Corporal punishment of children, ok or no?

[Bradskii]

This is a difficult question to answer since there are a number of variables such as age of child...

What has age got to do with it? Except for worrying that thay might strike back.

 

[jayem]

I grew up in the early 50s. When old-fashioned parenting was still common. I don’t remember ever being spanked, but I was most always well-behaved. Though when I wasn’t, I was cautious and clever enough to avoid the consequences. My mother told me a funny story. Since I don’t recall it all, I must have been only 2 years old or so. I apparently did something to really tick off my father. He was planning to give me a spanking. In my bedroom, there was a heating duct at floor level with a loose grate. I knew I was in trouble, so I pried off the grate and crawled into the duct beyond his reach. He knew I was in there, but there was no way he could get at me. My mother said he was mad as hell, but there was nothing he could do. After a while, he apparently calmed down. And when I finally crawled out, he’d forgiven me. So I avoided a spanking. As I said, I was one clever kid.

 

[Bradskii]

He was going to beat you and you were two years old?

 

[bèlla]

Why would you slap a child? And how would you respond if someone struck you in the face? How demeaning!

I’m not a fan of corporal punishment. I think it’s important to demonstrate correction without hitting because they can’t do the same in society without consequences.

I don’t like yelling or name calling either. Hitting doesn’t foster obedience or dutifulness. Both are heart conditions and a reflection of respect.

~bella

 

[Robban]

I grew up in the early 50s. When old-fashioned parenting was still common. I don’t remember ever being spanked, but I was most always well-behaved. Though when I wasn’t, I was cautious and clever enough to avoid the consequences. My mother told me a funny story. Since I don’t recall it all, I must have been only 2 years old or so. I apparently did something to really tick off my father. He was planning to give me a spanking. In my bedroom, there was a heating duct at floor level with a loose grate. I knew I was in trouble, so I pried off the grate and crawled into the duct beyond his reach. He knew I was in there, but there was no way he could get at me. My mother said he was mad as hell, but there was nothing he could do. After a while, he apparently calmed down. And when I finally crawled out, he’d forgiven me. So I avoided a spanking. As I said, I was one clever kid.

Through yours eyes as a small child, he must have looked like a giant.

 

[jayem]

He was going to beat you and you were two years old?

My mom told me he was going to spank me. But honestly, I have no recollection of the incident. And from what I do recall as a child, I wasn’t ever beaten.

 

[keith99]

Some recent research:
Does 'harsh parenting' lead to smaller brains?

MRI images of smaller brain structures in youth who have experienced harsh parenting practices. Credit: Sabrina Suffren

...
Repeatedly getting angry, hitting, shaking or yelling at children is linked with smaller brain structures in adolescence, according to a new study published in Development and Psychology.​

Bolding mine.

Since shaking of yound children is known to cause brain trauma, often bad enough to result in death for infants, including that in a list of things taints the study.

I'm not at all saying I agree with those practices, but I think the laundry list is poor research. Each should have been examined alone to even be decent. Actual good research would have run statistical measures to be see if some of them were likely only secondary correlatiosn. E.g. if parents who do any of the other things were also more likely to shake their young children that shaking could well explain everything. Shaking being a known cause of brain trauma.

 

[MehGuy]

Is it okay to spank/whoop/slap your child?

Big topic because so many were "punished" as a child and grew up happy and healthy with a good moral compass. Then also many have been traumatized by abuse.

Where exactly is the line between consequences and abuse? Some would say any striking of a child is abuse and some say anything that doesn't leave a mark. Some go so far as just keeping out of the hospital. Of course, it even gets worse.

Where does punishment become abuse and is corporal punishment of any kind ok? If so, which and when?

Personally I'd avoid corporal punishment if I ever have children.

As far as it making a kid bad.. I used to think it did.. but now I wonder if it's just genetics. Those parents who are more violent and hit their kids more often.. might also be passing on genetics that make their children act the same. So in that sense.. it might be hard to tell what is nature and what is nurture as far as the consequences of physically punishing your child.

I give pause.. because I imagine this is how parents have been treating their children for thousands of years. Imagine our closest ape ancestors behave in the same manner. So in a way.. I cannot see how our brains didn't evolved to handle it to a certain extent. Still.. despite this.. I'd personally like to see society evolve away from using corporal punishment and find other more communicative means.

As far as me my parents used to hit me with a spoon when I was younger.. but eventually abandoned all corporal punishment together.. because they lost the heart. My mother's side was extremely violent. My grandmother used to punch her children in the face.. she'd even do it in public. According to my mother.. that side of the family has been extremely violent for generations.. not sure why my mother broke the mold. Part of it is I think my grandmother physically/emotionally traumatized her so much.. that my mother was too numb to act the same way with me.

