Contradictions within the Qur'an

[Beckyy25]

Because they're different numbers of angels, of course!

Interesting assumption.

He has no need to. He's so great that there is simply no reason to have a son (unlike the Christian god, who felt it necessary).

If Allah has no need to have a son then I understand this, but saying He can't have a son because He does not have a wife (assuming that a God who can do anything is saying that!), then this is no reasonalbe answer for me.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

But as i mentioned earlier how can He (Allah Exalted) have children when the child is the offspring of two compatible spouses?

 

[peaceful soul]

The holy books of Islam and Christianity have contradictions and errors in them?! *mock surprise*

Even if you make your own set of beliefs, you will run into the same problem. No religion or belief system is free from these accusations; so, let's not get pompous. The nature of all systems is open to others not understanding and claiming errors, contradictions, etc. I hope that you come to recognize that. The problem boils down to whether the claims are valid or at least hold a good point of contention.

 

[Beckyy25]

Regarding point 4 of yours if you read this explanation and it will make sense. It agrees with what Formy has mentioned before and in more detail.

Islam Question and Answer - Guidance is in the hand of Allaah

If you have any questions, you can ask them here and we can try and answer them insha'Allah. All i ask is that you read this fatwa completely from beginning to end.

Regards

First of all what does the word "fatwa" mean? Can you tell me please?

Secondly, I read everything in the link you gave me. It basically says that man has free will to either choose to do good or evil, to choose God or Satan. And I fully agree with that.

But I don't understand how Allah guides whom He wills or leads astray whom He wills if He has given man free will to choose?

Here are two verses from that link:

“While as for those who accept guidance, He increases their guidance and bestows on them their piety”[Muhammad 47:17]

“Truly, Allaah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever”[al-Zumar 39:3]​

For me these verses are simply saying that man is free to choose. And according to what he has chosen, Allah will either support that person to increase in faith or if that person disbelieves, then Allah leaves him to do whatever he wishes. Did I get it right? Is that what you mean when you are saying "Allah guides whom He wills or leads astray whom He wills?

I also read the following verse:

“Say: ‘O you mankind! Now truth (i.e. the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad), has come to you from your Lord. So whosoever receives guidance, he does so for the good of his own self; and whosoever goes astray, he does so to his own loss; and I am not (set) over you as a Wakeel (disposer of affairs to oblige you for guidance)’”[Yoonus 10:108]

So who is saying he's not a wakeel? Allah or Muhammad?

 

[peaceful soul]

But as i mentioned earlier how can He (Allah Exalted) have children when the child is the offspring of two compatible spouses?

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That depends upon what you mean by "child". Mohammad mistakenly thought that child was related to offspring/genetics when understanding the Christian position of Jesus. God does not have sons and daughters by genetics. That is something of Pagan origins. Now how did he misunderstand this if he was a prophet of God??? Of course, the Christians don't know what they are talking about.

 

[peaceful soul]

Interesting assumption.




If Allah has no need to have a son then I understand this, but saying He can't have a son because He does not have a wife (assuming that a God who can do anything is saying that!), then this is no reasonalbe answer for me.

Agreed!

 

[SlaveOfGod]

First of all what does the word "fatwa" mean? Can you tell me please?

Secondly, I read everything in the link you gave me. It basically says that man has free will to either choose to do good or evil, to choose God or Satan. And I fully agree with that.

But I don't understand how Allah guides whom He wills or leads astray whom He wills if He has given man free will to choose?

Here are two verses from that link:

“While as for those who accept guidance, He increases their guidance and bestows on them their piety”[Muhammad 47:17]

“Truly, Allaah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever”[al-Zumar 39:3]​

For me these verses are simply saying that man is free to choose. And according to what he has chosen, Allah will either support that person to increase in faith or if that person disbelieves, then Allah leaves him to do whatever he wishes. Did I get it right? Is that what you mean when you are saying "Allah guides whom He wills or leads astray whom He wills?

I also read the following verse:

“Say: ‘O you mankind! Now truth (i.e. the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad), has come to you from your Lord. So whosoever receives guidance, he does so for the good of his own self; and whosoever goes astray, he does so to his own loss; and I am not (set) over you as a Wakeel (disposer of affairs to oblige you for guidance)’”[Yoonus 10:108]

So who is saying he's not a wakeel? Allah or Muhammad?

