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Could King David be raised up for the Jews decades before second coming of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by DennisTate, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Is King David raised up for the Jewish people a significant amount of time previous to when the feet of Messiah stand on the Mt. of Olives in fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14?

    It is pretty obvious that Jesus/Yahushua expects us to believe in the specific fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

    "Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" (Luke 24:25)

    The Prophet Jeremiah stated clearly that David would be raised up for the Jews.

    "But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." (Jeremiah 30:9)

    It is relevant that Jesus/Yahushua clearly identified John the Baptist as a modern Elijah for his time period.

    "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
    But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,....
    Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

    Could a young, or perhaps not so young Jewish guy be the person who will be raised up for the nation of Israel as another King David much as John the Baptist was another Elijah?

    Isaiah speaks about a King Cyrus type of person who was instrumental in assisting the Jewish people to rebuild the second temple to which Jesus/Yahushua came. King Cyrus was a Gentile or possibly a member of the lost tribes of Israel, and did not actually know the God of Abraham very well at all.

    "Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
    I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
    And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
    For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
    I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:" (Isaiah 45:1-5)

    Although this King Cyrus person sounds somewhat like Jesus/Yahushua in some important ways the fact that it is mentioned that this person does not know God, proves to me that this is not Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua who in my opinion knew HaShem better than anybody else ever did.

    Isaiah 66:5 ¶ Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies." (Isaiah 66:6)

    This verse seems to indicate that when the Messiah comes to the earth, there is a functioning temple, I assume on the Temple Mount!? It seems that enemies, typified by the historical Antiochus, have gained control of the temple. In this thoroughly left wing earth this is not so hard to imagine. These enemies apparently cause the sacrifices to cease after being offered for 42 months and apparently kick the Levites off the Temple Mount when they cause the sacrifices to cease?!?!

    "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (Luke 13:35)

    Another valid possible way of looking at this verse, because scriptures seldom have one plain simple meaning that even a child could figure out, is that we Christians have a house that is pretty desolate and we may well not see the complete fulfillment of the Messianic kingdom until AFTER the Jewish people are offering sacrifices on their Temple Mount Complex.

    I certainly am in no position to rule out a soon to be rapture that may even somehow fulfill Rosh ha Shanah or one of the other Jewish festivals but I tend to suspect from these verses that the full fledged Messianic kingdom may not be ushered in until we Christians admit that the prophet Ezekiel, came in the name of the Lord, and his words are inspired and blessed.

    Sooner or later the Jewish people will fulfill each and every word given in Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 regarding their Jerusalem Third or perhaps Fourth Temple Mount Complex.

    I read My Descent Into Death by former atheist Howard Storm who died, went to hell, prayed and sang hymns while there, met Jesus/Yahushua, got saved, and was sent back to finish his lifetime. He studied and became a pastor. His idea of the kingdom of God being set up over two centuries would fit amazing well with the idea of the Jews building and finishing and offering sacrifices in a Jerusalem Temple Mount Complex previous to the time when the will of God is done fully on this earth!?

    My point is that we had better be careful that we are NOT against the Jews in their efforts to rebuild their temple especially if we will not see the feet of Messiah on the Mt. of Olives, until after they fulfill many of the prophecies given to them. Actually, I will go further than this, I believe that Christians who believe in the inspiration of every word given through Ezekiel will assist the Jewish people in at least some capacity to accomplish the things that they must do, that we simply would have no clue how to accomplish!

    (Howard Storm)
    .near-death.com/experiences/storm03.html
     
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    A couple of years ago I ran into the most amazing writing by a man from Uganda:


    http://www.christianforums.com/t7647317-3/


    ...
    Over this past decade I have thought and written quite a bit on this topic and one conclusion that I came to is that any attempt to rebuild the Jerusalem Third Temple....before the 2000 year anniversary of the resurrection of Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua.....would almost certainly be a mistake for a Christian or Messianic Gentile or Messianic Jew!

