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Featured Could CoronaVirus play a role in global economic/polical change regarding prophecy?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by John Helpher, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    I've been reading and watching a lot recently about the coronavirus. In the U.S., part of the bailout package for the public (and businesses) includes plans for a digital currency to help make the transactions smoother. I've been concerned for quite a while as to how the world's economic trend toward a cashless society strongly resembles the mark of the Beast prophecy.

    Also, it seems like there will be opportunity for some pretty significant political upheaval, especially regarding America's role as the world's superpower and the growing alliance between China and Russia threatening to upend America's dominance. I'd like to hear what others think of the points raised in this video and I look forward to stimulating discussion.

     
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  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The only prophecies I consider are ones regarding this pandemic, posted before the second week in January, well after it started.

    Mystery bug behind China's pneumonia outbreak identified
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  3. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    I think there may be a misunderstanding. I'm not talking about a prophecy which predicted the virus, but rather how the virus could be an event which triggers prophecy like the mark of the beast or a shake-up in world politics consistent with what biblical prophecy suggests.
     
  4. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 NKJV
     
  5. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Some good points in the video, John. However I do not agree that China will be the Global Power behind the A/C. God`s word clearly tells us it is Islam.

    This virus is but a catalyst to fasten the economic Tsunami rolling out now - the Black horse of Rev. 6.
     
  6. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    Just based on what's actually happening in world politics right now, It's pretty hard to say that Islam (as a religion) has more clout or influence than China. China and Russia both have similar ideologies and they're both permanent members of the U.N. security council. The animal symbology used both in Daniel and the Revelation refer to the animals actually used by those two countries today (e.g. the dragon and bear).

    While Islam may play some minor role, I think people's interest in it as a major part of prophecy stems more from a reaction to the sensationalism and hype of terrorism in the past 20 years than any reasonable correlation to prophecy, though I'm open to discussing your reasons, if you'd like.
     
  7. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi John,

    Good to talk with you. I do agree that China is recognised by the `dragon,` however in Revelation we are told that it is part of Satan`s strategies and is described as such. (Rev. 12: 9)

    China is not as powerful as the `Big 4` or `Quartet of power,` (as the media calls them). That is the British Commonwealth, USA, Russia & the EU. They are Great Federations while China is just a middle power.

    Note the UN is but a `puppet` of the G20 who holds all the power & authority. The UN is used to bring people together with the philosophy of `We can transform the world together.`


    As to Islam, yes it is not a great power yet. However once God brings the Russian Federation down to the mountains of Israel and deals with them there, (next year, I believe), then the Peace negotiator arises and will bring them together. With the Russian Federation, (armies) gone there will be a power vacuum in the Middle East and then the world will see Islam arise.
     
  8. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    Thanks for your response. I think we have pretty different perspectives on what kind of power China has. China has the 2nd largest economy in the world. While America fluffs around with the politics of covid-19, China has clamped down on it's own emergency (where the numbers indicate they've genuinely got the virus under control in their own country) to the point where they're able to send aid to other 3rd world countries (e.g. countries in Africa). America isn't doing that.

    Regarding China's economy, have you seen the recent slew of controversies over entertainment and business corporations heeling to Chinese demands regarding how it is perceived in the world? For example, at an NBA basketball game some fans were holding up "Free Hong Kong" signs. China complained, threatening economic sanctions on the NBA's profits in China (i.e. cancelling games, promotions, etc). Any further attempts to display such signs at the games by fans who'd paid their way in were subsequently stifled by security. In other words, China was able to take away the freedom of speech of Americans in their own country. That is power.

    Back in 2013, the original epicenter of the outbreak of virus in the movie "World War Z" was China. Of course the Chinese government took exception to this and demanded the epicenter be rewritten to some other location or they'd block the movie from release in China, thus resulting in a loss of possibly 100's of millions for the production company.

    It is well documented that China has a long history of using political prisoners (such as the Falon Gong practitioners and now Uighur Muslims) for transplant tourism. These people are arrested on the flimsiest of charges and disappear into the penal system. A foreigner from another country comes looking for a kidney, heart, liver, lung, or eye transplant and what would take years of waiting in their own home country suddenly becomes available within a few days in China. Despite the factual documentation, world powers like the U.S., Australia, and the U.K. have not openly condemned the practice nor initiated any practical legislation for their own citizens who perpetuate the human-rights abuses by continuing to buy the illegally obtained organs. Once again, this is because of financial pressure; no on wants to lose out on the millions and billions available from the Chinese consumerist economy.

