Correct Explanation Of Messianic Judaism

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Avodat

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Totally Agree!

My previous comment shown *below was apparently misinterpreted by a few moderators and deleted with their mistaken assumption I'm not Torah Observant, thus receiving an infraction.

Isn't it generally agreed by MJs that of the mitzvot 613 commandments not all can be observed since the dispora and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70AD. Certainly they have religious significance, but where does the SOP imply that MJ men are to observe approximately 271 commandments. There may not even be an MJ SOP consensus as to the exact number (77 positive and 194 negative commandments) that should be observed by MJ men ... 613 – 271 observe = 342 cannot be observed

I wasn't aware until a recent infraction that apparently MJ men are required to observe all 613 commandments or they aren't considered Torah Observant by the SOP as apparently understood by CF Moderators. Thus, I received an infraction by Moderators that decided I'm not Torah Observant according to their interpretation of Tishri1's new SOP. This infraction brings into quention if Christian Moderators even understand the intent of the SOP with respect to a MJ being Torah Observant.

Shavuot was celebrated in Jerusalem on Monday and in America generally on Wednesday, but by some over two days. As one of three most sacred festivals there hasn't been any mention of the Feast of Weeks in this forum. Yet, I get an infraction from Christian Moderators because I don't believe it's necessary for an MJ to adhere to more than about 271 of the 613 commandments.




You are not allowed to discuss or criticise staff actions! I suggest you carefully read all the rules!
 
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You are not allowed to discuss or criticise staff actions!
Even in Christian churches a member is allowed to discuss staff actions that need clarification. I am not criticizing the moderators, but rather an attempt to find out their understanding of Tishri's SOP as it applies to an MJ possibly being viewed as not Torah Observant because they don't believe it's possible for a Messianic Jew, let alone an Orthodox Jew, to follow all 613 commandments.

Perhaps, Tishri can give us her understanding as to whether or not a Messianic Jew is suppose to adhere to at least the approximately 271 commandments in order to be considered Torah Observant as implied in the SOP. I received an infraction because I don't believe it's possible to keep all 613 commandments. Would at least appreciate some clarification/discussion from Tishri on this apparent misunderstanding in that she edited the SOP implied content and is most knowledgeable of its purpose with respect to an MJ knowing and following the 271 commandments in order to be considered Torah Observant.

I agree that 271 commandments is certainly within the scope of the SOP, but was not aware that CF moderators considered all 613 to be within the scope of the SOP. This certainly deserves some clarification as apparently some CF Moderators had wrongly assumed I was not Torah Observant according to the SOP.

 
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mishkan

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Your comments here reflect at least two errors when it comes to the "hundreds of laws":

1. In Jewish thought, the 613 commandments are the Torah. They are merely a codification of the regulations specified in the books of Moses. To repudiate the 613 is to repudiate the entire Torah.

2. No single individual is capable of keeping all 613 commandments. They are category-based. Some apply to males, some to females. Some to farmers, and others to merchants. Some commandments are based on tribal affiliation.

This is why it is so important for Christians to actually study the Torah for its face value before attempting to create a theology of how one relates to it.


My previous comment shown *below was apparently misinterpreted by a few moderators and deleted with their mistaken assumption I'm not Torah Observant, thus receiving an infraction.

Isn't it generally agreed by MJs that of the mitzvot 613 commandments not all can be observed since the dispora and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70AD. Certainly they have religious significance, but where does the SOP imply that MJ men are to observe approximately 271 commandments. There may not even be an MJ SOP consensus as to the exact number (77 positive and 194 negative commandments) that should be observed by MJ men ... 613 – 271 observe = 342 cannot be observed

I wasn't aware until a recent infraction that apparently MJ men are required to observe all 613 commandments or they aren't considered Torah Observant by the SOP as apparently understood by CF Moderators. Thus, I received an infraction by Moderators that decided I'm not Torah Observant according to their interpretation of Tishri1's new SOP. This infraction brings into question if Christian Moderators even understand the intent of the SOP with respect to a MJ being Torah Observant.

Shavuot was celebrated in Jerusalem on Monday and in America generally on Wednesday, but by some over two days. As one of three most sacred festivals there hasn't been any mention of the Feast of Weeks in this forum. Yet, I get an infraction from Christian Moderators because I don't believe it's necessary for an MJ to adhere to more than about 271 of the 613 commandments.
 
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WOFFED

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Your comments here reflect at least two errors when it comes to the "hundreds of laws":
1. In Jewish thought, the 613 commandments are the Torah. They are merely a codification of the regulations specified in the books of Moses. To repudiate the 613 is to repudiate the entire Torah.

2. No single individual is capable of keeping all 613 commandments. They are category-based. Some apply to males, some to females. Some to farmers, and others to merchants. Some commandments are based on tribal affiliation.

This is why it is so important for Christians to actually study the Torah for its face value before attempting to create a theology of how one relates to it.
In no way did I *"repudiate" the 613 commandments of the Torah nor does the following present a theology. And yes we agree that the number may vary considerably depending on ones occupation and tribal affiliation … however, Tishri1's new SOP doesn’t apply to Orthodox Jews. How many Messianic Jew’s do you know that take into account their occupation and tribal affiliation as to how many of the 613 commandments they faithfully honor besides the Ten Commandments and appointed feasts.

*Certainly they have religious significance, but where does the SOP imply that MJ men are to observe approximately 271 commandments. There may not even be an MJ SOP consensus as to the exact number (77 positive and 194 negative commandments) that should be observed by MJ men ... 613 – 271 observe = 342 cannot be observed
So, I picked a general consensus number between 200 and 400, which still leaves a difference of 631-400=231. It’s not a theology as all 613 commandments cannot be faithfully observed until a Third Temple with animal sacrifices. Certainly you aren’t suggesting a Messianic Jew has to honor ritual sacrifices at feasts if and when there is a Third Temple. Yeshua as the Lamb of God is our Lord and High Priest who intercedes for us.

