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Could we be healed today

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by 1hope, Sep 5, 2002.

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  1. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    By the way I do have die hard knowlege about my future.
     
  2. reAsonX

    reAsonX Guest

    +0
    I tend to agree with Mr. SnaP. Eccl is not a good source of doctrine. It is Solomon recounting all the wrong decisions that he had made in his life. One error led to another, and all eventually were trashed in favor of the final one:

    Ecc 12:
    13 This is the end of the matter; all hath been heard: fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.
    14 For God will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


    And even this conclusion has to be read in the context of being a summation of the OT law... which is now done away in Christ.



    So one has to be very careful when quoting from Eccl as if it were doctrine to live by. In my study of this, it is certainly not NT theology, and barely OT. At best, it is the OT theology gone wrong.

    Ultimately Mr. Louus, I think if you follow this logic, the ultimate end of your reasoning will lead you to the same place it took Solomon, "vanity, vanity, all is vanity..."

     
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "We should do the works of Christ. Now look at the passage again. "

    I have, this is quite irrelevant to the discussion.

    "A. Now show me where it was Jesus will not to heal someone?
    "
    Showed you in mark. I can also show you where God didn't heal someone or caused them express pain for doing something righteous.

    "1 cor 12: 1+4+9" Based on that scripture I would say it is a gift in the same way teaching is. Good point. I still don't see how this factors in at all, when God doesn't want you to heal, your gift won't work, when he doesn't want you to speak, you will not be able to.

    "How or when do you know it is God's will to heal?"

    I'm not God, I don't always know, I DO know that he says no though from experience.

    "I know what you mean, its either yes, or no. "

    I disagree, its yes, no or wait on me.


    "If you pray for something, and God doesn't answer your prayer(meaning you assume He said no) do you ask for that same prayer again?"

    If I feel I need it, yes. I never said don't pray for healing, just be able to accept a no. Sometimes it is reveiled to them that that is God's final answer.



    "Show me where it was Jesus's will for people to be and to stay sick? "

    Sure, as soon as you show me the Holy spirit cureing blindess. Christ did that, and you seemingly want to seperate his actions from The Father. God did allow people to be sick and didn't heal them, he allowed them to die, he even sometimes willed it.



    "Cannot discover anything. Anything, as in nothing. "

    Again snup, you miss the context of the question. He is saying in terms of 7:14 you can't know your future, for you don't know the thoughts of God.



    "That is a blanket statement. "

    snup, your logic is very funny it reminds me of another guy I heard about. looked up 2 verses and said, "God show me what you want me to concentrate on today.." Leaving out context he fliped to the first verse and read it.."And Judus went out and hanged himself..." Leaving out context again he flipped to another and it say, "Go and do the same."


    "Eccl is not a good source of doctrine. "

    As a book by itself? Of course not, no book in the bible is, but lined up with the rest of the bible you can see some clear Godly wisdom and Ecc 7:14 is one of those Godly wisdom statements.


    "And even this conclusion has to be read in the context of being a summation of the OT law"

    Not really, that last statement is like the summation in 7:14 the duty of man is to keep the commandments, its the ONLY way to get to heaven. Fortunatly we have a stand in, a pitch runner, who did this for us, so we can literally say, "I have kept the whole law through Christ." :) he fufilled it.


    "I think if you follow this logic, the ultimate end of your reasoning will lead you to the same place it took Solomon, "vanity, vanity, all is vanity..."
    "

    and i would disagree, Soloman was the wisest man ever to live, though he didn't take his own advice, that doesn't mean the advice isn't right. Ecc 7:14 is Godly wisdom, ignore it at your own peril, but if you do, might as well ignore simlar Godly wisdom like Christ saying he is the way the truth and the life. when you pick and choose what you like from the bible, its not the bible that you believe, but yourself. I think its all truth, what about you?
     
  4. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    +21
    Non-Denom
    "So one has to be very careful when quoting fromÊEccl as if it were doctrine to live by. In my study of this, it is certainly not NT theology, and barely OT. At best, it is the OT theology gone wrong."

    you sum it up pretty nicely :)
     
  5. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    You might as well say that Eccl. 7:14a is Godly wisdom but part "b" isn't. The truth is that neither are, and You can not back up the belief that the first part is of God with any other scriptures. I challange you to find a scripture that agrees with Eccl. 7:14a. Such a scripture simply does not exist (please don't list other scriptures from Eccl.).
     
  6. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "The truth is that neither are, "

    No, the truth is, it seems you want to believe your words over God's.

    the verse is very much Godly wisdom.
     
  7. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Then prove it by taking my challange. I don't think that you will because you cannot back up your claims by the Word of God other then from one book. If your interpretation is real then it will be back up by other scripture in the word of God, so prove it.
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "If your interpretation is real then it will be back up by other scripture in the word of God, so prove it."

    *sigh* I HAVE! I gave you many examples, among those who were Joseph, Job, Christ himself, paul, and many many others. I backed up those examples with scripture such as John chapter 9, job 2:10 and a score of others. I more then passed your challege snup open your eyes.
     
  9. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Neither of those scripture show God creating bad times. Nor have any of all of the other scriptures you have listed. You have not met my challange you have continuely failled because you sight example that don't show who gave the bad times or examples where God only allowed it. Sight an example where God caused it. The truth is you can't because all of the examples in the entire Bible are really God pouring out His judgement, never just to show how great some guy is so that many will be saved or set free. There is no example in scripture to back up your opinion.
     