    While there are Islamic countries with wealth, that wealth is almost exclusively limited to the elite within that country; they do not exercise nearly the same kind of political clout which China does. China is a permanent member of the U.N. Security counsel. While you may view it as only a puppet, prophecies from Daniel and the Revelation both use all the same animal imagery to describe the final world beast as can be found on the U.N. counsel right now, with the exception of the "eagles' wings" which were "plucked". The prophecy says that these wings are found on the back of a lion (the animal symbol for the U.K) and, when the eagle's wings are plucked, the lion is given the heart of a man and made to stand up on it's hind legs (i.e. it is no longer a "beast" or world power; it loses it's political influence as a world player). If America is destroyed, there would be nothing stopping a China/Russia (drangon/bear) take-over of the U.N., effectively transforming it into a new political institution that will definitely not be a puppet, supported by ten "kings" (i.e. the ten, 3rd-world rotating members of the security counsel.

    All of this prophecy lines up perfectly regarding the already established world powers. A sudden Islamic rule doesn't fit the bigger picture at all.

    I understand you believe that Russia will go attack Israel, but that also does not fit the prophecy; it is an interpretation made popular by the Jerry Jenkins/Timothy LeHaye series "Left Behind", but then again they also suggested it will be okay for Christians to take the mark of the Beast so long as, in their hearts, they pretended that they were really loyal to Jesus; they referred to it as "bi-loyalty".

    Prophecy is often written in such a way that more than one interpretation can be accurate at the same time. In this case, it is more likely that any reference to Israel in the context of destruction coming from Russia is a reference to America, which is essentially one and the same with the modern-day nation of Israel. This is further supported by references to great destruction coming for Israel from a bear over the North pole. The physical nation of Israel is not North of Russia; it is west. However, America is north of Russia, over the North pole and fits perfectly with what prophecy says about the eagle's wings being plucked, thus leading to radical, drastic changes (i.e. the ten kings hating Babylon and destroying her, then giving their power to the Beast, thus allowing the Beast to come into political power as the final world empire).
     
  9. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Thank you for your thoughts. I do realise that China has a very large economy, however let`s look at the Global Government who has all the power.

    The British Commonwealth, America & Europe are the main powers (with Russia) in the G7, G20 & UN. Thus they are the controlling powers of the world. They are about to give themselves more authority and appoint a person with executive authority over the international organisations. This is the office of the coming False Prophet.

    He holds dual offices of the economy and religion.
    Economy - the IMF (getting more power) the FSB, (rules & regulations) & WTO etc.
    Religion - the UN with its moral values world wide.

    Watch who they put in charge of the economy.
     
  10. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    The prophecy suggests there will be huge changes to these political positions. Daniel refers to eagle's wings being plucked, the lion's position as a "beast" (i.e. world power) being taken away, horns (i.e. world powers) being plucked up by the roots, and Babylon (a great city famous for it's materialism) being burned with fire by "10 kings" who then give their authority to the Beast.

    The same animal which Daniel refers to when describing the conglomeration which makes up the beast are used in the Revelation description of the beast, except for the eagle's wings. Considering how closely all this animal symbolism parallels our modern day worldly governments, it strains credulity to suggest that the eagle in Daniel's vision does not correlate to America; those wings were plucked. Such a devastating event as the destruction of America would provide opportunity for huge and dramatic change. The U.K. and France (the only other two pro-democratic, permanent members of the security counsel) would be powerless to stop a pro-totalitarian alliance between Russia and China from taking control, with support from the 10 rotating members (i.e. the 10 kings who give their authority to the beast) and changing the U.N. into a new political vehicle that definitely would not be a puppet.

    I'm not opposed to radical Islam playing some role in world politics, especially with their history and proximity to Jerusalem, where the 3rd temple will be built. Certainly their cooperation will be needed. But what I've described above is far more consistent with what the prophecy actually says.
     
  11. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    G3061
    λοιμός
    loimos
    loy-mos'
    Of uncertain affinity; a plague (literally the disease, or figuratively a pest): - pestilence (-t).
    Total KJV occurrences: 3
     
  12. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    Thanks, ewq.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi Marilyn, as you know I don't agree with the muslim world domination pov. However, there is one notable action that happened at around the same time the C19 mania went global.

    And that is the oil war between Russia and the Saudi's. You can internet search Russian Saudi oil war.

    The reason, imo, that is notable regarding bible prophecy is that in Ezekiel 38 when Gog/Magog move against Israel, Sheba and Dedan ask have you come to take a spoil ?

