Could King David be raised up for the Jews decades before second coming of Jesus?

[LoAmmi]

Yes, it would be, but I think the widespread growth of the Baha'i Faith will likely accompany the world's move towards universal peace.

Lots of religions claim the same. TG would say that if true Christianity were embraced, there would be world peace. I just see that as pie-in-the-sky.

 

[TG123]

Lots of religions claim the same. TG would say that if true Christianity were embraced, there would be world peace. I just see that as pie-in-the-sky.

Why would there not be world peace with everyone embracing true Christianity? Jesus' teachings make it impossible for people to fight under any circumstance, or to economically exploit others, or to treat anyone with anything but love. If everyone lived their lives that way, how would wars be possible?

Do you believe there would be world peace if everyone embraced Judaism?

 

[LoAmmi]

Why would there not be world peace with everyone embracing true Christianity? Jesus' teachings make it impossible for people to fight under any circumstance, or to economically exploit others, or to treat anyone with anything but love. If everyone lived their lives that way, how would wars be possible?

Do you believe there would be world peace if everyone embraced Judaism?

Everybody could adopt pretty much any religion and follow it PERFECTLY there would be peace. But not fighting evil because of the way things could be if conditions were perfect is, as I said, a grave evil.

 

[TG123]

Everybody could adopt pretty much any religion and follow it PERFECTLY there would be peace. But not fighting evil because of the way things could be if conditions were perfect is, as I said, a grave evil.

What if you fight evil without using deadly force, or allowing yourself to hate?

You mentioned responses to the Holocaust, have you heard of Corrie Ten Boom? She and her family saved the lives of at least 5 Jewish people, who they hid in their home during the occupation of Denmark. They (she and her family) went to prison and concentration camps for that act of courage, but the people they were hiding almost all survived the war. The family hid 6 Jews in their home. 5 of them lived through the occupation. One of them, a woman called Mary, was killed by the Nazis.

Neither Corrie or anyone in her family killed a single Nazi soldier, or even tried. Some decades after the war, Corrie met one of the guards who abused her and the other inmates at Ravensbruck. Despite it being extremely difficult to do, she chose to forgive him.

Corrie Ten Boom and her family fought evil, but they did not kill anyone. Because of their resistance, at least 5 people lived through the war. I say at least, because Corrie also helped illegally supply ration cards to other Dutch Jews. God knows how many of them would have died without such help.

Were Corrie Ten Boom and her family doing a grave evil?
Corrie ten Boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[smaneck]

Lots of religions claim the same. TG would say that if true Christianity were embraced, there would be world peace. I just see that as pie-in-the-sky.

That's not exactly what we envision. We envision the movement towards world peace and the growth of the Baha'i community as parallel movements, not that everyone becoming Baha'i will bring about world peace. We refer to the former as the Lesser Peace. The emergence of a Baha'i Commonwealth would be the Most Great Peace, but that will likely take hundreds of years if not more.

 

[LoAmmi]

Meanwhile 12 million people lost their lives.......

Look, I love that people like this risked their lives to help those in danger. But would you like me to run the percentages of those saved by this kind of activity with how many died, but you're not going to like the math.

What ended the death was the destruction of the NAZIs though warfare. Without that, more people would have lost their lives.

What if you fight evil without using deadly force, or allowing yourself to hate?

You mentioned responses to the Holocaust, have you heard of Corrie Ten Boom? She and her family saved the lives of at least 5 Jewish people, who they hid in their home during the occupation of Denmark. They (she and her family) went to prison and concentration camps for that act of courage, but the people they were hiding almost all survived the war. The family hid 6 Jews in their home. 5 of them lived through the occupation. One of them, a woman called Mary, was killed by the Nazis.

Neither Corrie or anyone in her family killed a single Nazi soldier, or even tried. Some decades after the war, Corrie met one of the guards who abused her and the other inmates at Ravensbruck. Despite it being extremely difficult to do, she chose to forgive him.

Corrie Ten Boom and her family fought evil, but they did not kill anyone. Because of their resistance, at least 5 people lived through the war. I say at least, because Corrie also helped illegally supply ration cards to other Dutch Jews. God knows how many of them would have died without such help.

