Conspiracy theories in the Bible

[timothyu]

So Satan operates under some restraining conditions.

The satan is only one of many on the council of Heaven under the throne of God.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

And it was Jesus himself who specified "perish" as "going to hell".

That a fact? So it's not actually good news, Jesus just raised the stakes for the doomed. Sure you're reading it right there Helmut?

You didn't mention a vid, and the research I did was enough to convince me the hoax is what you say. But if you have any evidence to the contrary, show it.

I mentioned a vid that I could no longer locate, which I found persuasive. That's all.

Did I say anything like that? The examples we discussed were doppelgängers living thousands of miles away, not the same street, and the names did not match exactly.

Sure, and I say you're on a hiding to nothing with the coincidental doppelganger theory Helmut. Especially when combined with the 'identical twin times 2'. This is God's world, coincidences are pretty rare, especially the astronomically unlikely variety.

So we agree that the Scobee doppelgäner is not the astronaut Scobee.

Er, no. I'd like you to admit that it's possible, even plausible, based on even that evidence, that something may be afoot.

A person named Galactic (you didn't give a personal name), and the personal name of his (her?) father is Trump? Who should that be? And what does this have to do with Gagarin?

Is that why Trump decided to fund Space Force over Nasa, he was secretly opening the door to Roscosmos?

Nonsense. Germany has been occupied from 1945 to 1955 (the latter day may be disputed, since there were several steps that can be connected to "reducing/ending" the occupation, the first in 1949 (founding FRG and GDR), others in 1952, 1955, 1968, and the last step was the peace treaty in 1990/91.

You want to tell me that the purpose of NATO, founded in 1949, was the occupation of Germany by USA, UK, France and USSR in 1945? Can't you see this is sheer nonsense?

Of course. German unity is a big threat to the powers that be.

I can't see any diligence. Much of what is presented by evidence or a CT points into the opposite direction when inspected with diligence. I already mentioned the absence of stars in photographs from the moon, which is exactly what is to be expected. The claim that the late deal on the insurance of the WTC shows that Silverstein knew about the coming event overlooks the fact that the late date was because of a longer negotiation on the insurance sum - and because Silverstein got a lower sum (and lower rates) than the insurance demanded at first, the damage done by 9/11 was higher than this sum (only by a juridical trick the lawyers of Silverstein could double it), so the story proves the very reverse. And as to your ISS story: The person who created that hoax did not even check whether the two persons with the same surname were siblings ...

You've got it covered there Helmut, between the unholy trinity of Lucky "Just Pull it" Larry and his mother of all Jewish stocktakes, the Stanley "My G-d it's full of stars" Kubrick's homeless tweaker's shelter on the moon, and the astronots whose careers took off and landed plum jobs in plain sight.

Hats off to you Helmut.

 

[helmut]

But there will soon come a day when it can be said that the One who restrains Satan will be removed.

The question is: Who is this one who will be removed.

There are various explanations to that. And since we have seen a bunch of deception by lying Trump, and many (even Christians) who believed it, we can now understand the warning

And to "deceive if possible even the very elect"

better than before.

 

[helmut]

That a fact? So it's not actually good news, Jesus just raised the stakes for the doomed.

Well, to be precise: He only confirmed the "stake" that was "raised" before He came.

Sure you're reading it right there Helmut?

Read by yourself:
Mt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Mk 9:47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Sure, and I say you're on a hiding to nothing with the coincidental doppelganger theory Helmut.

Given the billions humans on earth, it is simple statistics that such doppelgängers should be quite frequent.

Especially when combined with the 'identical twin times 2'.

There are no identical twins, bur simply siblings that are rather similar. Why do you always distort what I say and make it implausible, instead of arguing against what I said? This tactic shows you are not honest.

Er, no. I'd like you to admit that it's possible, even plausible, based on even that evidence, that something may be afoot.

Evidence? Two siblings (you try to ridicule them by talking about identical twins), 4 coincidental doppelgängers and one person where no matching could be found - that's evidence that the picture you showed is a hoax or disinformation.

Is that why Trump decided to fund Space Force over Nasa, he was secretly opening the door to Roscosmos?

What has that to do with what I wrote? I tried to react as serious as possible to the nonsense of Mr. (Mrs.?) * Trumpovitch Galactic ... (The "*" stands for the first name you did not tell).

Of course. German unity is a big threat to the powers that be.

Do you believe in time travel? Or how could the founding of NATO in 1949 make possible the occupation of Germany in 1945?

NATO was founded as a pact against the USSR. When West-Germany joined, this was a (minor) step to full sovereignty (the official end of the occupation in 1952, aimed to prepare the founding of the EDC, was a bigger step).

between the unholy trinity of Lucky "Just Pull it" Larry.

"Pull" has a wide range of meaning, I don't try to cover them all. But two are important for this discussion:

1. "Pull a building": Use ropes to shake the building until it collapses. WTC 6 was pulled that way, because it was damaged by 9-11 beyond repair.
2. Move a (e.g. military) unit from its position.

As t o "1.": Do not confuse with "pull don", which has a broader meaning, but Silverstein did not say "pull it down", but "pull it". So you can decide whether he meant "draw ropes about the building and pull them rhythmically until it collapses" or "order the firefighter unit to leave the building [since it will probably collapse]".

This distortion of the "pull it" saying (and its context) is one of the many lies told about 9-11 by self-proclaimed "truthers".

Unlike you, I checked the evidence by listening to both sides.

EDIT: added brackets "[..]" around implied statement not uttered by Silverstein, typos corrected.

 

[helmut]

The satan is only one of many on the council of Heaven under the throne of God.