    13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

    I have heard Dedan is referring to Saudi. If so, then there could be concern when the Russians and Iranians (a foe to the Saudi) start mobilizing, to the Saudi's that are at a oil price war - trying to flood the market with cheap oil, to counter Russia's strategy.

    The Russians may say, okay we are going to just going to go down there and take over your country.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    John, what to look for is see what materializes in the EU and any structural changes to their government. The ten kings (leaders) in Daniel 7 come to power and then the little horn associated with that group. Not necessarily ten countries, but the EU structured to represent ten regions. But right now, it can not be said for sure.

    What is in the news is the governments around the world taking radical actions in the C19 mania. And the financial turmoil is all over. And oil prices sinking, due to oil war between Russian and Saudia. It is kinda like a perfect storm.
     
  15. John Helpher

    John Helpher John 3:16

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    Hi Doug. Thanks for sharing those comments. Perhaps something could come of the EU, though I think the answer is simpler than that as we've already got a world-governing body of 10 "kings" in the for of the 10 rotating members of the U.N. security council.

    The thing with the horns gets a little tricky because Daniel's prophecy references 10 horns, with 3 horns being plucked up by the roots (which correlates to the 3 ribs the in bear's mouth) so one is left with the impression that when these 3 horns are plucked up there would be only 7 horns left. I think this is one of those areas of prophecy that requires a look at the bigger picture to get it right. The horns (which are wearing crowns) represent kings (or world powers). These 10 horns are also referenced in Revelation 17 as helping the beast to destroy some other world power referred to as Babylon, and in the process using their authority to help the beast.

    Putting these two examples together, my suggestion is that the three horns which are plucked up in Daniel's vision are America, the U.K., and France (3 of the 5 permanent members on the U.N. security council). If America can be destroyed (i.e. the 10 kings burning babylon with fire in order to give their power to the Beast, which also correlates to the eagel's wings being plucked) then there's no way the U.K. and France would have the clout to stand against a total restructuring of the U.N., where the 10 rotating members become the deliberative body with a Russia/China (bear/dragon) alliance orchestrating world policy behind the scenes. Daniel's vision pretty much states this about the U.K., where the lion is given the heart of a man (i.e. it is no longer a beast, or world power) and the wings of the fowl (france) are merely an appendage on the back of the leopard (probably representing 2nd and 3rd world countries as a whole, which is what the 10 rotating members of the U.N. security council is made up of now).

    Considering America's recent role in the world as a "me-first" country, mistaking greatness for dominance of other countries both politically and materially, it's not hard to see both how America fits the description of Babylon in Revelation 18 as well as motivations for why other countries would benefit from destroying her.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    In Daniel 11:40-44, the person, near the end of the 7 years, will be attacked from the South, North, East, indicating that he will be king, leader, of the west, the EU with its supporting allies of the U.S. and Canada. So it cannot be a global U.N. type one world government, as his kingdom.

    7 years at least earlier, I think the case will be that of the ten kings, in the EU, 7 will politically support the little horn person, and that the 3 against him, he will remove and replace them. I don't think it is that he will be removing countries, because at the time he becomes the beast, years later, there are the ten kings of that kingdom (the EU) that rule with him for his beast phase. And they hand their kingdom over to him, which I think it is just a matter of him becoming dictator of the EU - whereas early on, he ascends through some sort of democratic process.
     
  17. Berean Tim

    Berean Tim Member

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    It's hard not to relate current events like this to bible prophecy. If you wanted to take over this is how it could be done. Isolate everybody (no groups larger than 10). Then put the "plan" in place
     
  18. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Douggg,

    Yes I saw that also - the apparent oil war between Russia & Saudi`s. However they can withstand the cheap price whereas the USA is having trouble. Thus I see their actual target is to bring down the USA`s dollar.
     
  19. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

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    Hi Tim,

    Well actually the 10 horns/kings come from the last `terrifying beastly` Federation/kingdom(Dan. 7: 7)This has yet to arise and I believe it is Islam. Now Islam has 10 nations within it - 7 in the GCC (Gulf Cooperation council) and then 3 when the A/C brings Syria, Iraq and Jordan together. (the old Assyrian region, and that is why the A/C is called the Assyrian. Isa. 31: 8)
     
  20. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The ten kings do not become kings or have kingdoms until the hour they are with the beast and since the beast does not exist now, neither do the ten kings/kingdoms.

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
     
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