Could raising the minimum wage prevent thousands of suicides?

Trogdor the Burninator

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Small businesses won't be able to hire as many workers if they can even stay in business.
Not all suicides are because of lower wages.

On the other hand, paying people on minimum wage a little more would actually assist the economy, since poor people tend to spend by necessity most of what they earn. Meaning the business paying a little more on staff costs each week would benefit.
 
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FireDragon76

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My concern is that boosting the minimum wage could lead to inflation. Then your money won't buy as much stuff.

Other countries like Germany or Sweden have no minimum wage and have high standards of living. It seems to me the minimum wage is an inellegant tool to deal with complex social problems.

Progressive lunacy, like a "minimum wage" is a disincentive to be productive.

It's mean-spirited, punitive stuff like this I wish to distance myself from in criticizing the minimum wage. That's not a reasonable concern.
 
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Ken-1122

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Please give a citation for McDonald’s raising prices 10% when min wage went up 10%.
I don't remember exactly how much things went up, I just remembering prices increasing and my paycheck did not increase. And it was not like everything just went up the same amount, it was like the specials like the $1.00 specials increased to $1.25 special which was more than 10%, or the occasionally 2 for $3.00 sandwich "X" special, increased to 2 for $4.00 sandwich "X" special; then there were other things on the menu that didn't increase at all. So it seems some things increased more than 10% other things not at all.
And I don’t think you’ve done the math - a 10% wage increase does not require a 10% price increase to cover.
true; because not everybody got the 10% increase wage, like me for example; they didn't need to give me a raise in order to comply with the new rate.
What state was this in, and what year was it?
In 1990 the minimum wage went from $3.85 per hr to $4.25 per hr in Washington State
 
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Sparagmos

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I don't remember exactly how much things went up, I just remembering prices increasing and my paycheck did not increase. And it was not like everything just went up the same amount, it was like the specials like the $1.00 specials increased to $1.25 special which was more than 10%, or the occasionally 2 for $3.00 sandwich "X" special, increased to 2 for $4.00 sandwich "X" special; then there were other things on the menu that didn't increase at all. So it seems some things increased more than 10% other things not at all.

true; because not everybody got the 10% increase wage, like me for example; they didn't need to give me a raise in order to comply with the new rate.

In 1990 the minimum wage went from $3.85 per hr to $4.25 per hr in Washington State

so everything didn’t go up 10%. And I still think you’re confused about how much prices need to go up to cover a $.38 wage increase for some workers in a McDonald’s. If 3 of the 6 employees on a shift get a 38 cents an hour raise, that’s about $1.20 per hour total they’d need in increased revenue. If they raised the price of an item by 25 cents, that means that they would only need to sell 5 items per hour to cover the increase. Considering how many items they actually sell in an hour, they could have covered the increase by only raising prices by 5 cents an item or less! So if you got a 38 cents an hour raise, but bought your meals there every day and the cost of each meal went up 15 cents, you still come out ahead.
And if you look at Washington’s minimum wage history, there were so many years when it didn’t go up! But we all know McDonalds was still raising prices in the years when the wage didn’t go up. They had PLENTY of money to give people that $.38/hr raise.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Maybe yes, maybe not.

The ramifications of increasing minimum wage would actually NEGATE the benefits if talking of economy as a whole! (Prices of good would increase for example). The purchasing power of minimum wage earners may not increase at all.

All artificially raising the minimum wage would cause a person to have less money because everything will just self-adjust up. And since taxes are not adjusted, the higher income will cause a person to be taxed at a higher income level.

The math doesn't support your contentions. Wages represent only a portion of the cost of a product and, as such, the price increase needed to cover the cost of higher wages will be a smaller percentage than the hike in wages.

For example: let's say that a product sells for $1. Of that $1, half (50 cents) covers wages, a quarter covers non-wage overhead (i.e. 25 cents), and the remaining quarter (25 cents) is profit (i.e. a 33% profit margin).

If wages rise by 50% to 75 cents, then the total price would only have to be raised to $1.25 to cover it. The worker earns 50% more and pays 25% more, leaving money in their pocket.

That scenario leaves the owner with the same gross profit (25 cents), but a lower profit margin (25%). If they wanted to maintain the same profit margin, they'd raise prices to $1.33. In that case, the worker makes 50% more, while paying 33% more - they still come out ahead.

Learning more skills and getting a raise without changing the price of entry level positions (minimum) will allow you to have more real money to spend, even with more taxes.

No. I don't think people should gain skills and work their way out of minimum wage jobs. My daughter's first job at 16 was greater than minimum wage because she had a marketable unique skill. My son started at minimum wage in high school but was allowed to earn incentives so made above minimum wage in effect since he was willing to put in the extra effort.