This is Job. But there are more verses in the Bible about that creature.

According to Rev 12, Satan has no longer access to heaven, he lost his case.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Well, to be precise: He only confirmed the "stake" that was "raised" before He came.

Love me or be grilled like a beef steak for eternity, eh? I hate to hear what you consider bad tidings Helmut.

Read by yourself:
Mt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Mk 9:47 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where “ ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Jesus is talking to believers there. So are you typing with one hand and reading with one eye now Helmut? Are you familiar with prophetic rhetoric? Jesus is warning us to take extreme measures to avoid painful correction later on. How many times have you said 'Raca!' (perhaps the Prussic equivalent) in your heart towards a brother? Doomed, Helmut, doomed!

Given the billions humans on earth, it is simple statistics that such doppelgängers should be quite frequent.

Do you have a doppelganger titer calculator? We are not automatic men, Helmut. Every snowflake is different.

There are no identical twins, bur simply siblings that are rather similar. Why do you always distort what I say and make it implausible, instead of arguing against what I said? This tactic shows you are not honest.

Evidence? Two siblings (you try to ridicule them by talking about identical twins), 4 coincidental doppelgängers and one person where no matching could be found - that's evidence that the picture you showed is a hoax or disinformation.

Simmer down Helmut. It's the astronots who are claiming to be identical twins, at least 2 of them - the asian and the black guy, I think. Now what are the chances of that?

What has that to do with what I wrote? I tried to react as serious as possible to the nonsense of Mr. (Mrs.?) * Trumpovitch Galactic ... (The "*" stands for the first name you did not tell).

Sorry, I'm trying to keep a straight face over your claim that Trump is a Russian spy. Horrified, I'm horrified Helmut...

Do you believe in time travel? Or how could the founding of NATO in 1949 make possible the occupation of Germany in 1945?

NATO was founded as a pact against the USSR. When West-Germany joined, this was a (minor) step to full sovereignty (the official end of the occupation in 1952, aimed to prepare the founding of the EDC, was a bigger step).

Germany - full sovereignty! Hahahahaha.

"Pull" has a wide range of meaning, I don't try to cover them all. But two are important for this discussion:

1. "Pull a building": Use ropes to shake the building until it collapses. WTC 6 was pulled that way, because it was damaged by 9-11 beyond repair.
2. Move a (e.g. military) unit from its position.

As t o "1.": Do not confuse with "pull don", which has a broader meaning, but Silverstein did not say "pull it down", but "pull it". So you can decide whether he meant "draw ropes about the building and pull them rhythmically until it collapses" or "order the firefighter unit to leave the building [since it will probably collapse]".

This distortion of the "pull it" saying (and its context) is one of the many lies told about 9-11 by self-proclaimed "truthers".

Unlike you, I checked the evidence by listening to both sides.

Maybe he was talking to his 'girl friday' secretary? I'm enjoying this Helmut, you're giving me a good laugh, thank you.

 

[helmut]

Love me or be grilled like a beef steak for eternity, eh?

Fire is a picture to illustrate the reality, there are other pictures like
Mt 22:13 Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Darkness and gnashing of teeth are no attributes of fire.

So what is the reality behind these pictures? We know that one day God will be all in all (1Co 15:28. So everybody will experience the presence of God, who is a consuming fire (Hbr 12:29). What if you can't stand the presence of God, because you did not live with him?

I hate to hear what you consider bad tidings Helmut.

Bad tidings for Satan: There is no way of salvation for him, he is damned and will be punished to the ages of ages.

Are you familiar with prophetic rhetoric?

I am, and therefore I still have two hands and eyes. But do you think all the talk about hell and eternal damnation by Jesus is just rhethoric?

How many times have you said 'Raca!' (perhaps the Prussic equivalent)

The Prussic language is extinct for more than four centuries, I do not even know a related language (e.g.Lithuanian).

Doomed, Helmut, doomed!

I think there are better examples why I would be doomed, if I were not saved by the grace of God.

Do you have a doppelganger titer calculator? We are not automatic men, Helmut. Every snowflake is different.

Yes, but if you search diligent, you will find two flakes that are rather similar, so unless you take a very close look on them you will take them as identical.

I have been confused with my brother-in-law - despite all arguments from my sister that her bridegroom and me were totally different, everybody else confirmed we looked alike. Especially on photos.

It's the astronots who are claiming to be identical twins

Can you show me where they claim such?

Sorry, I'm trying to keep a straight face over your claim that Trump is a Russian spy.

Again you're twisting my words. Let me quote myself:

There are enough hints to Trump being a soviet (later Russian) "influencer agent", probably hired in 1978

Do you know the difference between an influencer and a spy?

Some renegade from the KGB gave a handbook to western agencies, and there is a passage about the ideal candidate for a person who can be used as an influencer agent.

• inappropriate self-esteem
• the wish to climb the social ladder at any cost
• disdain of people with lower status
• over-assessment of one*s wealth
• desire for success and respect
• ready to take revenge on persons or a system deprives him the opportunity to satisfy his needs

So why should the KGB miss the possibility of using Trump, when he visited Moscow in 1978? Why took Trump so much money from Russian oligarchs for his new Trump towers? Why did he say openly that he believed Putin more than the US secret agencies? And so on ... all this is sheer coincidence?

Germany - full sovereignty! Hahahahaha.

If you mean that we have no "full sovereignty" because we are no rogue state but comply to international law, you are right. But there is no government that can dictate decisions to our government. Trump tried, and then complained that Germany did not pay as much as he wanted.

Maybe he was talking to his 'girl friday' secretary?

