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Contradictions in the Bible?

Discussion in 'For New Christians' started by Abide with me., Feb 25, 2021.

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  1. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is right. No one denies that.

    Luke 17:3-4
    So watch yourselves.
    “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Because the first law of emulation is not one's own notions of emulation, but is obedience to his word written requiring forgiveness of all.
     
  3. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then why do you not obey God's Word?

    Luke 17:3-4
    So watch yourselves.
    “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
     
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    So how would you know whether I obey the above or not?

    And I repeat: post #38--"against you" is not in the more reliable Greek texts, nor the NAS, nor the NIV, nor The Living Bible, nor the Williams New Testament, nor. . .
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  5. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The reliable Greek is manifest in verse 4
    makes it clear that the sin is against the person, and the person sinned against is to forgive if the person repents first...

    Luke 17:3-4 [Disciples’ Literal New Testament (DLNT)]
    3 Take heed to yourselves— If your brother sins, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in the day, and returns to you seven times saying ‘I repent’, forgive him”.
     
  6. Direct Driver

    Direct Driver Well-Known Member

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    I see it this way: Forgive the Lion for eating one of your children. But you are a fool if you continue to let it play with the rest of your children. It is important to see him for what he is.

    I also like to call that "tough love".
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    I stand corrected. . .thanks.

    Still wondering how you know whether I obey Lk 17:3-4 or not. . .
     
  8. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Wow, this all serves as a great reminder of exactly why I teach on forgiveness every single time before we do inner healing and deliverance. The misconceptions out there are remarkable.
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Wow! God sure is lucky to have someone like you working with Him. ;)
     
  10. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your welcome : )

    Because in the context of our discussion, you went against your own first law of emulation. . .

    God said, "sin against you"
    You objected by trying to prove the sin is not against us, but that all sin was against God.

    God said, "They repent first, then you forgive them.
    You objected by saying God wants us to forgive all sins, whether they repent or not.

    Clare73 said:
    Because the first law of emulation is not one's own notions of emulation, but is obedience to his word written requiring forgiveness of all.

    You were calling the "notions of emulation" - in the context of forgiveness and repentance - one's own notions, when in fact it was God's Word.

    That is why - within in the context of this discussion on forgiveness and repentance - I stated

    "Then why do you not obey God's Word?"

    Context is the key to unlocking the truths of God's Word, and is also the key to conversations between persons.

    Blessings
     
  11. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Well that was uncalled for.
     
  12. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Good explanation. . .but it assumes what is to be proven, its meaning in context of the NT.
    Agreed. . .and I don't find God stating a requirement of repentance before I forgive, I find only that if they repent, I cannot refuse forgiveness...
    and they aren't the same thing. You are reading a requirement into the text which is not stated there, going "beyond what is written" (1Co 4:6).
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  13. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your assumption or mine? Because you did say that you stand corrected when confronted by God's Word.
     
  14. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Part of the issue here is the word forgiveness. Many Christians know that there are 4 Greek words for the English word "Love" found in the Bible. Well likewise there are 4 Greek words for forgiveness. Understanding which one is being used in a given scripture, then, is critical. Also, we have to remember that because one is being used in one context that doesn't mean a commandment to follow another kind doesn't still apply.

    Here is a breakdown of the 4 types:
    1. Aphesis G859: In the context of God’s forgiveness relating to “repentance to life
    2. Aphiēmi G863: In the context of God’s forgiveness rather than applying penalty (earthly).
    3. Charizomai G5483: In the context of God’s forgiveness to maintain fellowship with Him.
      3b. Charizomai G5483: In the context of Man’s forgiveness to maintain fellowship with man.
    4. Apoluo G630: In the context of Mans forgiveness of a debt.
    and here is a link to a very detailed explanation that I mostly agree with:
    The Beauty of Forgiveness (Aphesis, Aphiemi, Charizomai, Apoluo,).
     
  15. Bruce Leiter

    Bruce Leiter A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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    Both/and is my answer. The question is what Jesus meant by traating them like the pagans and tax collectors. You assume that it's shunning. How did Jesus treat them? He ate and drank with them, which was heresy to the Pharisees. He also called them and all people to repentance, a message he shared with John the Baptist. Love the sinner, sometimes with tough love because of that person's obvious sins, but hate the sin.
     
  16. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    atpollard said:
    Wow! God sure is lucky to have someone like you working with Him. ;)

    I believe atpollard said that because you made the smug remark as follows:

    topher694 said:
    Wow, this all serves as a great reminder of exactly why I teach on forgiveness every single time before we do inner healing and deliverance. The misconceptions out there are remarkable.

    Your teaching of forgiveness, which you expressed on this board, was also flat wrong, yet you were telling them they were wrong, when in fact they were correct, and you never repented of your wrong:

    royal priest said:
    You don't forgive someone who isn't repenting of the thing to be forgiven.

    Your response:
    You respond further:
    According to God's Word, we forgive someone who first repents.

    Luke 17:3-4 [Disciples’ Literal New Testament]
    3 Take heed to yourselves— If your brother sins, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him.
    4 And if he sins against you seven times in the day, and returns to you seven times saying ‘I repent’, forgive him”.
    • God forgives those who repent.
    • We are to do likewise.

    God does not forgive all people their sins,
    We are to follow God's example.

    Lord Jesus beautiful Parable in Matthew 18:21-35 illustrates this truth so plainly, that a child could understand.

    Matthew 18:21-35 (WEB)
    ...21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
    ...22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
    ...23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
    ...26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
    ...28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
    ...29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
    ...30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
    ...32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
    ...35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

    Blessings
     
  17. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    My remark was not smug, it was sincere. I didn't read beyond that comment. If this entire thread doesn't highlight the need for teaching on forgiveness, regardless of one's take on it I don't know what does. My comments have been totally in line with the rest of the conversation. His comment was directed solely at me and not the topic.
     
  18. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    • Your comment sounded smug to me as well.
    • And your comment was directed at all those who disagreed with your understanding of forgiveness.
    • Yet, your teaching on forgiveness is not according to the clear teaching of our Lord.
    Blessings
     
  19. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    God does not forgive a person who does not come to Him in repentance from, and confession of, their sin. Such a person, dying unrepentant in sin, will find him/herself cast out, eternally separated from God in hell. It is because of this terrible fate resting upon all of sinful humanity, that God made a way through Jesus for us all to be reconciled to Himself. But if a person will not avail themselves of the forgiveness that is in Christ's atoning work through repentance, confession of sin, and trust in Christ as Saviour and Lord, they will find themselves cast into outer darkness forever.

    God's forgiveness is characterized chiefly by a refusal to bring the past into the present, to make past failures, past sins, the lens through which He deals with us now. In this sense, God "forgives and forgets," though He cannot actually forget since His omniscience precludes such a thing.
     
  20. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    As I have stated it was not

    As are yours and everyone else who has been discussing this... why am I treated differently?

    No it is not. You have an incomplete understanding.
     
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