Allah Exalted is telling Muhammed to say 10:108. It begins with the with the word "Say". It means "I am not a guardian over you in order for you to become believers. I am only a warner to you and guidance belongs to Allah, the Exalted"

"Is that what you mean when you are saying "Allah guides whom He wills or leads astray whom He wills" - Yes

Fatwa - maybe translated as religious verdict is best translation

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If Allah has no need to have a son then I understand this, but saying He can't have a son because He does not have a wife (assuming that a God who can do anything is saying that!), then this is no reasonalbe answer for me.

I'm putting that down to language difficulties.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

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That depends upon what you mean by "child". Mohammad mistakenly thought that child was related to offspring/gneetics when understanding the Christian position of Jesus. God does not have sons and daughters by genetics. That is something of Pagan origins. Now how did he misunderstand this if he was a prophet of God??? Of course, the Christians don't know what they are talking about.

If that is what you say, what is your definition of a child?

And Muhammed did not mistake anything because he told us Isa was born without a father therefore negating anything about genetics and also he told us about Adam who was born without father and mother therefore negating the genetics argument.

You call Jesus son of God, what does that make Adam also son of God?

 

[peaceful soul]

If that is what you say, what is your definition of a child?

And Muhammed did not mistake anything because he told us Isa was born without a father therefore negating anything about genetics and also he told us about Adam who was born without father and mother therefore negating the genetics argument.

You call Jesus son of God, what does that make Adam also son of God?

SlaveOfGod, I mentioned the post because it is highly evident that Mohammad misunderstood the Christian perspective o just had no clue at all. That is why some of your ayats accuse Christians of something like God having a son, as if it is hereditary. He got it wrong, and you will only support his claim as you are inclined by your dogma. You are not likely to see beyond that, I believe.

Jesus being Son of God is not the same as son of God. The capitalization of Son is significant.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

SlaveOfGod, I mentioned the post because it is highly evident that Mohammad misunderstood the Christian perspective o just had no clue at all. That is why some of your ayats accuse Christians of something like God having a son, as if it is hereditary. He got it wrong, and you will only support his claim as you are inclined by your dogma. You are not likely to see beyond that, I believe.

Jesus being Son of God is not the same as son of God. The capitalization of Son is significant.

And as I mentioned, Muhammed never said Jesus was genetically from God, he said that he was born without a father by God's command. Just the same with Adam who Allah created with no father or mother. There is nothing about genetics and hereditary here or anything highly evident

What is your definition of a child?

 

[Mahammad]

Jesus (pbuh) is a creation

he grow up because he is creation


he needed food to live and grow up because he is creation and no creator would need a creation to live (food)

he needed sleep because his created body got tired like any other creation

he prayed and worshipped Allah(swt) because he prayed to his creator and how can a God pray to himself

some Christians told me Jesus didn't know that he was the god

how can a god doesn't know that he is the god?

he is a creation

because Allah(swt) doesn't need tp grow up or sleep or food or to worship anyone and he know everything.


He didn&#8217;t have a father but he had a mother

How can a God create his own mother?

And when that God born he doesn&#8217;t know that he is the God.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Even if you make your own set of beliefs, you will run into the same problem. No religion or belief system is free from these accusations; so, let's not get pompous. The nature of all systems is open to others not understanding and claiming errors, contradictions, etc. I hope that you come to recognize that. The problem boils down to whether the claims are valid or at least hold a good point of contention.

Who said anything about pompousness? More about the simple reality that people that believe in biblical(and Qur'an-ic) inerrancy paint themselves into corners they can't get out of.

 

[peaceful soul]

Who said anything about pompousness? More about the simple reality that people that believe in biblical(and Qur'an-ic) inerrancy paint themselves into corners they can't get out of.

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It is somewhat pompous in the sense that you are not immune from the same charges from those who don't believe as you do. The same sort of criticism can be levied against your beliefs. Those who don't believe as you do can find alleged contradictions in your beliefs too. Upon close examination, we may be able to find more fault in your beliefs as an individual believer in something than a collective one as organized religion is. Can you see that?