No, he was talking to the firefighters, to the person that pulled the unit out of WTC7.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Fire is a picture to illustrate the reality, there are other pictures like
Mt 22:13 Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Darkness and gnashing of teeth are no attributes of fire.

So what is the reality behind these pictures? We know that one day God will be all in all (1Co 15:28. So everybody will experience the presence of God, who is a consuming fire (Hbr 12:29). What if you can't stand the presence of God, because you did not live with him?

Yes, the eternal fire is God's presence, it is the burning fire of passionate fatherly love. Who can stand in His holy presence? If just one coal from the brazier is enough to cleanse the prophet's sinful lips, how much more a full immersion baptism in the lake of fire and sulfur, the refiner's fire purifying the dross from those sick with sin. For all will be salted with fire, and salt is good. Just look to Christ, our brazen serpent raised up, who overcame all the fire of vitriol the world could throw at him - 'Forgive them Father'.

Behold, sayeth the Lord, I am making all things new!

Capisce?

Bad tidings for Satan: There is no way of salvation for him, he is damned and will be punished to the ages of ages.

Bad tidings for everyone, the way you seem to be framing it, Helmut. Do you say the Bible teaches that a believer will be tormented forever without hope simply for having lustful thoughts?

Gehenna, Helmut, not the pharisee's cartoon fantasy medieval dungeon.

I think there are better examples why I would be doomed, if I were not saved by the grace of God.

Once saved always saved, Helmut?

Can you show me where they claim such?

Fact 06: Challenger crash FAKE of 1986 - NASA and their fake "deads"

Reportedly...knock yourself out. Herrs McNair and Onizuka.

And note the probability calculation at the bottom of the page.

Again you're twisting my words. Let me quote myself:
Do you know the difference between an influencer and a spy?

Some renegade from the KGB gave a handbook to western agencies, and there is a passage about the ideal candidate for a person who can be used as an influencer agent.

• inappropriate self-esteem
• the wish to climb the social ladder at any cost
• disdain of people with lower status
• over-assessment of one*s wealth
• desire for success and respect
• ready to take revenge on persons or a system deprives him the opportunity to satisfy his needs

So why should the KGB miss the possibility of using Trump, when he visited Moscow in 1978? Why took Trump so much money from Russian oligarchs for his new Trump towers? Why did he say openly that he believed Putin more than the US secret agencies? And so on ... all this is sheer coincidence?

So that's your case, Helmut? Trump is a shameless self-promoter who 'fits the KGB profile' and allegedly 'Russian oligarchs' invested in Trump Towers (if so, presumably amongst many other investors)? Aren't the oligarchs mainly Jews? Is that why he's married his no.1 heiress off to Kushner?

If you mean that we have no "full sovereignty" because we are no rogue state but comply to international law, you are right. But there is no government that can dictate decisions to our government. Trump tried, and then complained that Germany did not pay as much as he wanted.

No I mean for starters NATO prevented Germany from building any real military strength. And who controls the big German industries?

No, he was talking to the firefighters, to the person that pulled the unit out of WTC7.

It's Lucky Larry the Fire Chief!...lol keep them coming Helmut, this is priceless!

 

[helmut]

Capisce?

I understand what you say, but I think you're wrong.

Bad tidings for everyone, the way you seem to be framing it, Helmut. Do you say the Bible teaches that a believer will be tormented forever without hope simply for having lustful thoughts?

So what does the Bible say?
Gen 9:21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[1] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Jam 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
This is not the good tiding, but it is the foil, the background for the good tiding that God has created a way of salvation for us.

Gehenna, Helmut, not the pharisee's cartoon fantasy medieval dungeon.

There were no Pharisees in the medieval times, after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the surviving Jews had to re-invent Judaism, for the temple was lost. Sadducees (who had lost the central point of their doctrines) and Pharisees worked together, so modern Judaism is a mix of both of them.

In Jesus' times, Sadducees and Pharisees were opponents: Sadducees had the majority in the council (synhedrion, hence late Hebrew Sanhedrin), Pharisees had the majority in the people's sympathy (though this was challenged when Jesus appeared). Don't be deceived by the tendency of Mathew to lump then together, Luke shows the differences between them. The Sadduees (like the Samaritans) only accepted the Torah, the Pharisees the whole OT. When Jesus was on trial, the Sadducees were the driving force, Pharisees like Nikodemus opposed it. In Acts we have an example of what Josephus tells in a more general way: sometimes the Pharisees could persuade the Saddceeic majority, because they had the people with them. See also lateer when the Pharisees joined with Paul against the Sadducees.
And what did Jesus say about the Sadducees;
Mt 23:2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Do not despise what Jesus said, nor do ignore the admonition by Paul that we should not despise the tree we are branched into.

The medievial embellishment of the Gehenna context is, of course, not important for us, but Gehenne as subterran place of tormention for sinners what common stock which Jesus used, when he said "Gehenna". Don't be fooled by Jehiova's witness: Thoug the word etymologically stems from "Hinnom vale", he valley of Hinnom is never translated as "Gehenna" in the Greek LXX. Gehenna and valley of Hinnom are two distinct things.

Once saved always saved, Helmut?

For those who fear the Bible says: You are saved before the foundation of the world, and no-one can take you out of the hand of Jesus, for those who don't esteem the price of their salvation the Bible says: Be careful, lest you will be ut of and burnt.

Fact 06: Challenger crash FAKE of 1986 - NASA and their fake "deads"

A video I have no right to view. So I only have claims that the siblings said they were twins.

And note the probability calculation at the bottom of the page.

There is no calculation, but only a result, without telling how it was "calculated".