    I am not sure if the 2000 year anniversary of the resurrection will be 2028, or 2029, or 2030 or 2031 or 2032 or 2033...but whatever year is the 2000 year anniversary of the resurrection will almost certainly be important somehow regarding the fulfillment of the prophecies in Ezekiel regarding the Jerusalem Third TEmple complex???!!!
     
  3. FrenchyBearpaw

    FrenchyBearpaw Take time for granite.

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    Another non-specific, vague, pattern seeking post-diction prophecy.... yawn.
     
  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    How about the prophecy of the restoration of the lost tribes of Israel that goes back far more than two millennia!


    Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Ecclesiasticus Chapter 48
    And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch .............Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob."


    Does this catch your attention a little better FrencyBearPaw?

    French Canadians are Jewlicious? | Jewlicious THE Jewish Blog


     
  5. FrenchyBearpaw

    FrenchyBearpaw Take time for granite.

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    Yaaawn... more vague proclamations. Self fulfilling at the most, coincidental at the least, and most certainly not miraculous or "prophetic."
     
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Would you personally be impressed if all of a sudden the weather patterns in the Middle East began to alter and the Islamic nations that allow Jews and Noahides and Messianic Gentiles and Messianic Jews to attend the Festival of Tabernacles in Jerusalem, and then return home, that nation receives rain in due season and the deserts become green????


    http://www.christianforums.com/t7728207/
    Would the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple stabilize the climate???

    That is certainly what is implied in the Book of Zechariah!

    Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

    Zechariah 14:16 ¶ "And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

    So this seems to imply that if, for example the nation of Jordan would allow Jews, Noahides and Messianic believers to travel to Jerusalem freely, there is a promise they would be given rain in due season which could soon result in much of their desert areas being turned green.
     
  7. FrenchyBearpaw

    FrenchyBearpaw Take time for granite.

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    When shall this come to pass?
     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    According to the near death experience of former atheist Howard Storm God wants to do all this before two centuries go by?!



    near-death.com/experiences/storm03.html
    Howard Storm:

     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    i realize that two centuries can seem like quite a long time and you probably think that you will be dead by then but Howard presents a powerful case that our consciousness doesn't end at death:



    near-death.com/experiences/storm01.html
    Howard Storm:
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    On the other hand.....if the raising up of King DAvid in our time period.......perhaps previous to the coming of Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua to stand on the Mt. of Olives as mentioned in Zechariah 14 .....fits with the restoration of the lost tribes of Israel and the work of the final Elijah.......then the Igbo people of Nigeria will sure be happy!!!!


    Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Ecclesiasticus Chapter 48
    [1] And Elias the prophet stood up, as a fire, and his word burnt like a torch.......
    "Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob."


    Basically.....if somebody claims to be the final Elijah........and if they do nothing for the Igbo descendants of the lost tribes.......their claim would be pretty hollow!!!!!!!!
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    The restoration of the lost tribes of Israel....is a massive subject.

    "The Igbos and Israel" - a new cultural study by Chukwukaodinaka Ilona | Igbo Israel Online
     
  12. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    I have yet to see anyone raised after having been dead for thousands of years. At best you might be able to clone the person if you come across some of their DNA. I understand that it's supposed to be "supernatural" but I haven't seen it done supernaturally either nor have I come across any real evidence of such a thing having taken place in the past. It doesn't seem very probable at all.

    Maybe your talking reincarnation instead though? I don't think such a thing takes place but I can't rule it out all together. I would say it's rather improbable given what I do know about the relation of complex mind to a functioning brain though. How would ones experience of personal subjectivity go from one brain to another?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  13. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

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    I feel like this question is probably better suited for General Theology. They love this stuff.
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Well........Messiah Jesus/Yehoshua at this moment has technological capability that is far beyond what we humans possess so surely in his present state He would be determined to fulfill his own prophecy about Elijah shall first come and RESTORE ALL THINGS?????????!!!!

    The same principle applies to the raising up of a modern King David, perhaps in a similar manner to how John the Baptist was somehow Elijah......after all .....while human Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua sure was dogmatic that we should believe in the prophecies contained in the Jewish Bible......
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Luk&c=24&t=KJV#25
    Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:


    OUch.......that kinda stings!!!!!!!

