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Continuing to investigate the investigators.

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by LostMarbels, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    upload_2020-9-29_23-37-54.png
    Chairman Graham Releases Information from DNI Ratcliffe on FBI’s Handling of Crossfire Hurricane | United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary

    From Fox News:
    upload_2020-9-29_23-39-32.png
    https://twitter.com/ChadPergram/status/1311015805514113024



    Congressional record September 12th, 2016

    Direct copy/paste excerpts:

    ‘‘A review of FBI Director James Comey’s professional history and relationships shows that the Obama cabinet leader—now under fire for his handling of the investigation of Hillary Clinton—is deeply entrenched in the big-money cronyism culture of Washington, D.C. His personal and professional relationships—all undisclosed as he announced the Bureau would not prosecute Clinton—reinforce bipartisan concerns that he may have politicized the criminal probe. ‘‘These concerns focus on millions of dollars that Comey accepted from a Clinton Foundation defense contractor, Comey’s former membership on a Clinton Foundation corporate partner’s board’’—I had no idea—‘‘and his surprising financial relationship with his brother Peter Comey, who works at the law firm that does the Clinton Foundation taxes.’’ Who knew? Wow. Direct ties here with FBI Director James Comey’s family and the Clinton Foundation.


    ‘‘In 2013, Comey became a board member, a director, and a Financial System Vulnerabilities Committee member of the London bank HSBC Holdings. ‘Mr. Comey’s appointment will be for an initial three-year term which, subject to re-election by shareholders, will expire at the conclusion of the 2016 Annual General Meeting,’ according to HSBC company records.

    ‘‘HSBC Holdings and its various philanthropic branches routinely partner with the Clinton Foundation. For instance, HSBC Holdings has partnered with Deutsche Bank through the Clinton Foundation to ‘retrofit 1,500 to 2,500 housing units, primarily in the low- to moderate-income sector’ in ‘New York City.’’

    ‘‘James Comey was not questioned about his relationship with Peter Comey in his confirmation hearing. DLA Piper is the firm that performed the independent audit of the Clinton Foundation in November during Clinton-World’s first big push to put the email scandal behind them. DLA Piper’s employees taken as a whole represent a major Hillary Clinton 2016 campaign donation bloc and Clinton Foundation donation base. ‘‘DLA Piper ranks number 5 on Hillary Clinton’s all-time career Top Contributors list, just ahead of Goldman Sachs. And here is another thing: Peter Comey has a mortgage on his house that is owned by his brother’’

    Well, fortunately, for Hillary Clinton, the investigation with the Clinton Foundation ties to the FBI director has ended well for her.
     
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  2. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    That would be this Lindsay Graham....



    That sure is one investigator that deserves investigating. He is a hypocritical, immoral liar.
     
  3. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    FBI not the only agency with docs showing issues with Russia probe: Grenell




    Trump-Russia probe docs hidden from Congress a 'straight up crime': Nunes
     
  4. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    It's hard to understand where you are coming from with this kind of thing. Do you actually want to have a skewed and partial understanding of the world? Are you aware that you could quite easily do exactly the same kind of thing for anyone in any kind of position of influence who knows other people in similar positions? It gives me a headache having to explain to a grown man how basic this stuff is.

    Imagine there's some scandal where you live. Somebody's cows start dying. On the one hand, an investigation starts into the actual cause of the deaths. Turns out some local factory has poisoned the water source. At the same time, somebody starts pointing out that there have been disputes over the factory by two parties - lets call them the Smurfs and the Blinis. The Blinis are into local politics, and know all the local politicians and their friends who like what the Blinis are about. The Smurfs are into making money and don't mind breaking a few rules, they know all of the other people in town who like money and every shyster lawyer who can help them get away with anything they like. The Smurfs and the Blinis are connected in their own ways, the Blinis went to universities where other people interested in politics went, they were on the same debate teams, played tennis together, made deals together and so on - they know each other. The Smurfs paid for their educations but took little interest in anything but buying them, they prefer to hang out with the bitter almost-made-its who creep around on the fringes, where people use each other rather than collaborate with each other. That is the Smurf's milieu, they like it in the side streets and dark places and when they come out into the light they lie about who they actually are. All of them, Smurfs and Blinis, make lots of cash through their connections and they all try to remake the world in their own image.