Hebrews 4:14-16 (CJB)
14 Therefore, since we have a great cohen gadol who has passed through to the highest heaven, Yeshua, the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we acknowledge as true.
15 For we do not have a cohen gadol unable to empathize with our weaknesses; since in every respect he was tempted just as we are, the only difference being that he did not sin.
16 Therefore, let us confidently approach the throne from which God gives grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace in our time of need.

At one time it was implied that at the very least a MJ had to agree to honor/observe the Ten Commandments and observe/celebrate the seven major appointed times (feasts) in order to consider oneself Torah Observant and thereby a MJ member of this forum. So, it would add clarity to the SOP if Tishri1 would explain that observing the Ten Commandments and the seven major appointed times (feasts) is NOT sufficient for understanding the implied intent of the SOP. In this we find agreement that as you say, "it is so important for Christians to actually study the Torah for its face value before attempting to create a theology of how one relates to it."

Like you I’m also “Advocating for clarity and maturity
in the Messianic Community.”



 
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GuardianShua

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Totally Agree!

My previous comment shown *below was apparently misinterpreted by a few moderators and deleted with their mistaken assumption I'm not Torah Observant, thus receiving an infraction.

Isn't it generally agreed by MJs that of the mitzvot 613 commandments not all can be observed since the dispora and the destruction of the Second Temple in 70AD. Certainly they have religious significance, but where does the SOP imply that MJ men are to observe approximately 271 commandments. There may not even be an MJ SOP consensus as to the exact number (77 positive and 194 negative commandments) that should be observed by MJ men ... 613 – 271 observe = 342 cannot be observed

I wasn't aware until a recent infraction that apparently MJ men are required to observe all 613 commandments or they aren't considered Torah Observant by the SOP as apparently understood by CF Moderators. Thus, I received an infraction by Moderators that decided I'm not Torah Observant according to their interpretation of Tishri1's new SOP. This infraction brings into question if Christian Moderators even understand the intent of the SOP with respect to a MJ being Torah Observant.

Shavuot was celebrated in Jerusalem on Monday and in America generally on Wednesday, but by some over two days. As one of three most sacred festivals there hasn't been any mention of the Feast of Weeks in this forum. Yet, I get an infraction from Christian Moderators because I don't believe it's necessary for an MJ to adhere to more than about 271 of the 613 commandments.




Because there is no temple not all of the commandments can be kept.
 
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Avodat

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Even in Christian churches a member is allowed to discuss staff actions that need clarification. I am not criticizing the moderators, but rather an attempt to find out their understanding of Tishri's SOP as it applies to an MJ possibly being viewed as not Torah Observant because they don't believe it's possible for a Messianic Jew, let alone an Orthodox Jew, to follow all 613 commandments.

Perhaps, Tishri can give us her understanding as to whether or not a Messianic Jew is suppose to adhere to at least the approximately 271 commandments in order to be considered Torah Observant as implied in the SOP. I received an infraction because I don't believe it's possible to keep all 613 commandments. Would at least appreciate some clarification/discussion from Tishri on this apparent misunderstanding in that she edited the SOP implied content and is most knowledgeable of its purpose with respect to an MJ knowing and following the 271 commandments in order to be considered Torah Observant.

I agree that 271 commandments is certainly within the scope of the SOP, but was not aware that CF moderators considered all 613 to be within the scope of the SOP. This certainly deserves some clarification as apparently some CF Moderators had wrongly assumed I was not Torah Observant according to the SOP.

I was repeating the rules to you - no debate or criticism of staff or their actions is allowed. If you want to make ANY comment on staff actions you must go to Customer Services or PM the staff member. I have tried to warn you - but you are still doing it because you are saying that Moderators are wrong - that is a critiscism. Even if you can prove them wrong you may not post about these things - you are not in a Church or a congregation so those conventions do not apply here. I have tried to warn you!

Regarding your questions - this may help:
This is a Torah Observant forum where those in Judaism as well as the Gentiles who are coming to Messiah, and those who already know Him, may come and grow and learn more about a Torah observant life in Messiah. We advocate Torah Observance as part of our walk with Messiah Yeshua, since He is our example and was Torah Observant, along with the disciples. This can be an area of great division with much misunderstanding, so we must realize that we are all at different points in our walk and that the Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) will lead people to The Truth. We realize that not all Messianics have equal levels of Torah observance. The disputes concerning this matter will not be tolerated.
 
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I was repeating the rules to you - no debate or criticism of staff or their actions is allowed. If you want to make ANY comment on staff actions you must go to Customer Services or PM the staff member. I have tried to warn you - but you are still doing it because you are saying that Moderators are wrong - that is a critiscism. Even if you can prove them wrong you may not post about these things - you are not in a Church or a congregation so those conventions do not apply here. I have tried to warn you!

Regarding your questions - this may help:
This is a Torah Observant forum where those in Judaism as well as the Gentiles who are coming to Messiah, and those who already know Him, may come and grow and learn more about a Torah observant life in Messiah. We advocate Torah Observance as part of our walk with Messiah Yeshua, since He is our example and was Torah Observant, along with the disciples. This can be an area of great division with much misunderstanding, so we must realize that we are all at different points in our walk and that the Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) will lead people to The Truth. We realize that not all Messianics have equal levels of Torah observance. The disputes concerning this matter will not be tolerated.
Thanks for your warning. My private emails and posts have served a useful purpose without any additional infractions ... so far.

Hopefully, this misunderstanding is now behind us ... appreciate your thoughtful concern.



 
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