 

[rturner76]

As far as it making a kid bad.. I used to think it did.. but now I wonder if it's just genetics. Those parents who are more violent and hit their kids more often.. might also be passing on genetics that make their children act the same. So in that sense.. it might be hard to tell what is nature and what is nurture as far as the consequences of physically punishing your child.

My feeling is that it is likely some combination of the two (Nature/Nurture). Some kids, you can beat them every day and they will never stop doing the behavior. They just get better at getting away with it. You take that same kid and take away his Xbox and he's back on straight A's in school.

I think you are born with the potential and someone or thing triggers the response that you had the potential for. then again, some kids have a totally vanilla PB&J with the crust cut off life and dismember cats in 4th grade as a complete sociopath

 

[renniks]

Is it okay to spank/whoop/slap your child?

Big topic because so many were "punished" as a child and grew up happy and healthy with a good moral compass. Then also many have been traumatized by abuse.

Where exactly is the line between consequences and abuse? Some would say any striking of a child is abuse and some say anything that doesn't leave a mark. Some go so far as just keeping out of the hospital. Of course, it even gets worse.

Where does punishment become abuse and is corporal punishment of any kind ok? If so, which and when?

Wack on the hiney is finney.

 

[Frank Robert]

Spanking Is Great for Sex
Which is why it’s grotesque for parenting.

Is spanking an appropriate parenting choice? Or is it, for biological, cultural, and historical reasons, a sex act? Before you answer that question, don’t forget—any given child can grow up to disagree.

No one is having this conversation. We need to start.

 

[MehGuy]

Spanking Is Great for Sex
Which is why it’s grotesque for parenting.

As someone into the BDSM lifestyle.. this is a big reason I was initially against spanking. You have to worry about cases like Sabina Spielrein. Although to be fair BDSM cover a lot more than spanking.. and I personally felt violated having to obey my parents at all. I wasn't being difficult for the sake of being difficult, following orders from my parents genuinely grossed me out. Although at some point one has to draw the line somewhere. I don't blame them for this though, they were just being parents and there was no sense of them being creepy on their end.

Although for the next guy..

While I am personally not familiar with the man my sister used to write and troll the Focus On The Family website. She'd also frequently talk about how creepy James Dobson is. She once told me James Dobson said that when he was spanked by his mother he'd get some feel good glow from it afterwards.. and I'm like eh.. that sounds.. uh.. > _ > ... She also showed me an article James Dobson wrote about what a joy it was to discipline a dog. He wrote about the biting and scratching the dog gave him, and the beatings he had to administer to the dog in return.. and the glory it was when the dog finally gave way and submitted to him. All of this having a weird romance novel vibe to it.. My sister pretty much said he was a sadomasochistic pervert who gets off on corporal punishment.

While I'd say the vast majority of parents who do corporal punishment are not like this, this is a real element out there and it needs to be pointed out.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That is beyond scary. Spank to tears and then if the child continues to cry spank them again.

That is the work of a monster. And sadly it is part and parcel of how many of those who think spanking is proper think.

When I was young I seperated a shoulder, no tears. Broke a finger, no tears. But tears were quite possible if I felt ill used or treated. And this monster would hit a child who was like me because they continued to cry after being abused.

Since he also abuses animals per his own words in a link in this thread I rather hope Dante got Hell right and Dobson ends up on the 7th level where the dogs can get their revenge.

Kids often cry fake tears to get out of being whipped.

 

[Bradskii]

Kids often cry fake tears to get out of being whipped.

Whipped? What the..?

 

[Desk trauma]

Whipped? What the..?

Americanism for corporal punishment, it does not necessarily indicate using a foreign object in the beating much less an actual whip.

EDIT: well, that was a waste of effort attempting to say things are less bad than they appear.

 

[High Fidelity]

Teaching children that wrongdoing justifies physical violence is, of course, wrong.

There are plenty of ways to punish wrongdoing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Whipped? What the..?

Yes, whipped. My grandmother would raise welts across the back of my bare legs with an extension cord (that'll make ya dance).

 

[Bradskii]

Americanism for corporal punishment, it does not necessarily indicate using a foreign object in the beating much less an actual whip.

Ah. My apologies. Much like 'whupped' perhaps.

Edit: Except...OWG seemed to actually mean being whipped. With effectively what could be termed a whip. I remain astonished.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Americanism for corporal punishment, it does not necessarily indicate using a foreign object in the beating much less an actual whip.

EDIT: well, that was a waste of effort attempting to say things are less bad than they appear.

Child psychologists used to recommend the use of an instrument of some kind rather than the hand as the hand can do more physical harm. A 'paddle' of some sort makes more sound than pain as it contacts the misbehaving child's bottom.

 

[Desk trauma]

Child psychologists used to recommend the use of an instrument of some kind rather than the hand as the hand can do more physical harm. A 'paddle' of some sort makes more sound than pain as it contacts the misbehaving child's bottom.

Doctors used to recommend bleeding to balance the humors.