There are so many people, that if you select a random person, the probabilty of finding a person that looks similar and matches the name more or less is above 50%. Let's take the loper limit: finding 6 matches is 1:64.

So that's your case, Helmut? Trump is a shameless self-promoter who 'fits the KGB profile' and allegedly 'Russian oligarchs' invested in Trump Towers (if so, presumably amongst many other investors)? Aren't the oligarchs mainly Jews? Is that why he's married his no.1 heiress off to Kushner?

Jews were banned out of most of Russia before 1918, Russian oligarchs are no Jews (you may find an exception, after hearing about Jews who are Muslims I'm sure you can find exceptions to everything), the majority of Russians oligarchs is probably antisemitic.

You said no syllable to the evident pro-Russian actions of Trump.

No I mean for starters NATO prevented Germany from building any real military strength. And who controls the big German industries?

LOL, we Germans ourselves did not want to be a military power. There always was a string pacifistic movement which always complained that too much moneys was wasted in the industrial-military complex.

In can explain the reasons. First, understand that sometimes, when direct negotiations are a no-go, more or less informal public announcement can be used to communicate with the enemy. And then putt the puzzle together:

• NATO always insisted it was made for defense, not aggression. The Red Army boasted it would beat the enemy on its own territory - you have to invade the enemy's territory to do that. And once a US general could not hold this tongue and said to defend from a Soviet attack, the NATO had to recede temporartely east of Rhine river - this shocked the German government, and was repudiated instntly.
• The Warsaw pact declared it would not start an atomic war, but only retail a nuclear attak by nuclear weapons - the NATO said that, given the conventional superiority of the USSR it might be necessary to defend against a conventional attack by nuclear means.
• NATO analysts predicted the 1980s were a situation which confronted the USSR with difficulties that may let Moscow start a war - the Warsaw pact replied the NATO planned to attack them in about 1985.

East and West agreed: there will be probably a war in the 1980s, in which the Red army occupied West Germany, then drawn back by atomic bombs (that would explode in our country). The only point both sides disagreed was: Who would start that war. But there was even a sort of "compromise" in sight: Maybe the war would develop step by step out of another crises, e.g. disorder in Yugoslavia after the death of Tito (is it coincidence that the tensions in Yugoslavia exploded into war only after the fall of the USSR)?

It is difficult to arm against the will of the people ...

It's Lucky Larry the Fire Chief!...lol keep them coming Helmut, this is priceless!

You know you twisted my words instead giving a serious argument.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I understand what you say, but I think you're wrong.

Suit yourself Helmut. I believe Jesus is the saviour of the whole world.

So what does the Bible say?
Gen 9:21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[1] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Jam 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
This is not the good tiding, but it is the foil, the background for the good tiding that God has created a way of salvation for us.

Interesting choice of scripture there. All good, the way to reconcile the 'hell texts' with the 'salvation texts' is that the former refer to corrective punishment, restorative justice. That's what righteousness is - setting right, not getting even. God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. But the old man must die so the new can come forth in Christ, and look back with contempt at the wormy carcass of the old man.

There were no Pharisees in the medieval times, after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the surviving Jews had to re-invent Judaism, for the temple was lost. Sadducees (who had lost the central point of their doctrines) and Pharisees worked together, so modern Judaism is a mix of both of them.

In Jesus' times, Sadducees and Pharisees were opponents: Sadducees had the majority in the council (synhedrion, hence late Hebrew Sanhedrin), Pharisees had the majority in the people's sympathy (though this was challenged when Jesus appeared). Don't be deceived by the tendency of Mathew to lump then together, Luke shows the differences between them. The Sadduees (like the Samaritans) only accepted the Torah, the Pharisees the whole OT. When Jesus was on trial, the Sadducees were the driving force, Pharisees like Nikodemus opposed it. In Acts we have an example of what Josephus tells in a more general way: sometimes the Pharisees could persuade the Saddceeic majority, because they had the people with them. See also lateer when the Pharisees joined with Paul against the Sadducees.
And what did Jesus say about the Sadducees;
Mt 23:2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Do not despise what Jesus said, nor do ignore the admonition by Paul that we should not despise the tree we are branched into.

Modern-day Pharisees don't walk around handing out business cards with 'Pharisee Inc' written on them, Helmut. Phariseeism is religious hypocrisy, holier-than-thou attitude, stubborn prideful literalistic, always telling ppl they'll go to hell but the greedy rotten self-deceived Pharisee considers himself beyond reproach. Jesus gives them combination in Matt 23, including:

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mt 23:15)

So our Lord is against threatening ppl with hell if they don't play ball.

For those who fear the Bible says: You are saved before the foundation of the world, and no-one can take you out of the hand of Jesus, for those who don't esteem the price of their salvation the Bible says: Be careful, lest you will be ut of and burnt.

Are you living on a razor's edge there Helmut? I'm a simple man, when God says He wants all saved and sends Jesus to save the world, I accept it. Some will be saved, though as through fire, will fail to settle with the adversary on the road and be thrown in jail not to get out until the last penny is paid, and so on. But all get straightened out ultimately. Otherwise God loses, Jesus loses, the faith is worthless, what's the point - personal afterlife fire insurance?

A video I have no right to view. So I only have claims that the siblings said they were twins.

Read the text Helmut. I bet you haven't seen the books of those oligarchs either, or have sworn testimony from their accountant. My oh my.

There is no calculation, but only a result, without telling how it was "calculated".

There are so many people, that if you select a random person, the probabilty of finding a person that looks similar and matches the name more or less is above 50%. Let's take the loper limit: finding 6 matches is 1:64.

