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Cornell University - Vaccination not Preventing Infection

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by whatbogsends, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    There are objective standards. It’s not a free for all. There appears to be a lack of any kind of instruction in critical thinking over there.
     
  2. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

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    Because hospitalizations are only a sub-set of infection.

    Which is why we can see from that data the benefits of vaccination with regards to hospitalization. But it doesn't tell us as much about total transmission or spread. Less severe infection is still infection. But less severe imfection likely wouldn't show up in hospitalizations other than those going for other reasons who are screened
     
  3. GreatLakes4Ever

    GreatLakes4Ever Well-Known Member

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    When that article was written and by extension when Fauci said it, the Alpha strand of COVID-19 was most prevalent. With it’s R0 of 3, 70% would be what would be needed to achieve herd immunity. The Delta strand however has now become more prevalent. It has an R0 of 6 so we need to be around 85% to achieve herd immunity.
     
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  4. whatbogsends

    whatbogsends Senior Veteran

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    Then perhaps Rambot should have been more specific when he said:

    Moreover, when Fauci said 70% he was being disingenuous. He admitted in a New York Times that he said lower numbers because he didn't think the public was ready to hear the real numbers.

    Regardless of what Fauci said, we're not going to get herd immunity from the vaccines that only reduce transmission 40-80%. Populations with 95+% vaccination are still significantly spreading the virus. These vaccines aren't preventing the spread of Covid. At best, they're slowing it down somewhat.
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    That is the false doctrine of Enthusiasm. The Spirit does not speak to us except by the external word of God.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  6. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    Fair point.
     
  7. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    No. I was likely just wrong here. It is what I remember; but that was almost a year ago.



    Really? Do you have a source or something for this? Because I gotta say, I REALLY think that was a foolish call on his part.

    Regardless of what Fauci said, we're not going to get herd immunity from the vaccines that only reduce transmission 40-80%. Populations with 95+% vaccination are still significantly spreading the virus. These vaccines aren't preventing the spread of Covid. At best, they're slowing it down somewhat.[/QUOTE]There are populations with a 95%+ vaccination rate???
     
  8. stevil

    stevil Godless and without morals

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    Forums like this are good (in theory) to get input and challenges from multiple people.

    Certainly I see articles and studies provided by many people that I wouldn't have found by my own devices.
    Also there are points and considerations that I wouldn't have come across with just me looking.

    Although, typically you have the For crowd and the Against crowd, and typically people don't change their opinions. We probably leave discussions just thinking that the other side have fallen for propaganda or are partisan to a particular political party or a particular celebrity or a particular conspiracy.

    We probably don't do enough open conversation, not enough inquisitive questioning and listening and probably too much trying to win or convince others.
     
  9. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    Those numbers are in reference to a different strain, for context.
     
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  10. rambot

    rambot Senior Member

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    I also wonder about whether people have a HEALTHY relationship with PEER REVIEWED data that disagrees with their view.

    I think some people just dismiss it or ad hominem it away. That's a poor choice. I kind of wish people would/could wrestle with that information a bit and let it seep into their matrix of knowledge; EVEN if they don't get into a big discussion of it.
     
  11. RestoreTheJoy

    RestoreTheJoy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The person with natural immunity will not transmit it or contract it.
     
  12. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    You could have mentioned that this interview happened before the emergence of the much more contagious delta variant showed up and saved us all a mouse click.
     
  13. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    No, they just have a lower chance of doing so than people not previously infected.
     
  14. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Lol objective standards about what a person is allowed to think?
     
  15. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Well that's your unscriptural belief. It's not mine.
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    That is false. By the way, no one has "natural immunity" to this. One can get "acquired natural immunity". That means that one can catch the disease, recover from it, and then have a higher resistance to it. You may be confused about the terms that you are using. Even so some people that have had it once have come down with it again.
     
  17. Bradskii

    Bradskii Well-Known Member

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    Taking someone's ideas and forming an opinion? System 2. Going with intuition? System 1.

    Intuition doesn't follow from conscious thought. It's automatic. So you can't think about something and therefore each an intuitive decision. It will work the other way around though.
     
  18. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    What do they call this now? Binary thinking? Your formula isn't real life.
     
  19. Bradskii

    Bradskii Well-Known Member

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    Well, it won a Nobel prize:

    'In October, Princeton University psychologist Daniel Kahneman, PhD, was awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his groundbreaking work in applying psychological insights to economic theory, particularly in the areas of judgment and decision-making under uncertainty.

    Kahneman is recognized for the pioneering research and theoretical work he conducted with colleague Amos Tversky, PhD, who died in 1996. While Tversky was acknowledged in the announcement, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences does not award prizes posthumously. "Certainly, we would have gotten this together," said Kahneman on the day of the announcement. "There is that shadow over the joy I feel."

    The team's findings have countered some assumptions of traditional economic theory--that people make rational choices based on their self-interest--by showing that people frequently fail to fully analyze situations where they must make complex judgments. Instead, people often make decisions using rules of thumb rather than rational analysis, and they base those decisions on factors economists traditionally don't consider, such as fairness, past events and aversion to loss.

    His work has inspired a new generation of researchers in economics and finance to enrich economic theory using insights from cognitive psychology into intrinsic human motivation," said the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences' announcement. That's evidenced by the fact Kahneman and Tversky's seminal paper "Prospect theory: an analysis of decision under risk," has the highest citation count of all articles published in Econometrica, arguably the most prestigious economic journal.'
    Psychologist wins Nobel Prize

    You should read his book: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555
     
  20. Pommer

    Pommer Autodidact polymath Supporter

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    Oh, my library had the audiobook!
     
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