Contradictions between Big B. & Ev. theories with Bible

Revealing Times

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You mean they had to invent something that was unknowable. Sure.
Reality is based on cause and effect. One has to break the rules
to get past what is real.
No, no, no. I think they are 100 percent correct. But the very thing they cite as "Quantum Fluctuations" or better known as the Laws of Nature or a Set of Forces describes the Biblical God to a tee....I will re-post it, maybe you didn't quite catch it.

...So if "Quantum Fluctuations" CreateD the universe, that means they Predate the universe. WOW, do you see it coming ?
Quantum Fluctuations (Set of forces/Laws of nature, is a must)
1) Not Physical ( God is a Spirit )
2) Acts on the Physical ( God acted on the Physical by creating the Universe and Species )
3) Created the Physical from Nothing ( God Created physical from Nothing )
4) Predates the Universe ( God is ETERNAL )

CATCH IT NOW ? Everything they list that describes the "Quantum Fluctuation" Describes the Biblical God. He is a Spirit, He is not Physical, He created the Universe from Nothing, and He has ALWAYS BEEN, Hence He predates the Universe.

What does that sound like to you ? The Biblical God !!
1. God is a Spirit He is not a Physical being ( God is a Spirit and must be worshiped in like manner )
2. God said, In the Beginning ( So the Physical had a beginning )
3. God created all matter from nothing ( God created the Heaven and the Earth )
4. God is Eternal, the bible says so in many places.
 
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Revealing Times

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But I agree with you completely...it's not a literal account.
The point being made is that it that Creation was by God's
hand and not a random event. That's what the story is
intending to convey. Not that a certain order has any
relevance. As weird as fanatics get, still, I don't recall
one saying the order of creation has a lesson hidden in it.

But the Bible is clear that scripture is not that important.

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Jesus is what Matters, but God is the one Telling the Story of Creation, from His View Point, that is why it is so hard for us to comprehend.
 
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Riberra

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No, no, no. I think they are 100 percent correct. But the very thing they cite as "Quantum Fluctuations" or better known as the Laws of Nature or a Set of Forces describes the Biblical God to a tee....I will re-post it, maybe you didn't quite catch it.

...So if "Quantum Fluctuations" CreateD the universe, that means they Predate the universe. WOW, do you see it coming ?
Quantum Fluctuations (Set of forces/Laws of nature, is a must)
1) Not Physical ( God is a Spirit )
2) Acts on the Physical ( God acted on the Physical by creating the Universe and Species )
3) Created the Physical from Nothing ( God Created physical from Nothing )
4) Predates the Universe ( God is ETERNAL )

CATCH IT NOW ? Everything they list that describes the "Quantum Fluctuation" Describes the Biblical God. He is a Spirit, He is not Physical, He created the Universe from Nothing, and He has ALWAYS BEEN, Hence He predates the Universe.

What does that sound like to you ? The Biblical God !!
1. God is a Spirit He is not a Physical being ( God is a Spirit and must be worshiped in like manner )
2. God said, In the Beginning ( So the Physical had a beginning )
3. God created all matter from nothing ( God created the Heaven and the Earth )
4. God is Eternal, the bible says so in many places.
-God is not just a spirit, God is the primarily source of energy by which all things came into existence...

-God used a part of His own energy to create the physical universe ...

-Matter is energy transformed.

-The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe detected the residual energy from the creation by God of our physical universe.

There is something interesting with the account of the creation...that is the mention that God SAW that is was good, -which seem- to imply that God observed the evolution of His own Creation... Genesis 1:1 tell us that the Earth was created by God after the Heaven .
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
 
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Revealing Times

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-God is not just a spirit, God is the primarily source of energy by which all things came into existence...

-God used a part of His own energy to create the physical universe ...

-Matter is energy transformed.
ALL TRUE

-The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe detected the residual energy from the creation by God of our physical universe.

There is something interesting with the account of the creation...that is the mention that God SAW that is was good, -which seem- to imply that God observed the evolution of His own Creation... Genesis 1:1 tell us that the Earth was created by God after the Heaven .
Genesis 1:1 KJV
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
God sees everything, no doubt.