Are you saying there's a better than even chance that I'll meet my doppelganger who shares my name?! Bit ambitious there, mein freund?

Jews were banned out of most of Russia before 1918, Russian oligarchs are no Jews (you may find an exception, after hearing about Jews who are Muslims I'm sure you can find exceptions to everything), the majority of Russians oligarchs is probably antisemitic.

No, Jews were given grace by Alexander I back in the late 19th century. They returned to slaughter his family by way of Bolshevism, and maintained control of USSR behind the scenes throughout Stalin's era and so on. They were, let's say, over-represented in the soviet communist party. If any oligarchs were not Jewish, you can be sure it's just as a front.

You said no syllable to the evident pro-Russian actions of Trump.

I haven't seen him wrestling bears, quaffing vodka or mentioning Rasputin, but I'll keep my eye out for it. He is a little chummy with Putin though, hmm.

LOL, we Germans ourselves did not want to be a military power. There always was a string pacifistic movement which always complained that too much moneys was wasted in the industrial-military complex.

In can explain the reasons. First, understand that sometimes, when direct negotiations are a no-go, more or less informal public announcement can be used to communicate with the enemy. And then putt the puzzle together:

• NATO always insisted it was made for defense, not aggression. The Red Army boasted it would beat the enemy on its own territory - you have to invade the enemy's territory to do that. And once a US general could not hold this tongue and said to defend from a Soviet attack, the NATO had to recede temporartely east of Rhine river - this shocked the German government, and was repudiated instntly.
• The Warsaw pact declared it would not start an atomic war, but only retail a nuclear attak by nuclear weapons - the NATO said that, given the conventional superiority of the USSR it might be necessary to defend against a conventional attack by nuclear means.
• NATO analysts predicted the 1980s were a situation which confronted the USSR with difficulties that may let Moscow start a war - the Warsaw pact replied the NATO planned to attack them in about 1985.

East and West agreed: there will be probably a war in the 1980s, in which the Red army occupied West Germany, then drawn back by atomic bombs (that would explode in our country). The only point both sides disagreed was: Who would start that war. But there was even a sort of "compromise" in sight: Maybe the war would develop step by step out of another crises, e.g. disorder in Yugoslavia after the death of Tito (is it coincidence that the tensions in Yugoslavia exploded into war only after the fall of the USSR)?

It is difficult to arm against the will of the people ...

Gee, they've done a number on you, Helmut. Have you considered that you sir may be a product of the indoctrination into the east/ west dichotomy and the docility training for the German people since the war? They got away with it Helmut! Still, Jesus will sort them out.

You know you twisted my words instead giving a serious argument.

Were you not saying that Larry ordered the firefighters out of there? He told the head fireman to 'pull it' meaning 'them' out of there?

If that's so, then he must outrank the local fire chief. District Commander Silverstein, eh?

 

[helmut]

I believe Jesus is the saviour of the whole world.

So do I.

Interesting choice of scripture there. All good, the way to reconcile the 'hell texts' with the 'salvation texts' is that the former refer to corrective punishment, restorative justice.

There is no hint in the bible that the punishment without end (Mk 9:48!) is "corretive" or "restaurative".

That's what righteousness is - setting right, not getting even.

You seem to argue from English and not by Greek.

God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

Of course not.

Modern-day Pharisees

Don't know why you give such a description. Maybe this shows your prejudices against me?

So our Lord is against threatening ppl with hell if they don't play ball.

He threatens people who are opponents of God, including folks you call "modern-day Pharisees".

I'm a simple man, when God says He wants all saved and sends Jesus to save the world, I accept it.

When I read that God wanted to gather the "children" of Jerusalem. I accept it. And when it is said it did not happen because they didn't want it, I accept that too.

Some will be saved, though as through fire, will fail to settle with the adversary on the road and be thrown in jail not to get out until the last penny is paid, and so on.

You seem to misunderstand the last picture. When a person was thrown into prison because he did not pay his debts, he stayed there until he payed. Just being in prison was no payment, so if he did not get some money to pay, he would stay forever and die in prison.

How can anyone pay back what he owes to God? Doing God's will is no payment, for this is the standard. And how can one pay anything to God while being in hell?

But all get straightened out ultimately. Otherwise God loses, Jesus loses, the faith is worthless, what's the point - personal afterlife fire insurance?

Explain me how you can label it "lose" when God wins over Satan and all his followers, who are at the place where they belong.

Read the text Helmut.

And how do I know the text tells the truth?

I bet you haven't seen the books of those oligarchs either, or have sworn testimony from their accountant.

Trumps „Geldspur“: War die Deutsche Bank in die Russland-Affäre verstrickt?

Are you saying there's a better than even chance that I'll meet my doppelganger who shares my name?!

If you meet every person ion North America, this might be the case. But how great is the chance you meet all these people.

No, Jews were given grace by Alexander I back in the late 19th century.

OK ...

They returned to slaughter his family by way of Bolshevism

Neither Lenin (the inventor of the term bolshevism") nor Stalin was a Jew. There were Jews among the bolsheviks, but the majority of the bolsheviks were no Jews, and the overwhelming majority of the Jews were no bolsheviks.

and maintained control of USSR behind the scenes throughout Stalin's era and so on.

...including the anti-Jewish campaign in the laze 1940s?

They were, let's say, over-represented in the soviet communist party.

Because Jews were an oppressed minority, they had more motives to act against the government. Therefore they were over-represented. That's all. There was no Jewish conspiracy.