    One day, the Smurfs realise the Blinis are running things and don't like it. The Smurfs stir up all of the people who are looking for a bone to pick, who aren't all that interested in what goes on in the world but do know that things aren't going the way they want, and the Smurfs manage to turn this discontent into influence that gets them some power. They begin employing armies of people who lack scruples to cherry pick info about the Blinis and paint a picture showing their followers 'look at this, don't look at anything else - everything else is fake'. To the Blinis and their followers this is so transparently idiotic that it's hard to believe anyone would take it seriously, but they forget that the Smurfists have no interest in anything beyond their own local interests and so have no context, no wider perspective needed to see what is going on. And, moreover, they don't want to gain any sort of perspective - why should they? At some point in the past they can't quite remember, things were better. It doesn't matter why, they just need someone to blame, and according to the Smurfs its all the Blinis fault.

    As it happens, it turns out the Blinis know someone who knows someone who owns some shares in the factory. To the Smurfists, it's obvious, the Blinis are to blame! It must be them - look - they even once had a dinner with someone who once worked with someone who once played golf with someone who once sent an email to someone who once took part in a charity fundraiser the Blinis also attended - wow, its so obvious - they are the cow killers! Since they would do something so terrible, they must also be involved in the worship of the cow-hating demon Maxatron. It's all just so obvious, clearly anyone who doesn't believe they are Maxatronists is just refusing to see the facts.

    In the meantime, however, the initial investigation into the factory is still going on. It turns out the Blinis had been trying for years to have the place regulated, and were pushing to make them clean up their act or have it shut down. The owner, however, a friend of the same shyster lawyers the Smurfs use, had used every legal ruse and loophole in the book to keep the factory pumping out toxic crap. It's all legal! Regulate it? - people will lose jobs! The Blinis want everyone to lose their jobs! But understanding all of this requires lots of boring reading of all kinds of stuff that the Smurfs say is all fake anyway, so who cares? Now those people who used to have the jobs can put all of their energy into pushing around the 'real troof' about how the Blinis are all worshiping Maxatron and killing cows left, right and centre.

    What happens next?
     
  5. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    I really don't know how to apply your hypothetical to my own argument. Things seem conflated, even misrepresented.

    What happens next is we pushback on those who have accosted us, and rid ourselves of that swamp we brought up some 5 years ago. And I do not want fancy reports. There are at least 4 to 5 federal prosecutors investigating these topics right now. That is what I want... prosecutions.
     
  6. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    What you want is for things and people you don’t like to be got rid of, and someone to tell you why it was a good thing. What you continually demonstrate that you don’t want is any kind of understanding of anything. You don’t even understand the stuff you post. Why the charade? Why not just come out with it and state the facts - you want ‘those people’ to be made to suffer and you have no interest in whether or not there is any reason for it. Already in your head, without even the most basic understanding of why you think it, they are guilty and deserve anything that happens to them.
     
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  7. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    I will explain it is a coup against Trump. You will say it isn't, and we are right back where we are now.

    These people are involved in multiple high level felonies. Some of them are even are involved in sedition and/or treason. They are fighting for their lives with what ever control they still have.
     
  8. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    You know you don't have to go into fantasy land to be a Trump supporter. You should check out Human Events, they have some good writers who don't bother with all of that nonsense, they have a particular view of the world and they write about it in a coherent way. You could use some of that material to make arguments, actual real-world arguments about actual real things.

    Are there people who want to get rid of Trump? Yes
    Are they planning a coup? Don't be silly
    Is there going to be an election? Yes
    Is there a threat of massive voter fraud? No

    The list could go on for the rest of the page. You can very, very easily develop a broader understanding of all of this very, very easily by just reading a lot more and not letting your hormones direct your thinking. Knowing what is actually going on in the world doesn't mean you can't support Trump, Human Events contributors seem to have a sound grasp on reality but just choose to see things in a particular way and are unabashed about it. What's wrong with that? But for a grown man to be indulging in conspiracy fantasies is just straight up embarrassing.
     
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  9. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    My response:


    Carter Page on Steele dossier: There needs to be a reckoning


    Sen Johnson on Hunter Biden report: I think we've caught Biden in a lie


     
  10. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    You could only possibly take any of this seriously if you quite literally never read anything. Allowing yourself, leaving yourself so wide open to be manipulated is - I’m not sure what the right word would be. All you have to do is read around and think a bit, but you’d rather just believe some silly tat on the telly. What do you think? Is that a good life choice?
     
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  11. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    My viewpoint is that your sentiment is misplaced.
     