And God created the Universe and the Earth and Sun came 9.2 billion years after the first stars started forming. But His first command, brought them forth, just like God has ceased creation, but Stars are still forming, that is because the command went forth, that was Gods creation point, He commanded it, and it came to pass. If that makes sense.
 
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Radrook

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Hello,

So I've been reading and studying this debate for a while now. I've been reading on the answers in genesis website and watched Ken Ham debate Bill Nye the science guy.

I'd like to expose some of the points Mr. Ham presents against the attempt to reconcile belief in the bible and Christianity with belief in the Big Bang and the Evolution theories. I'd like to know your thoughts and the possible solutions, if there are any. My interest is to discuss this.

Here come the questions:

Did death always exist? Did suffering always exist? Did evil always exist?

Was there a first sin?

Why even believe in bilions and milions of years for creation, why would God need, or use, that?

Did God meant the world to be as it is today?

So my answers to these are, in order:

No. No. No.

Yes.

He didn't.

No.

What do you answer?


About elapsed time, please keep in mind that God is described as perceiving the passage of time much differently than it is perceived on Earth by humans. So what to him might have seemed as an instant might be perceived by us as billions of years. his is similar to the time dilation effect attributed to travelling close to or at the speed of light. those on board the spacecraft would experience Earth millennia much differently. In fact, when returning to Earth they might find that everything they left behind has changed drastically due to maybe thousands of years having elapsed. So time is described as relative in a similar sense with God.

2 Peter 3:8 (NIV)

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
 
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Sapiens

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Bill Nye is not a scientist. Also, the Big Bang does not claim that the Universe "magically appeared out of nothing".

Please help me out. What does it claim?

Ironically enough, it appears to me that in only attempts to explain the way the universe developped, without being able to explain why it started, which is usually how people interpret the Big Bang to be : an explanation to why the universe exist.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Revealing Times said:
... but Stars are still forming, that is because the command went forth, that was Gods creation point, He commanded it, and it came to pass.
God ended 'creation' at the end of 'day six'. However, that does not mean nothing new has come about since then.

I presume all are aware the Fathers of the Faith (after the New Testament period) taught God's end of creating meant the "World" (Universe) was then static and nothing new happened.

What it meant was God set the Universe in motion along with all the laws of the Universe and it keeps operating as He intended. There is a thought that God continues to operate the Universe; and in some sense, that is true. I'm not going to try to parse out all the details.

However, new plants and animals are born, new humans are born, new stars are 'born' (formed in accordance with the laws of star formation).

Revealing Times said:
If that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense to me.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Sapiens said:
Please help me out. What does it claim?
You've asked a whole textbook question. Do you expect a bumper sticker answer?

Do you understand enough about the expansion of the Universe and the mechanical formation of physical objects - stars and non-stars - to understand an explanation?

Sapiens said:
...without being able to explain why it started...
Very obviously you do not understand the purpose of science; otherwise you would not have said such a thing.

Science does not deal with 'why' in the philosophical sense. Science deals only with 'how'.

A skeptic might ask, "Since the Bible explains everything, why doesn't the Bible have a recipe for brownies?" The answer of course is the Bible does NOT explain 'everything', but everything we know of God and how to have a relationship with God. "Brownies' are not a subject covered in the Bible. One should consult a cookbook for "brownies".

The skeptic, if he or she is sufficiently belligerent (or sufficiently weak of mind) might then say "Well, I think it should have a recipe for brownies!" And the discussion is all downhill at that point.

Your continued demand that 'science' answer 'why' things happened, exclusive of the 'how' question is the same. You cannot get there from here. To think you've scored a point is to demonstrate the same as the skeptic who demands a recipe for brownies.

To answer your question
Sapiens said:
What does it claim?
The modern version of Father Georges Lematire's Cosmic Egg theory; based on the expansion of the Universe - which is observable by telescopes and spectral analysis. Since all the bits and pieces (solid object, not molecules and atoms in connection) of the Universe are moving away from each other at a more or less fixed velocity, at one time they were all together. That is the source of all matter and energy in the Universe.

Astronomers and Cosmologists have one or two hypotheses from where this 'egg' (conglomeration) derived, but not enough consensus of thought or data to formulate a formal theory. Most astronomers and cosmologists admit this. Some insist '... but that doesn't mean there's a god!' Most simply admit there is no current demonstrable reason and leave it at that.
 
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