  10. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    "Joseph, Job, Christ himself, paul"

    So man wasn't the one who threw Joseph, Paul, and Jesus in jail. It was God. Oh, and God made Jesus give up His life. And maybe it was God that beat Him till He was close to death. And it wasn't satan who made Job sick it was God. I hate this "blame God for everything" lie. It's nothing but garbage from the pit of hell. God does not make men do evil things.
     
  11. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Neither of those scripture show God creating bad times. "

    Yes, they do, I don't think you have read them.

    "Sight an example where God caused it"

    cite an example where there is something that happens out of God's will.

    "never just to show how great some guy is so that many will be saved or set free."

    *sigh* plenty of examples. Try reading genesis chapter 37 to umm..how about 41.

    "So man wasn't the one who threw Joseph, Paul, and Jesus in jail. "

    God willed it to happen. It was in his will he caused it.

    "I hate this "blame God for everything" lie"

    Its not a lie snup, nothing happens that God doesn't want to happen, John 9 is a perfect example of that. God made pharro go after the isrealites, God made Job to be in pain, God made joseph sit in jail for 7 years for doing the right thing. Its all in God's will.

    "God does not make men do evil things."

    And again here we have your problem, you're so brainwashed you think going through trials, being sick or being poor is doing something evil. let God in your life snup so that he might reveil his truth to you.
     
  12. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    "Yes, they do, I don't think you have read them."

    I have read everything that you have thrown at me. And there is still nothing in your arguement.

    "God does not make men do evil things."

    "And again here we have your problem, you're so brainwashed you think going through trials, being sick or being poor is doing something evil. let God in your life snup so that he might reveil his truth to you."

    So God does make men do evil things?
     
  13. SUNSTONE

    SUNSTONE Christian Warrior

    +206
    Non-Denom
    You forgot D.
    "Tell me your experiences of being healed, and tell me your experiences of seeing someone healed."

    John 9
    You said the "we" in there means us, that we should do God's work as Christ.

    1.If we should do God's work, then show me in red ink where it was Jesus will to not heal someone?

    2.If God told you "no" as an answer to a prayer, then why would you ask Him agian?

    3.What does this verse mean, "and the prayer offered in faith "will" restore the one who is sick" ? Thats in James 5.

    4.Did Job have the same annointing as the church today? Did he have the Holy Spirit living inside of him?

    5.Tell me about this verse "Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but expecially that you my prophesy."?

    Ecc 7:14 is right, but not the way you see it Louis. The bible says it rains on the just and the unjust alike.
    But you take that scripture and put it with building your house on sand, or on the rock and this is what you get with all three verses including 7:14....

    Everyone goes through trials, it is those that stand on God's word (meaning those that are doers not just hearers of the word), they are the ones that have built, or are building their house on the rock.
    If you simply ignore the gifts, and use worldly things only like money, doctors,public schools(if you ignored the gift of teaching) and such as this, you have built your house on sand.

    So don't take that verse of 7:14 by itself, it goes with those other two verses, of it rains on the just and the unjust alike, and those who build their house on sand or built their house on the rock.
     
  14. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +12
    Amazing! 199 replies to such a simple question so simply answered by God's Word!
     
  15. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Rain is not considered a cures in the Bible. It is only considered a blessing because it yields crops. When the Bible says the it rains on the just and the unjust, it is saying the God blesses the just and the unjust. We in modern times think that rain is a curse becuse it inconvienses our lives, because we are selfish. If you were a farmer or a rancher then you would understand. God does not rain down curses on the just, otherwise the "you reap what you sow" idea would be a lie. As would most of psalms.
     
  16. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    +1,404
    United States
    Charismatic
    Single
    And the answer to the question is . . . .BabumBabumBabum(drum roll) :)



    YES! AND AMEN!

    For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. (2 Cor 1:20)


    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
     
  17. SUNSTONE

    SUNSTONE Christian Warrior

    +206
    Non-Denom
    I am not saying that rain is a curse. It probably has more than one meaning.

    [Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded upon the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act upon them, will be like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand.
    And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and it fell, and great was its fall.] Matt 7:24-27

    This is the rains I am talking about. Perhaps I was wrong by just saying rains.

    Do you notice that Jesus is talking about two people, but both of them hear the word, yet only one follows it. In proverbs 3:5-8 it says this....

    [Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
    And do not lean on your own understanding.
    In all your ways acknowledge Him,
    And He will make your paths straight.
    Do not be wise in your own eyes;
    Fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
    It will be healing to your body,
    And refreshment to your bones.]

    IN ALL YOUR WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE WILL MAKE YOUR PATHS STRAIGHT.

    Thats not a no, or a maybe, thats a promise.
     
  18. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    Its more then just a promise. He saying that He will make you path easier to travel and the distance shorter. That's powerful.
     
  19. SnuP

    SnuP A son of the Most High

    +9
    Non-Denom
    What I meant about the rain is that for the passage that says it rains on the just and the unjust, it should never be used to prove that God sends curses upon the unjust and the just. That line of thinking totally rules out the original intent of the passage and takes something of mercy and turns it into something evil. God is not in the buisness of cursing His own children. Rather He blesses His children and everyone else also. He is merciful, not mean.
     
  20. SUNSTONE

    SUNSTONE Christian Warrior

    +206
    Non-Denom
    God will test your faith.
    Do you believe in healings? How do you know unless you have been tested? The devil is doing the evil stuff, but it is God who lets the devil roam around.
    Even when Jesus returns and beats the devil to rule for a 1000 years, He is still going to let the devil out for a short time. Someone told me it is to test the new ones that are born during the 1000 year reign.

    You and I agree on the gifts of the Spirit. But we still have an enemy to fight and we use the sword(word of God) by faith to fight the enemy.
     
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