  12. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

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    Oh my gosh, Comeys brother worked for HSBC, one of the biggest banking groups in the world? And the Clinton campaign used HSBC bank at some point? Oh my, I understand now!! ‘Obama Cabinet Leader’ Comey must be corrupt!!

    All we need now is Glen Beck to turn up with his whiteboard..
     
  13. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    You don’t remember the other thread with Carter Page? I provided you step by step clear information showing you that your fantasy notions about the investigation were entirely unfounded. You couldn’t refute anything I sent you. And yet...you still believe the fantasy is true. Why is that?
     
  14. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    Every post anyone makes in support of the stance I hold is deemed unfounded. Yet the information is posted right there in the post that is refuted. It's just refuted... not unfounded. The evideces and proffs exsist.

    unfounded
    [ˌənˈfoundəd]
    ADJECTIVE
    1. having no foundation or basis in fact.

    HRC and the DNC did in fact pay for, and illegally obtain falsified information against the Trump campaign. They did in fact, lie to FISA courts to garner warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. They did in fact, garner prosecutions off of that information, planted/altered evidence, and withheld exculpatory evidences.

    That is all fact. Known fact. And not even close to the only facts surrounding this topic. Certain individuals find it beholden to themselves (for whatever reason) to discount these facts and deride them into insignificance.

    For whatever reason, said individuals do not want this information discussed. Its certainty is not that it is 'unfounded'. I would agree with 'contested'.
     
  15. Kentonio

    Kentonio Well-Known Member

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    Please explain/provide evidence of what 'illegally obtain' means in this context.
    HRC and the DNC never had any interaction with a FISA court. This is clearly and obviously untrue.
    Please show us which prosecutions you feel to have been achieved using false evidence. Please provide evidence to support this that does not rely on unsupported hearsay or rumour.
    We're happy to discuss all of it. But what you call 'facts' so far appear to be very far from factual. If you can prove what you're claiming however, I'd be happy to reassess that determination.
     
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  16. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    If you do not even understand what 'illegally obtained' means, why would I even bother getting into such a detailed, and intense discussion with you? In my view, all that is intended is such a response, is to get me to define the issue in such a manner that can be argued against. Then what ends up happening, is we argue over that definition of the topic, and never even discuss the topic at hand.

    I've been doing this for too long. It would be much more forthright to state you will never agree with me.
     
  17. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    Aha now we're getting somewhere. This makes it clearer, as I previously showed you step by step it is true that there were issues with the FISA application. Lies and falsifications are the rather immature representation of this fashioned for Fox viewers, if you read any of the things I sent you it is a lot more complicated than that. If you were to spend a year going through any application of this sort for any major investigation you would be able to tease out all kinds of potentially misleading data. What you choose to do however it think with your feelings - with only a few basic scraps of info and a refusal to inform yourself further you convince yourself it must be true, but your position is impossible - you cannot possible understand what any of the things you say or hear on Fox mean without putting the time in to fully inform yourself. What is it that prevents you from doing that? Really, what?

    You must know this from proverbs 18:17 - 'The first to state his case seems right, until the other one comes and cross examines'

    You really don't get this? You know virtually nothing about the things you are referring to, yet a few buzzwords and misleading representations on Fox have you believing that somehow you know what it's all about. What is it that stops you using your head?
     
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  18. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    I haven't seen a single post from you where you even attempt to provide anything like a detailed explanation. You just post links to shoddy, sensationalist and misleading rubbish that picks out a few things to give you a slanted view of whatever it is. Why not have a go at backing up just one of your claims with a step by step argument that includes all of the facts, rather than just another 'person on telly says so' post?
     
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  19. LostMarbels

    LostMarbels All-Lives-Matter

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    Do you realize not a single thing you have posted has anything to do with the topic? You seem to want to discuss me for some reason. I am not the topic.

    This is the disconnect in my reasoning. People seem content to point out some flaw in me, personally, as reasoning as to how their subjective view of me, discredits what I have posted. That's not a debate. More aptly, that would be an emotionally driven rant.
     
  20. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    You are posting things other people said on TV and claiming they are true. Naturally, people take issue with that. You could respond by providing a clear, step by step explanation of why you believe these things to be true, including enough relevant information to present a balanced and clear picture. Instead, any time your insistence that the thing somebody said on telly is true is challenged, you post more links to people saying stuff on telly. Do you see the problem? I want to know why you believe this stuff, but instead of responding with an explanation you jsut continually post some stuff someone said on the TV. That’s not about you, it’s about the argument you refuse to engage in to defend your truth claims.
     
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