 

[brinny]

As we are having a thread discussing the contradictions within the Bible, I said why not having a thread discussing the contradictions within the Qur'an?

So for all Muslims out there: please feel free to join the discussion. I look forward to your comments and explanations.

Also all other members are welcome to join the discussion if they have something useful to say.

I will start with posting 5 contradictions, and as soon as they were clarified, I'll go on posting another 5, and so on.

These contradictions are from a link which Montalban posted some days ago in the thread: "the contradictions, what about them". Here is the link: Qur'an contradictions
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1) Have some passages in the Quran been abrogated?

No, the Quran is perfect and can never be abrogated.

2:85 Believe ye in part of the Scripture and disbelieve ye in part? And what is the reward of those who do so save ignominy in the life of the world, and ... the most grievous doom.

6:34 There is none to alter the decisions of Allah.

6:115 Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words.

10:64 There is no changing the Words of Allah.

18:27 And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words.

Yes, some verses have been abrogated.

2:106 Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof.

16:101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.


2) Is it OK to drink alcohol?

Yes

16:67 And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein is indeed a portent for people who have sense.

No

2:219 Strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin.


3) How many angels talked to Mary?

One

19:16-19 And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East, And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God- fearing. He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

More than one

3:42 And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation.

3:45 (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).


4) Who leads disbelievers astray?

Allah

2:6-7 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering.

6:25 We have placed upon their hearts veils, lest they should understand, and in their ears a deafness.

17:97-98 As for him whom He sendeth astray, for them thou wilt find no protecting friends beside Him, and We shall assemble them on the Day of Resurrection on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf; their habitation will be hell; whenever it abateth, We increase the flame for them. That is their reward because they disbelieved Our revelations.

18:57 Lo! on their hearts We have placed coverings so that they understand not, and in their ears a deafness. And though thou call them to the guidance, in that case they can never be led aright.

Iblis

7:16-18 Now, because Thou [Allah] hast sent me [Iblis] astray, verily I shall lurk in ambush for them on Thy Right Path. ... He [Allah] said: Go forth from hence, degraded, banished. As for such of them as follow thee, surely I will fill hell with all of you.

15:39-40 He said: My Lord! Because Thou hast sent me astray, I verily shall adorn the path of error for them in the earth, and shall mislead them every one, Save such of them as are Thy perfectly devoted slaves.

19:83 Seest thou not that We have set the devils on the disbelievers to confound them with confusion?


5) Can Allah do anything?

Yes, Allah can do anything.

35:1 Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.

No, there are some things Allah cannot do.

6:100-101 Yet they ... impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. ... The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child?

I've never read the Qu'aran. THis will be very enlightening. Thank you Becky.

 

[peaceful soul]

And as I mentioned, Muhammed never said Jesus was genetically from God, he said that he was born without a father by God's command. Just the same with Adam who Allah created with no father or mother. There is nothing about genetics and hereditary here or anything highly evident

What is your definition of a child?

The Quran states that Allah has no son. In other ayats, it also says that Allah does not beget, but it means it in a sense of reproduction whereas the Bible doesn't. Would you deny this?

My definition of child will depend upon the context being used when speaking about Jesus or the Bible. I say this because in the Bible, Jesus is a child in human terms as it relates to the fact that He was incarnated and developed as a human naturally does, but His divinity distinguishes Him from being seen as just flesh. He is not a child of God; for He is God. Understand? Jesus has a dual nature. Neither nature mixes but are apparent to those who study the NT in context. That is what He is sometimes referred to as God-man.

 

[brinny]

The Quran states that Allah has no son. In other ayats, it also says that Allah does not beget, but it means it in a sense of reproduction whereas the Bible doesn't. Would you deny this?

My definition of child will depend upon the context being used when speaking about Jesus or the Bible. I say this because in the Bible Jesus is a child in human terms as it relates to the fact that He was incarnated and developed as a human naturally does, but His divinity distinguishes Him from being seen as just flesh. He is not a child of God; for He is God. Understand? Jesus has a dual nature. Neither nature mixes but are apparent to those who study the NT in context. That is what He is sometimes referred to as God-man.

excellent post.

