Cosmos - Neil deGrasse Tyson

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lesliedellow

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I absolutely do know the difference between force and energy which is why I know for a fact that your ridiculous Pope Guth can't "borrow energy" from gravity. Apparently your Pope figure doesn't understand the difference between geometric features and energy.


Since he's violating the *prime directive* of GR theory that treats gravity as a geometric *curvature* of spacetime, not a form of *energy*
In both General Relativity, and Newtonian gravity recast as geometry, gravity is represented as a curvature in spacetime. In both the gravitational field is a source of potential energy.
 
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Michael

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Well, before they take the world by storm, Michael might want to learn the difference between force and energy, and Justa might want to learn the difference between charge and potential (amongst many many other things).

By the way....

Pope Guth doesn't even properly understand the concept of a "vacuum". His so called "false vacuum" which somehow magically holds "negative pressure" is just plain absurd. The lowest possible pressure state in a vacuum is zero, not negative infinity! Holy Cow.
 
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Michael

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In both General Relativity and Newtonian gravity, when recast as geometry, gravity is represented as a curvature in spacetime. In both the gravitational field is a source of potential energy.

By placing *distance* between objects he actually adds *more potential energy* into the system. His claim about a "net zero' amount of energy utterly and completely ignores the use of energy over time too.

In GR, gravity is a *geometric feature*. The gravitational field isn't "negative' or "positive". It's *handy* to treat it one way or the other for various scenarios, but in the end, GR can't 'balance out' the energy of the universe to a net zero energy state. Get real.

The worst part is that we all know that Guth didn't actually 'borrow energy' from the gravitational field, he *borrowed energy* from his inflaton field to overcome gravity. How can you even defend Guth's net zero energy nonsense? Come on!
 
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lesliedellow

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Michael

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In the real world, you're basically talking about a *non empty vacuum* that has *varying* amounts of kinetic energy flowing through it at all times, including neutrinos by the *billions*. You can assign a "baseline" at a *non zero* energy state, and call that point "0", and then watch it fluctuate up and down from that baseline. You're still talking about a *positive* pressure, and a *positive* amount of kinetic energy in every single experiment we could *ever* do on Earth.
 
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lesliedellow

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In the real world, you're basically talking about a *non empty vacuum* that has *varying* amounts of kinetic energy flowing through it at all times, including neutrinos by the *billions*. You can assign a "baseline" at a *non zero* energy state, and call that point "0", and then watch it fluctuate up and down from that baseline. You're still talking about a *positive* pressure, and a *positive* amount of kinetic energy in every single experiment we could *ever* do on Earth.

If a bird is sat on an electric capable, and that cable represents his universe, there is no way he could draw energy from that cable, even if he wanted to.
 
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Michael

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If a bird is sat on an electric capable, and that cable represents his universe, there is no way he could draw energy from that cable, even if he wanted to.

Little birdie Guth can borrow energy from his inflation field cable perhaps, but he absolutely cannot borrow energy from gravity.
 
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dcarrera

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In GR, gravity is a *geometric feature*. The gravitational field isn't "negative' or "positive". It's *handy* to treat it one way or the other for various scenarios, but in the end, GR can't 'balance out' the energy of the universe to a net zero energy state. Get real.

Sure it can. A flat universe is a universe with zero net energy. In fact, that is compatible with current observations. Our universe is at least "extremely flat", and it may well be exactly flat (zero curvature is compatible with observation).
 
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Michael

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Sure it can. A flat universe is a universe with zero net energy. In fact, that is compatible with current observations. Our universe is at least "extremely flat", and it may well be exactly flat (zero curvature is compatible with observation).

Care to explain what 'balances out" (to net zero energy) the sunshine on my face and the universes use of energy over time?
 
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Davian

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<rant> Pope Guth! </rant>

dcarrera, note that Michael will take every opportunity to rant about mainstream cosmology, as if in some way this will support his pet ideas of an eternal, aware, electrical universe. You may need heat shielding for the burning of all the strawmen he will bring to the thread. :cool:
 
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Michael

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dcarrera, note that Michael will take every opportunity to rant about mainstream cosmology, as if in some way this will support his pet ideas of an eternal, aware, electrical universe. You may need heat shielding for the burning of all the strawmen he will bring to the thread. :cool:

There's no end to your little deflection techniques are there? :) Sorry to burst your bubble of denial and all, but Guth personally used the term "free lunch" to describe the process. Blame him, not me.
 
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Davian

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Yep:

Oh yes it is according to Pope Guth!
By all appearances, you did not read this part: "Sure. Now you have to show that, by those words, he meant that the universe is free from entropy. You have not done so."

Derail your own thread if you like.:wave:
 
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Michael

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By all appearances, you did not read this part:

"That part" as you call it is your way of ignoring and deflecting from your error in your 'free lunch' question entirely. Guth did in fact call it a free lunch, and that was a *separate* question from your (2nd) entropy question.

"Sure. Now you have to show that, by those words, he meant that the universe is free from entropy. You have not done so."

I did that for you too when I showed you that he claimed to turn *disorganized vacuum energy* into higher forms and more organized forms of matter and energy. You simply ignored his little wave of his magic entropy defying wand routine at the start.
 
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Davian

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"That part" as you call it is your way of ignoring and deflecting from your error in your 'free lunch' question entirely. Guth did in fact call it a free lunch, and that was a *separate* question from your (2nd) entropy question.

I did that for you too when I showed you that he claimed to turn *disorganized vacuum energy* into higher forms and more organized forms of matter and energy. You simply ignored his little wave of his magic entropy defying wand routine at the start.
You already conceded in the other thread.:wave:
 
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