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dnc101
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Hard to argue with that, other than to say I think you may be a little too skewed in your percentage there. But that's opinion based on admitedly limited experience.... I am a systems analyst by trade. And while I agree that treating individuals as individuals is always a good practice, I also have no problem identifying commonalities, as well as the differences. One must look for trends and 90% solutions, and not get caught up in the details.
I've run into the 2 house (though I didn't know what it was at the time) and the Sacred Names extremist lunatic types (not that all are lunatics, just that the ones I met were certifiable). But I've also met some very sincere people who are just looking for some answers. I get some materials and books from one HR pastor over on the coast (Mark Biltz) who, while I don't always agree seems to be pretty solid.Hebrew Roots organizations are extremely easy to identify, really. They almost always feature belief in Two House Theology or Sacred Name Use... or both! Their members tend to be extremely (overly) zealous for Shabbat and Kashrut. But like the Seventh Day Adventists, they tend to know little more than these couple of easily identifiable public aspects of Torah-based identity. And, above all, Hebrew Roots groups can be distinguished by their general animosity towards tradition of any kind. They are Lone Rangers, at heart.
Depends. Using Biltz as an example again, he is very sympathetic to Jewish people and their faith. He also uses many Hebrew/Biblical customs in his services.Perhaps what confuses you is the fact that the anti-Jewish statements usually go along with anti-Church statements. I do not claim that they are not even-handed in their disdain for established communities. But, in the context of Messianic Judaism, they make it clear that they have no concern for identifying with the existing Jewish community. In fact, for Two Housers, their theology explicitly informs them that the Jews have nothing for them, at all.
Some maybe, and since you have more experience I'll say maybe even most. Just hasn't been my experience so far.You are missing my point, entirely. I'm not talking about accidental off-putting behavior. I'm talking about the clear and explicit teachings of HR leaders. They have no concern or regard for anything they identify as "Jewish". That's because they are locked into Two House theology, which tells them that "Judah" has nothing for "us Ephraimites".
Why would I be surprised when someone agrees? LOL! (j/k)You may be surprised to hear that I agree with this completely. As I see it, there is a spectrum with three major sections--Judaism, Christianity, and Messianic Judaism. Between MJ and both Judaism and Christianity, there is a sort of no-man's land that has to be crossed. Regardless where one starts, there has to be an integration of certain elements from the other side.
But, as you say, some get stranded in this no-man's land. I believe this is a result of getting caught up in pointing fingers at everybody else's alleged "errors". At this point, I see HR not as the necessary transitional stage I experienced, but stepping off the spectrum, and creating its own identity. This essentially turns my linear spectrum into a triangle.
Some probably get hung up in no-mans-land because of all the crap you have to wade through to get to the truth if you don't have a good MJ community to go to for help. It is easy to see how many fall prey to some outrageous, even cultish systems. But not everyone does, not even close. Most of us moved away from mainstream Christianity because we had enough discernment to know something was wrong. Most of us used that discernment, to varying degrees obviously, while we were looking.
I'll quote Pastor Biltz here, "The Jews know in part, and we (gentiles) know in part- the first one to humble himself before Gd and meet Him in the middle wins! He gets it all!" So some HR folks do agree with you there.I suppose what I am describing is the idea that one who leaves the two major Biblical-based religions has two possible solutions--1) Messianic Judaism, which welcomes the best of both worlds, and 2) Hebrew Roots, which rejects almost entirely the possibility that either Christianity or Judaism has anything worth preserving.
LROL, sounds like something I might do! But I will keep on tryin'.You have completely misunderstood my comments, ... Keep trying. ...
Dan C
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