Were Corrie Ten Boom and her family doing a grave evil?
Corrie ten Boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[smaneck]

Why would there not be world peace with everyone embracing true Christianity? Jesus' teachings make it impossible for people to fight under any circumstance, or to economically exploit others, or to treat anyone with anything but love. If everyone lived their lives that way, how would wars be possible?

Dear TG123,

It seems to me that most of the biblical principles which would prevent economic exploitation are based on the Tanakh, not the New Testament.

Former President Carter was on the Colbert Report the other night talking about Habitat for Humanity. He mentioned that people who buy houses from them pay full price but they pay over twenty years with no interest. He noted that the Bible says you shouldn't take interest from poor people. He was sport on, but that is Old Testament not New Testament. Unfortunately Paul's freedom from the Law allows most Christians to ignore this.

warmest, Susan

 

[TG123]

Meanwhile 12 million people lost their lives.......

Look, I love that people like this risked their lives to help those in danger. But would you like me to run the percentages of those saved by this kind of activity with how many died, but you're not going to like the math.

What ended the death was the destruction of the NAZIs though warfare. Without that, more people would have lost their lives.

Actually, far more than 12 million were killed. If you take into account the mass murders of non-Jewish Slavs, the number rises to more like 18 million.

The bloodletting did not end everywhere with the fall of the Nazis. In Soviet occupied Poland, the UB murdered tens of thousands, and in Greece the civil war continued. Across Eastern Europe, Nazi tyranny was replaced by Soviet tyranny.

You are correct that what ended the Nazi genocide was warfare. However, what do you think would have happened if the majority of Aryan Germans reacted to Hitler like the Ten Booms did? He would have been powerless.

 

[LoAmmi]

You are correct that what ended the Nazi genocide was warfare. However, what do you think would have happened if the majority of Aryan Germans reacted to Hitler like the Ten Booms did? He would have been powerless.

and what would have happened if a space alien had landed and turned all the Nazi weapons of war into flowers? I don't live in a world where the Germans reacted that way. I live in a world where the majority of Christians in these nations gleefully went after Jews.

 

[smaneck]

Actually, far more than 12 million were killed. If you take into account the mass murders of non-Jewish Slavs, the number rises to more like 18 million.

If you include all the people who died in WWII the number rises to 60 million.

 

[smaneck]

and what would have happened if a space alien had landed and turned all the Nazi weapons of war into flowers? I don't live in a world where the Germans reacted that way. I live in a world where the majority of Christians in these nations gleefully went after Jews.

Hey, no one is criticizing Jews because they aren't pacifists.

 

[TG123]

and what would have happened if a space alien had landed and turned all the Nazi weapons of war into flowers? I don't live in a world where the Germans reacted that way.

Fair enough. You can't then say that massive peaceful resistance to Hitler would have failed. It didn't happen.

I live in a world where the majority of Christians in these nations gleefully went after Jews.

Depends which nations. In Germany and some Eastern European countries like Lithuania and Romania, yes.

In Denmark and Norway, no. In Bulgaria, no. In Poland, though there was a lot of antisemitism before the war and some Poles were Nazi collaborators, tens of thousands of others sheltered Jews and assisted them in other ways, though many were killed for that. Most of those who collaborated with the Nazis to kill them were targeted by the resistance groups and hated by most of the population.

 

[LoAmmi]

Fair enough. You can't then say that massive peaceful resistance to Hitler would have failed. It didn't happen.

and you can't say it would have worked. It didn't happen.

Depends which nations. In Germany and some Eastern European countries like Lithuania and Romania, yes.

In Denmark and Norway, no. In Bulgaria, no. In Poland, though there was a lot of antisemitism before the war and some Poles were Nazi collaborators, tens of thousands of others sheltered Jews and assisted them in other ways, though many were killed for that. Most of those who collaborated with the Nazis to kill them were targeted by the resistance groups and hated by most of the population.

Fair enough. But there were plenty who went out and rounded up Jews.