    Aha yes.........you could be onto something there too......
    http://www.christianforums.com/t7670636/
    How exactly was John the Baptist somehow Elijah????
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  15. dlamberth

    dlamberth Senior Contributor Supporter

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    I can't help but think that this person would be taken as the anti-Christ by much of the Christian community.

    .
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Exceptionally insightful comment diamberth!!!!!!!!!!

    Moshiach ben Ephrayim/Yosef of Jewish apocryphal teachings has been postulated by Christian theologians to be none other than the anti-Messiah!!!!!!
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    That could be true.......but.........this idea has the potential to transform the relationship between Christians, Jews and Moslems over the next two or three decades!!!!!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_ben_Joseph
    The similarities between this Moshiach ben Ephrayim to the final Elijah are nothing less than astonishing!!!!!???
     
  18. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    What technology does he posses and where does he store his equipment?
     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I am of the belief that every bit of technological development that humanity has made over these past three centuries is at best a pale anemic version of technology that exists in the higher dimensions of space - time.


    The therapy of love and enlightenment

     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Here is a topic related to G-d technological capabilities:

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7755986/

    Could jewels given in worship meetings be information recording devices?
    If so will human technology increase so much over the coming five or ten decades that the time may come when we find out what is somehow recorded on those jewels and other precious stones that have been reported to appear in various worship services?????

    Pastor Rick Joyner:
    Grace and Truth

    I turned away from the door and retreated fast. There was a beautiful red stone nearby, which I almost lunged at to lay my hands on it. Immediately I was in the Garden of Gethsemane beholding the Lord in prayer. The agony I beheld was even more terrible than the door I had just seen. Shocked, I jerked my hand away from the stone and fell to the floor in exhaustion. I badly wanted to return to the blue or green stones, but I had to regather my energy and sense of direction. The angels were quickly all around me serving me. I was given a drink that began to revive me. Soon I was feeling well enough to stand and begin walking back to the other stones. However, the recurring vision of the Lord praying compelled me to stop.

    "What was that back there?" I asked.

    "When you touch the stones we are able to see a little of what you see, and feel a little of what you feel," said the angel. "We know that all of these stones are great treasures, and all of the revelations they contain are priceless. We beheld for a moment the agony of the Lord before His crucifixion, and we felt briefly what He felt that terrible night. It is hard for us to understand how are God could ever suffer like that. It makes us appreciate much more what an honor it is to serve you whom He did it for."
    .....

    .....
    "Now I must go back to the red stone. I know now that is the greatest treasure in this room, and I must not leave until I am carrying that treasure in my heart," I said with more resolution in my words than I felt in my heart at that time, but I nevertheless knew that it was true."

    The Truth of Grace

    The time that I spent at the red stone was the most painful that I have ever experienced. Many times I simply could not take any more but had to withdraw my hand. Several times I went back to the blue or green stones to rejuvenate my soul before I returned. I was extremely hard to return to the red stone each time, but my love and appreciation for the Lord was growing through this more than anything I had ever learned or experienced.

    Finally, when the presence of the Father departed from Jesus on the cross, I could not stand it anymore. I quit. I could tell that the angels, who were also experiencing what I was, were in full agreement. The willpower to touch the stone again simply was not in my anymore. I did not even feel like going back to the blue stone. I just laid on the floor weeping over what the Lord had gone through. I also wept because I knew that I had deserted Him just like His disciples. I failed Him when He needed me the most, just like they did.

    After what seemed like several days, I opened my eyes. Another eagle was standing beside me. In front of him were three stones, one blue, one green, and one red. "Eat them," he said. When I did, my whole being was renewed, and both a great joy and great soberness flooded my soul.

    When I stood up, I caught sight of the same three stones set into the handle of my sword, and then on each of my shoulders. "These are now yours forever," the eagle said. "They cannot be taken from you, and you cannot lose them."

    "But I did not finish this last one," I protested.

    "Christ alone will ever finish that test," he replied. "You have done well, but you must no on now."
    The Hordes of Hell are Marching
    [​IMG]
     
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