I haven't seen him wrestling bears, quaffing vodka or mentioning Rasputin

Oh, I was stupid. I thought that giving US allies to friends of Russia (as Trump did to the Kurds in Syria) was an pro-Russian act. But you enlightened me. Wrestling with bears is far more better in line with Russian interests. //irony off

Have you considered that you sir may be a product of the indoctrination into the east/ west dichotomy

That "dichotomy" existed from 1946 (when Truman understood that the warnings of Churchill against Stalin were true) to the late 1980 (when Gorbachev tried to end the cold war, and in the end even destroyed the USSR). Ever tried to drive from West Germany to West Berlin? Or spoken to people who lived in the former GDR after the fall of the wall?

and the docility training for the German people since the war?

Do you mean the "reeducation" done by leftists (from the so-called "Frankfurt School") imported from the USA? But why you consider that Anti-Americanism produced by them (though I am no "68" person, I suppose you take me as one) as "docility", I don't understand.

Were you not saying that Larry ordered the firefighters out of there? He told the head fireman to 'pull it' meaning 'them' out of there?

He told to the fire fighters (the organization), or more precisely: to the person who pulled the unit out of WTC7. Was my way of saying it a Germanism you misunderstood?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So do I.

Alleluja!

There is no hint in the bible that the punishment without end (Mk 9:48!) is "corretive" or "restaurative".

Sure there is, it's called Mk 9:49. 'Everyone salted with fire, and salt is good.' Ie fire is good, get some fire.

Jesus Christ saving the world while dishing out eternal damnation to the masses. What's wrong with this picture?

You seem to argue from English and not by Greek.

I argue in English, Helmut, it is my native language. Have a read of the Book of Judges and Samuel to get a feel for the differences between the Hebrew and Roman concept and role of a judge. 'I will purify the sons of Levi, for I am a refiners fire'. God is the eternal fire, Helmut.

Don't know why you give such a description. Maybe this shows your prejudices against me?

He threatens people who are opponents of God, including folks you call "modern-day Pharisees".

Not attacking you Helmut. But you seem to suggest the pharisee is irrelevant to us here now. The pharisee is very much present, with his religious hypocrisies and holier-than-thou attitude. Remember when John the Baptist gives them a serve 'You snakes - And how will you escape the wrath to come?' (Mt 3:7) Why? Obviously because they're the disgustingly self-satisfied would-be 'elect'. God doesn't need the 'chosen people', He can raise men up from stones. Beware the leaven of the Pharisees lurking in many soteriology doctrines.

When I read that God wanted to gather the "children" of Jerusalem. I accept it. And when it is said it did not happen because they didn't want it, I accept that too.

So Israel is stubborn. But that's not where it ends. God changes everyone's heart and mind. What, you think He's just going to say 'My children have defeated me, so be it.' That's why He gave His only-begotten son?? Helmut, please, get with the program. God has promised to save and restore all creation. He's not going to let a few deluded fools overcome Him.

You seem to misunderstand the last picture. When a person was thrown into prison because he did not pay his debts, he stayed there until he payed. Just being in prison was no payment, so if he did not get some money to pay, he would stay forever and die in prison.

How can anyone pay back what he owes to God? Doing God's will is no payment, for this is the standard. And how can one pay anything to God while being in hell?

It's called metaphor, my continental friend. If we build well on good foundations, the house will stand. But a house built on sand...So when a man who's built his identity opposed to God finds himself in the presence of God, he will find himself poor, miserable, naked and wretched - brought to nought. Just a pile of filthy rags. So we need to strive to walk worthy, that we might stand in the evil day.

Explain me how you can label it "lose" when God wins over Satan and all his followers, who are at the place where they belong.

Oh Helmut, Satan wins by burning his enemies until they confess. God wins by changing hearts and minds, as shown by the person and work of Christ. God is love, He doesn't just switch off at some arbitrary point. His ways are higher. His love will never let His creation go, and that's why we love Him, cause He loved us first.

And how do I know the text tells the truth?

Is it the holy word of God? No, of course not. You might do your own follow-up in relation to particular factual claims. There's plenty of public info there.

Trumps „Geldspur“: War die Deutsche Bank in die Russland-Affäre verstrickt?

You have me at a disadvantage Helmut. English please.

If you meet every person ion North America, this might be the case. But how great is the chance you meet all these people.

I'm not sure what you're claiming? How likely do you say it is that 2 out of any 7 astronuts in 1985 had identical twin brothers?

s, but the majority of the bolsheviks were no Jews

Jews and Bolshevism: Names and Lists. The Council of the People’s Commissars

...including the anti-Jewish campaign in the laze 1940s?

Don't know. Maybe a purge, maybe a ruse...?

There was no Jewish conspiracy.

Perish the thought, Helmut. Now that's what a good German postwar education does for you.

Oh, I was stupid. I thought that giving US allies to friends of Russia (as Trump did to the Kurds in Syria) was an pro-Russian act. But you enlightened me. Wrestling with bears is far more better in line with Russian interests. //irony off

Trump sold out the Kurds?! That would never happen under Bush, Clinton, Obama or anyone else.
Helmut, your evidence is grade-A, sir. What else have you got?

That "dichotomy" existed from 1946 (when Truman understood that the warnings of Churchill against Stalin were true) to the late 1980 (when Gorbachev tried to end the cold war, and in the end even destroyed the USSR). Ever tried to drive from West Germany to West Berlin? Or spoken to people who lived in the former GDR after the fall of the wall?

Churchill reportedly said 'We butchered the wrong pig', referring to Hitler/ Stalin. He had a turn of phrase, the old fox.

Do you mean the "reeducation" done by leftists (from the so-called "Frankfurt School") imported from the USA? But why you consider that Anti-Americanism produced by them (though I am no "68" person, I suppose you take me as one) as "docility", I don't understand.