 

[r21c]

The point I'm making my stating that is, its a giant leap of faith to think somebody will be popping out of somewhere. Nobody even knows if Jesus existed.

I had never read about this location previously. Sounds cool!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus–Littrow_(lunar_valley)


Since time is going to be altered somehow in the age of Messiah...... you would think that they would have all kinds of time to visit every interesting place on earth!!!!????


.near-death.com/storm.html#a04
(Howard Storm)

 

[DennisTate]

Fair enough. You can't then say that massive peaceful resistance to Hitler would have failed. It didn't happen.


Depends which nations. In Germany and some Eastern European countries like Lithuania and Romania, yes.

In Denmark and Norway, no. In Bulgaria, no. In Poland, though there was a lot of antisemitism before the war and some Poles were Nazi collaborators, tens of thousands of others sheltered Jews and assisted them in other ways, though many were killed for that. Most of those who collaborated with the Nazis to kill them were targeted by the resistance groups and hated by most of the population.

Thank you for these details about what happened in Poland.

Now that you have got me interested in the topic I hope to research it further as time permits.

 

[BaconWizard]

Hey, no one is criticizing Jews because they aren't pacifists.

I am to a degree. It seems to me that most acts of violence are perpetrated by people (in this example Jews) who grew-up with the IDEA of being persecuted, but who have never actually experienced it.

I strongly suspect that most people who have genuinely suffered and unfairly so, don't then seek to make other ordinary people suffer too for ANY reason.

Just to add to other comments about pre-WWII antisemitism, I am under no illusion that "Hitler done it"

Antisemitism was rife in MANY countries including UK. Hitler was doing just fine as far as many governments and many ordinary people were concerned, until his global expansion got too much to ignore. Without Hitler, perhaps the holocaust would not have happened as it did. But nothing good would have happened for the Jewish people, nor under Communist rule.

However, it's all rather moot. It DID happen, and that is to everyone' s shame, or should be. The only remaining question is what our species learned.

Not very f**king much, it seems.

 

[DennisTate]

The point I'm making my stating that is, its a giant leap of faith to think somebody will be popping out of somewhere. Nobody even knows if Jesus existed.

An impressive percentage of people who report having a brush with death do seem to meet him. Many of them are so impressed that they change careers and invite a great deal of ridicule by giving public interviews.



near-death.com/storm.html

Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience


By Kevin Williams

Before his near-death experience, Howard Storm at Howard Storm was a Professor of Art at Northern Kentucky University, was not a very pleasant man by his own admission. He was an avowed atheist and was hostile to every form of religion and those who practiced it. He often would use rage to control everyone around him and he didn’t find joy in anything. Anything that wasn’t seen, touched or felt, he had no faith in. He knew with certainty that the material world was the full extent of everything that was. He considered all belief systems associated with religion to be fantasies for people to deceive themselves with. Beyond what science said, there was nothing else. But then on June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Howard Storm’s had a near-death experience due to a perforation of the stomach and his life was since forever changed. His near-death experience is one of the most profound, if not the most profound, afterlife experience I have ever documented. His life was so immensely changed after his near-death experience, he resigned as a professor and devoted his time attending the United Theological Seminary to become a United Church of Christ minister. Today, Howard Storm is presently happily married to his wife Marcia and is Pastor of the Covington United Church of Christ in Covington, Ohio. During his past time he has maintained his passion for painting but now, unlike in his past, he paints with a God state of mind which raises his paintings to a whole other level. On this website Pastor Storm shares a unique look at his paintings and the effect Jesus Christ has on his daily life and on his paintings. The following is the account of Pastor Howard Storm's near-death experience reprinted by permission.

I read "My Descent Into Death" by Howard Storm several years ago. It was excellent.

 

[DennisTate]

When shall this come to pass?

Previous to the fulfillment of

Jeremiah 33:16 - 26:
"In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,

Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;

Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me.

Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,

Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them."

Since this has not happened in the past I assume it must occur during what we Christians term the Millennium and Jews call The Era of Moshiach - Messiah.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Is King David raised up for the Jewish people a significant amount of time previous to when the feet of Messiah stand on the Mt. of Olives in fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14?