 

[peaceful soul]

Jesus (pbuh) is a creation

he grow up because he is creation


he needed food to live and grow up because he is creation and no creator would need a creation to live (food)

he needed sleep because his created body got tired like any other creation

he prayed and worshipped Allah(swt) because he prayed to his creator and how can a God pray to himself

some Christians told me Jesus didn't know that he was the god

how can a god doesn't know that he is the god?

he is a creation

because Allah(swt) doesn't need tp grow up or sleep or food or to worship anyone and he know everything.


He didn’t have a father but he had a mother

How can a God create his own mother?

And when that God born he doesn’t know that he is the God.

I suppose that you don't understand what incarnation means. It implies preexistence. Incarnated is not the same as being born. You also need to understand that Jesus' birth was the result of supernatural consequences and not by human methods? It was by an act of God only?

Since Allah hates and loves, does that make him human?

 

[Penumbra]

One thing I have not been able to grasp out Islam is whether Muslims believe in predestination or not. Sometimes verses seem to swing one way, and other times, verses swing the other way.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/2/index.htm#6

As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering.

6:25 We have placed upon their hearts veils, lest they should understand, and in their ears a deafness.

Do Muslims here believe in predestination? Does Allah choose ahead of time who he will put on a right path towards paradise, and who he will put on a path towards hell by sealing their hearts and senses?

Or do humans have control over their actions, and have their personal actions determine their fate?

-Lyn

 

[durian]

Salam Becky and Peaceful Soul .

First of all, it's relevant to know for whom the verse (Surah 6:101) was addressed to. The verse is the reply to answer the Arab polytheists who mentioned about God having sons and daughters (look to the verse before it: Surah 6:100). They said, God has literal daughters and sons which the God sarcasmly answered, why they believe God has sons and daughters while they knew God didn't has spouse.

So they asked, God may has sons and daughters whithout having a spouse which is denied by this verse:

[Surah 21:22]
had there been in heaven or on earth any deities other than God, both [those realms] would surely have fallen into ruin! But limitless in His glory is God, enthroned in His awesome almightiness [far] above anything that men may devise by way of definition!

and made clear about God is one:

[Surah 112:1-4]
SAY: "He is the One God:
"God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All That Exists.
"He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
"and there is nothing that could be compared with Him."

God is uncreated. Having son/daughter/wife means God can be created. Created here also to distinguish with other polytheistic religions (Hinduism with their forms of Gods, North Gods, etc). There's an interesting anology about forms of God. A light which beamed through a prism emitts 7 different colours. The 7 different colours is but from one source of light. But Muslims deny this because God is uncreated. 7 colours emitted from one source of light are still regarded as been created. Forms of God also is polytheistic in Muslims definition.

As for Jesus(r.a), there're other verses specifically for the case of Jesus be the Son of God. For example:

[Surah 5:17]
Indeed, the truth deny they who say, "Behold, God is the Christ, son of Mary." Say: "And who could have prevailed with God in any way had it been His will to destroy the Christ, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone who is on earth &#8211; all of them? For God's is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them; He creates what He wills: and God has the power to will anything!"

Or more generally as in:
[Surah 21:26-28]
And [yet,] some say, "The Most Gracious has taken unto Himself a son"! Limitless is He in His glory! Nay, [those whom they regard as God's "offspring" are but His] honoured servants:
they speak not until He has spoken unto them, and [whenever they act,] they act at His behest.
He knows all that lies open before them and all that is hidden from them: hence, they cannot intercede for any but those whom He has [already] graced with His goodly acceptance, since they themselves stand in reverent awe of Him.

Or other Abrahamic's Son of God term which to diminish the term of "choosen people" or any supremacy boasted by them over any race, tribe, nation etc :

[Surah 5:18]
And [both] the Jews and the Christians say, "We are God's children, and His beloved ones." Say: "Why, then, does He cause you to suffer for your sins? Nay, you are but human beings of His creating. He forgives whom He wills, and He causes to suffer whom He wills: for God's is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and with Him is all journeys' end.":

So the term Son of God is never been used even figuratively in Islam in order to bring the clear message, we're His creations and there's no distinction among us but on our faith and taqwa to the God.

Hope this help .