Academically it's probably more a case of Foucault than Adorno. Debauchery in the nightclub scene, inappropriate content, all kinds of abomination. Berlin is notorious for it. All that 'wildside' with a generation of mad lost children just spinning the wheels. So leftism, pacificism, liberalism, and hard prosecution of anyone who questions the narrative. Poor Germany, poor world.

He told to the fire fighters (the organization), or more precisely: to the person who pulled the unit out of WTC7. Was my way of saying it a Germanism you misunderstood?

Look Helmut, if Larry 'told' the person in charge to 'pull it' (meaning the unit), then he would have authority over that person, would he not? Or was it just a casual opinion - he called the guy (just happened to have the number), and said 'Hi, Larry S here, think you should pull it. Just, y'know, my opinion man.'

Hence Larry 'the lucky fire chief' Silverstein. Think you need a more plausible explanation my teutonic friend.

 

[helmut]

Alleluja!

Praise the Lord!

There is no hint in the bible that the punishment without end (Mk 9:48!) is "corretive" or "restaurative".[/QUOTE]
Sure there is, it's called Mk 9:49. 'Everyone salted with fire, and salt is good.' Ie fire is good, get some fire.[/QUOTE]
You misunderstand the verse. I think the fire is the "heat of fire" in 1.Pt 4:12, see 2Tm 3:12 which says that this fire will be suffered by every believer.

Other interpretations are possible, e.g. look at the role of fire in Acts 2.

Jesus Christ saving the world while dishing out eternal damnation to the masses. What's wrong with this picture?

You are too much concerned with numbers. Forgot that God almost always chooses a small remnant?

I argue in English, Helmut, it is my native language.

I try to argue not in my native language /German), but in the language of the Bible.

God is the eternal fire, Helmut.

I already said so, in Post #107. And one consequence is: When God will be all in all, everybody will experience His presence, this includes those who cannot bear it, because they are enemies of God.

Not attacking you Helmut. But you seem to suggest the pharisee is irrelevant to us here now.

There were the historical Pharisees: Believing in all Scripture, not just the Thorah as the Sadducees and Samaritans did, diligently inspecting the word of God, being (despite some rather fiercy debates) rather allies to the believers. This group is gone, history.

What you mean is the term Pharisee used to describe a hypocrite. Well, Paul never said he was an hypocrite back then when he was a Pharisee - this is a totally different term.

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees lurking in many soteriology doctrines.

No, the leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy, as you can read in Lk 12:1.

So Israel is stubborn. But that's not where it ends.

Of course not. It seems that you draw conclusions from the fact that I only explain one point, instead writing a thousand word to describe the full background and foreground and other context.

It's called metaphor, my continental friend.

Of course, why do you always tell me things I know for decades?

Metaphor does not mean you can interpret anything into the text. I explained the plain meaning, and then showed what this means for the metaphoric meaning.

Oh Helmut, Satan wins by burning his enemies until they confess.

Where is this told in Scripture? I only read of Satan as accuser, liar, murderer.

God wins by changing hearts and minds,

He also wins by smashing His enemies, as you can read in the OT.

There was a elder named Markion who taught that the Father of Jesus was not the God of the OT, but a new, alien God. This is heresy, of course. God is the same in Ot and NT. And as the love of God is more clearly shown in the NT, so also the just wrath of God.

His love will never let His creation go

So you don't believe that God will create a new heaven and a new earth (for our present heaven and present earth will be gone), with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to earth?

You have me at a disadvantage Helmut. English please.

You gave me a link that does not work, I gave you a link to a German site. Don't complain, just do your work.

I'm not sure what you're claiming? How likely do you say it is that 2 out of any 7 astronuts in 1985 had identical twin brothers?.

Nope, we are speaking of a brother and a sister, and about your claim these two are identical twin siblings. I still wait for evidence (and not just a page that claims it).

Jews and Bolshevism: Names and Lists. The Council of the People’s Commissars

It starts with a quote from 1919, a time when many people had sympathies for Bolshevism - because they did not know the reality in Russia, and surely did not know how the dictatorship over the proletariat became cruel with Stalin in 1928-53.

Next a blatant lie - "Perhaps this explains why the Red Army uses a Jewish star as its symbol?". No, sir, is a fife-pointed stat, not a six-pointed "David's star". Is it a coincidence, that the USA use the same kind of stars on their flag, great seal, and so on as the USSR did (e.g. as part of the Red Army Star)? (No, it is not, but the link is rather indirect and complicated).

After reading that, I had no inclination to go on. I knew that there were more Jews in the People’s Commissariat than their number in Russia would let expect it, but this does not mean that Jews in general were bolsheviks.

The most prominent Jewish member of the Commissariat, Bronstejn AKA Trotsky, was an opponent of Lenin for a long time, the term "dictatorship over the proletariat" was coined by him, it explains the difference between the (almost democratic) concept or "dictatorship of the proletariat" in Marx's projection to the concepts of Lenin. Only in WW I he became an ally of Lenin, because they both objected the support of the war by the majority of the Socialist movement in general and the RSDLP in special. I always thought his later fate was a rightful punishment for his (rather big) part of establishing the very dictatorship he had denounced earlier.

Perish the thought, Helmut. Now that's what a good German postwar education does for you.