It is pretty obvious that Jesus/Yahushua expects us to believe in the specific fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" (Luke 24:25)

The Prophet Jeremiah stated clearly that David would be raised up for the Jews.

"But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." (Jeremiah 30:9)

It is relevant that Jesus/Yahushua clearly identified John the Baptist as a modern Elijah for his time period.

"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,....
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

Could a young, or perhaps not so young Jewish guy be the person who will be raised up for the nation of Israel as another King David much as John the Baptist was another Elijah?

Isaiah speaks about a King Cyrus type of person who was instrumental in assisting the Jewish people to rebuild the second temple to which Jesus/Yahushua came. King Cyrus was a Gentile or possibly a member of the lost tribes of Israel, and did not actually know the God of Abraham very well at all.

"Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" (Isaiah 45:1-5)

Although this King Cyrus person sounds somewhat like Jesus/Yahushua in some important ways the fact that it is mentioned that this person does not know God, proves to me that this is not Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua who in my opinion knew HaShem better than anybody else ever did.

Isaiah 66:5 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies." (Isaiah 66:6)

This verse seems to indicate that when the Messiah comes to the earth, there is a functioning temple, I assume on the Temple Mount!? It seems that enemies, typified by the historical Antiochus, have gained control of the temple. In this thoroughly left wing earth this is not so hard to imagine. These enemies apparently cause the sacrifices to cease after being offered for 42 months and apparently kick the Levites off the Temple Mount when they cause the sacrifices to cease?!?!

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (Luke 13:35)

Another valid possible way of looking at this verse, because scriptures seldom have one plain simple meaning that even a child could figure out, is that we Christians have a house that is pretty desolate and we may well not see the complete fulfillment of the Messianic kingdom until AFTER the Jewish people are offering sacrifices on their Temple Mount Complex.

I certainly am in no position to rule out a soon to be rapture that may even somehow fulfill Rosh ha Shanah or one of the other Jewish festivals but I tend to suspect from these verses that the full fledged Messianic kingdom may not be ushered in until we Christians admit that the prophet Ezekiel, came in the name of the Lord, and his words are inspired and blessed.

Sooner or later the Jewish people will fulfill each and every word given in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 regarding their Jerusalem Third or perhaps Fourth Temple Mount Complex.

I read My Descent Into Death by former atheist Howard Storm who died, went to hell, prayed and sang hymns while there, met Jesus/Yahushua, got saved, and was sent back to finish his lifetime. He studied and became a pastor. His idea of the kingdom of God being set up over two centuries would fit amazing well with the idea of the Jews building and finishing and offering sacrifices in a Jerusalem Temple Mount Complex previous to the time when the will of God is done fully on this earth!?

My point is that we had better be careful that we are NOT against the Jews in their efforts to rebuild their temple especially if we will not see the feet of Messiah on the Mt. of Olives, until after they fulfill many of the prophecies given to them. Actually, I will go further than this, I believe that Christians who believe in the inspiration of every word given through Ezekiel will assist the Jewish people in at least some capacity to accomplish the things that they must do, that we simply would have no clue how to accomplish!

(Howard Storm)
.near-death.com/experiences/storm03.html

This is the verse.
"But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." (Jeremiah 30:9)

This will literally come to pass . There will be a man who rules over Israel and who is recognised as a type of King David, practically the same. However, he will not reign over Israel before Jesus returns but will however be recognised by some of the Jews and Christians as a great leader. This man also goes by many other names that the Bible prophesies about. He is also known as the Elijah to come - one of the two witnesses and he is also known as John the Baptist who is come.

Some of the Jews will see him as their King David and others as Elijah too - who many Jews are expecting too.

Towards the end of the tribulation He will be killed along with he other witness Moses and they will be resurrected before the whole World. After a short while Jesus will return at His second coming with these two men and the 144.000. Then Elijah and Moses will sit next to Jesus, Elijah at His right and Moses at His left and they will rule over Israel and the Earth for the 1000 year reign.

 

[DennisTate]

Now with both President Donald Trump and P. M. Benjamin Netanyahu basically in favour of a Jerusalem Third Temple this question becomes much more relevant again.