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Could ANY conservative President not be hated? Thanks Trump...

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Servant68, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Maren

    Maren Veteran

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    And, yet, you ignore that Pres. Bush, the one that preceded Obama, raised the debt by 101%, and even Pres. (St.) Reagan raised the debt by 186%. Strange that Conservatives only care about the debt being raised when it occurs under a Democratic President.

    Oh, also, since you brought it up (and forgive the edit, but figured it was better than adding a new post), why are you only using the Workforce Participation numbers under Obama? The numbers are virtually unchanged under Trump (maybe a 0.1% increase) -- so I guess by your logic we are still in the recession?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  2. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    And the downward curve afternue took office means the growth rate (ie the deficit) was slowing/shrinking.
     
  3. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

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    What character issues does Trump have that his conservative supporters aren't glossing over?
     
  4. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

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  5. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    No, I'm happy to see you quote a source which contradicts your own claim. 86% growth isn't doubling.
     
  6. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm not sure of your point. Goldwater also opposed Social Security. He wanted much less government intervention, especially at the federal level.

    With regard to the civil rights, he didn't think that this was a matter for federal legislation.
     
  7. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

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    Oh so he was even more terrible.
    Yeah, and that's horrifying. Black people in the South didn't even have the right to vote. 93% of Southern Congressmen voted against the Civil Rights Act. Desegregation was not gonna happen without federal legislation.

    This is one of the main things I don't like about American politics: A politician can justify any cruelty by saying he believes in "small government principles." If you ask me, it's sick to be so singularly focused on the size of the federal government that you want to terrorize black people and let old people die in poverty. I understand if deregulation was a priority for Goldwater, but some things should clearly, without question, take precedence over it, just like anything else. It's not like the Civil Rights Act or Social Security turned America into a dictatorship; they were entirely sensible government actions that people take for granted today.

    No politician even consistently believes in small government. Take a look at all the politicians in your lifetime who've said we shouldn't do much about civil rights or poverty because small government is sacred. Then ask yourself how much their principles have meant to them when it comes to stopping gay people from marrying, or maintaining a larger military budget than the next eight countries combined, or imprisoning more people than any other country on Earth. The fact is that they have no "small government principles": they have screwed up priorities.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  8. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

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    To demonstrate the nature of right-wing libertarianism, here's a little history I was just reading about. In the first big rally of his presidential campaign, Goldwater accused LBJ of "fomenting violence, destruction and disobedience" by supporting civil rights protests, and argued that "integration is a problem of the heart and of the mind. . . . You cannot pass a law that will make me like you—or you like me." Then Roy Wilkins, the president of the NAACP and one of the "Big Six" civil rights leaders, sent him this message in response:

    Your declaration that the election of your party to power would cool the fires of racial strife ignores that that strife has grown out of the refusal of certain states to initiate corrective measures themselves or to permit the federal government to protect the Constitutional rights of United States citizens residing within their boundaries. The history on this issue is clear and is written in blood, all the way from the Civil War to the assassination of Medgar Evers in Jackson, Mississippi. Your record is clear also. You have stated repeatedly that you believe in leaving civil rights matters to the states. Regardless of how you rationalize your position, you grant immunity to, if you do not affirmatively support, the use of the cattle prods and shotguns of Alabama state troopers, the armored tank and dogs and fire hoses of the Birmingham police, the bomb murderers of little children in church in Alabama and the assassins in Mississippi. . . . There is no bill pending in any legislature which, to use your completely misleading language, seeks to force anyone to like anyone else. The pending civil rights bill seeks to secure the elementary rights to which every American citizen is entitled whether anyone likes him or not.
     
  9. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I disagree. There used to be a libertarian wing of the Republican Party. Goldwater did indeed consistently believe in small government.
     
  10. pakicetus

    pakicetus sternodraugaz

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    What did he think of the Vietnam War?
     
  11. Belk

    Belk Senior Member

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    What about the 13 year old who accused him of rape?
     
  12. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know. He ran for office in 1964. The war wasn't an issue in that campaign.
     
  13. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    I did not hear about that. What's your source?
     
  14. Belk

    Belk Senior Member

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    The lawsuit she filed against him during the campaign.

    The Donald Trump underage rape accusation explained
     
  15. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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    It sure was. LBJ's campaign painted Goldwater as a warmonger. I don't know how accurate those charges were - Goldwater said we should let the Vietnamese handle it, but also advocated for looser use of tactical nukes in the region.
     
  16. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "I don't know, Davey..." Supporter

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    I don't think Trump is a true conservative in the traditional sense, he's more of a demagogue who doesn't mind flirting with extreme politics. He's far too chaotic and unreasonable.

    True conservatives are getting squeezed in the Republican party. I don't think someone like George W Bush would stand a chance now days.
     
  17. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My bad

    I seem to have a flawed memory.

    Goldwater attacks Johnson’s Vietnam policy - Sep 22, 1964 - HISTORY.com

    Goldwater wanted to bring the war to the North or withdraw.
     
  18. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Newbie

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  19. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I remember watching a documentary about Vietnam, The 10,000 Day War, that covered a lot more information than “Missing in Action” and “Rambo”.
     
  20. Maren

    Maren Veteran

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    I think someone like Ronald Reagan would be labeled as a RINO and be targeted by the "Tea Party" and the alt-Right.
     
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