone we can know it has been tampered with by man. I personally believe that if you keep his commands all 10, or attempt to with all your heart and love him and fellow man wih all your heart, God will guide you. I hear so often people telling me the old testament is no longer for us. That is utter rubbish. I would even go so far as to say that is a lie from the Devil and is straight out of hell. I will tell,you why, because in that part of the Bible it tells us how to have Gods mark on our forehead. If we have Gods mark we will hear his voice and that will lead us right. It is simple. Love God, accept the gift of salvation through the Lord and Messiah Yeshua/ Jesus and follow his commands. Yeshua is the Son of God who died for us and is the original name of the son of God who died to save us from our sins. It mean to deliver or rescue. Jesus is the English version of the Greek translation of this name. The early believers didn't have what we know as the new testament at all. I believe the Bible is a basis but it is a living book and God really will lead us to all truth that we will be able to discern in our spirit truth from lie. A subtle change really can very much alter meaning so it is very important we hear the voice of God.
 
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Historical Christianity

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The name Jesus is an English transliteration of a Greek form of the Hebrew name transliterated into English as Joshua. It was a popular name, reminiscent of the legendary Joshua who brought Israel into their promised land by slaughtering, enslaving, or driving away all its existing inhabitants. What better name for a man destined to drive Rome out of Judea?
 
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mcarmichael

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The name Jesus is an English transliteration of a Greek form of the Hebrew name transliterated into English as Joshua. It was a popular name, reminiscent of the legendary Joshua who brought Israel into their promised land by slaughtering, enslaving, or driving away all its existing inhabitants. What better name for a man destined to drive Rome out of Judea?
I have a nephew named Joshua.
 
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