This ignores the fact that many jobs - particularly unskilled jobs - are engineered to remove the sort of responsibility, decision-making, and other opportunities to add value that would bring these extra wages.

It also ignores the fact that in many places that employ a lot of unskilled labor, there are few opportunities to rise up and management is often poor at training up new leaders.

Minimum wage jobs are supposed to be entry level jobs.

Not when they were initially conceived, they weren't. FDR explicitly said they ought to be "living wage" jobs.


My concern is that boosting the minimum wage could lead to inflation. Then your money won't buy as much stuff.

We'd be better off. Low wages have basically lined the pockets of the upper middle class like me at the expense of the lower classes like my parents.

Other countries like Germany or Sweden have no minimum wage and have high standards of living. It seems to me the minimum wage is an inellegant tool to deal with complex social problems.

European countries have very strong labor unions that more-or-less negate the need for minimum wage laws. If you want to let unions take over everything in lieu of having a minimum wage law, well... you might find some friends on the left.


Suppose the government told you how much you had to pay for your daughter's piano lessons?

NO third party has the right to interfere with the free trade of two free parties.

You're just wrong. The constitution gives congress the right to interfere in free trade. Regardless, the labor market is far from perfectly efficient - there are loads of distortions in the labor market that require government intervention to fix so we don't quickly slide into a dystopian oligopoly.
 
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Ken-1122

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so everything didn’t go up 10%.
We’re talking 30 years ago; obviously I’m not going to remember the details of what happened back then. I just remember prices went up much faster than they normally do, but my pay didn’t increase at all, so the wage increase made me poorer.
And I still think you’re confused about how much prices need to go up to cover a $.38 wage increase for some workers in a McDonald’s. If 3 of the 6 employees on a shift get a 38 cents an hour raise, that’s about $1.20 per hour total they’d need in increased revenue. If they raised the price of an item by 25 cents, that means that they would only need to sell 5 items per hour to cover the increase. Considering how many items they actually sell in an hour, they could have covered the increase by only raising prices by 5 cents an item or less! So if you got a 38 cents an hour raise, but bought your meals there every day and the cost of each meal went up 15 cents, you still come out ahead.
Like I said, not everything went up just some things went up. Also you seem to be assuming a $.38 wage increase only costs the store $.38 per hr. As you know on average when you hire somebody, whatever agreed upon wage you hire that person at, it generally cost the employer 30%-40% more than their wage, (Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment insurance, Workman's comp, Payroll taxes, vacation pay, etc.) McDonalds type jobs usually pay less around 20%-25% above wage.(They don't pay retirement, or health insurance, but they pay more in unemployment insurance due to their high turnover rates) So whatever raise they get you can add that percentage to it as well.
And if you look at Washington’s minimum wage history, there were so many years when it didn’t go up! But we all know McDonalds was still raising prices in the years when the wage didn’t go up.
You aren’t under the impression that labor costs is the only cost of doing business are you? C’mon you know better than that!
They had PLENTY of money to give people that $.38/hr raise.
How do you know? Are you under the impression the store owner is going to pay the extra labor costs out of his profit? C’mon!!!
 
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blackribbon

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Do you have any facts that point to your numbers being a normal representation on how much goes to wages, profit, and overhead? I think you missed the cost of the product itself in that price. I don't think most products have a 25% profit margin either. Often for everything but the biggest companies, the profit margin is very close to the break-even mark for years while a company is becoming established. Any decrease in the profit means there is no reason for that company to stay open.

And the increase in minimum wages is an additive cost....the minimum wage is increase at the raw material stage...which increases the cost of the product at that stage....the increased cost of the raw materials are moved to a manufacturing level and the increase of minimum wage at that level now increases the base product even more....the increased cost of minimum wage at the shipping stage, adds even more to the already more expensive product...now the increased cost of minimum wage of the retail stage adds even more to the base product ... and again the price goes up. Now each of those minimum wage people got a bit more money. However, the price of the product has had to increase at least 4 times from what it used to be so the product is now a lot more expensive than it was before the minimum wage was increase and now may even be more than those minimum wage people can afford. However, lets assume that their new wage is proportionally equal to the cost of the new price of the product. However, their annual income has increased so they move up to a new tax bracket and now are paying more taxes because of their new tax bracket.
So in the end, they have less actual buying power because although they are paying the ration of money for a product, they are giving more to the government so they have less to spend.
 
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Ken-1122

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On the other hand, paying people on minimum wage a little more would actually assist the economy, since poor people tend to spend by necessity most of what they earn. Meaning the business paying a little more on staff costs each week would benefit.
How do you figure that would work? Please explain.
 
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