You don't know me. The roots of what I think about Jews are rather pre-war, from my grand-father who feared for the future of Germany because of what was done to them (with reference to Zec 2:8) to Wilhelm Busch (the pastor, not the poet). And since both of my parents come from a part of Germany that was given to Poland in 1945 (the refugees from there were denied to return, in 1946/47 an ehnic cleansing drove out everybody who did not opt for an Polish citizenship, about 1 Million did in that winter) and central Germany was Soviet occupation zone (the later GDR), I grew up in an anti-communist family. I#m pretty sure that I know more about communism, Nazism, and the Jews than you do - especially when I consider what propaganda sites you link to.

Trump sold out the Kurds?! That would never happen under Bush, Clinton, Obama or anyone else.

If you reduce it to that: This has happened before. The Iraqi Shiites were sold out when Bush senior decided not to overthrow Saddam Hussein in 1991. Saddam subdued their uprising (which had been called by US propaganda), and when he went against the Kurds, he was stopped by the establishing of no-fly zones (which BTW also allowed al Qa'ida to find a niche where it could survive). Bush junior was not that wise, he overthrow the government (the US army was surprised the Shiites did not uprise ...), and we know the mess that followed.

There are many decisions made in USA that were short-sighted (a rather unknown example: defending West-Berlin by an air lift took most of US air force out of Asia, which allowed the communists to conquer the half of China they had not conquered in 1945-46). But what Trump did was against US interests, even foreseeable in the time he did it. Plainly serving Russian interests is more than negligence or short-sighted action.

Churchill reportedly said 'We butchered the wrong pig', referring to Hitler/ Stalin.

There is not the slightest evidence that this "report" is true. Even after decades nothing like that came to light.

Churchill (unlike Rooseveld), had no illusions about Stalin, but the thread of Hitler (in 1940 a sort of ally to the USSR) was such a big threat to the UK, that it is unlikely he even felt like that.

Academically it's probably more a case of Foucault than Adorno.

You lost me Foucault never taught in Germany (my first association when hearing that name was the 19th-century physicist), Adorno did and had a clear influence on the "68" movement. So did Marcuse, another philosopher of the Frankfurt school.

Debauchery in the nightclub scene, inappropriate content, all kinds of abomination. Berlin is notorious for it. All that 'wildside' with a generation of mad lost children just spinning the wheels.

I grew up in a Christian family, moved to Berlin only in 2004, and was never involved in that.

So leftism, pacificism, liberalism, and hard prosecution of anyone who questions the narrative. Poor Germany, poor world.

Name anyone who was persecuted just for questioning. Telling lies is a somewhat different matter.

As to "liberalism": The USA are far more liberal than Germany. People have the right to carry weapons of war, with only marginal,control by the state (hence you have far more cases of homicide than we do), the big money companies pay less taxes and have far more influence (hence you have more poor folks than we do, in spite of the USA being richer than Germany), people can tell blatant lies without any consequence, even if they fight against democracy (we have a rather cautious way to control the radicals on the far left or right), and so on. In always any aspect of the word "liberal" the USA are more liberal than Germany.

Look Helmut, if Larry 'told' the person in charge to 'pull it' (meaning the unit), then he would have authority over that person, would he not?

No. The firefighter officer discussed the options with him, it seems the officer did not want to be the only one who made the decision (lest Silverstein would sue him?).

 

[Shrewd Manager]

You misunderstand the verse. I think the fire is the "heat of fire" in 1.Pt 4:12, see 2Tm 3:12 which says that this fire will be suffered by every believer.

No no no Helmut. If salt is good, and everyone is to be salted with fire, then fire is good for salting. Just basic logic. Be salt of the earth. Also, it's not limited to believers, he says everyone. See that's a classic pharisee move - 'reading down' the great promises of salvation.

Other interpretations are possible, e.g. look at the role of fire in Acts 2.

Divine fire is purificatory. It destroys sin and liberates the spirit. Why God is a refiner's fire.

You are too much concerned with numbers. Forgot that God almost always chooses a small remnant?

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette, eh Helmut? The direction of salvation is as described in Ezekiel 47:1-10, where the water begins as a trickle from the temple and swells into a mighty river, cascading into the Dead Sea and bringing everything to life. God promised Abraham that all nations would be blessed, He promised Cyrus that every knee would bow. He guaranteed salvation of all in holy blood at Calvary. Took it to the gentiles. And He delivers on it at the eschaton, as in Revelation 15:4, 21:5, 21:25, 22:2 and so on. The torture the devil experiences is fighting a losing battle against irresistible grace.

Or maybe He just saves Helmut and sends the rest to Poland.

I try to argue not in my native language /German), but in the language of the Bible.

Good, then start understanding what pharisees are.

I already said so, in Post #107. And one consequence is: When God will be all in all, everybody will experience His presence, this includes those who cannot bear it, because they are enemies of God.

See above, even the devil must eventually succumb to irresistible grace, and bow and confess in truth, and seek divine mercy. No longer the devil, but the new Samael.

There were the historical Pharisees: Believing in all Scripture, not just the Thorah as the Sadducees and Samaritans did, diligently inspecting the word of God, being (despite some rather fiercy debates) rather allies to the believers. This group is gone, history.

What you mean is the term Pharisee used to describe a hypocrite. Well, Paul never said he was an hypocrite back then when he was a Pharisee - this is a totally different term.

My oath Paul knew he was a shocking hypocrite, when he recalls how he held the coats of the mob stoning Stephen in Acts 22:20.

No, the leaven of the Pharisees is hypocrisy, as you can read in Lk 12:1.

Yes, and hypocrisy is like - 'God saves the world, but many are still doomed.'

Of course not. It seems that you draw conclusions from the fact that I only explain one point, instead writing a thousand word to describe the full background and foreground and other context.

God knows the end from the beginning, and He is Salvation is the omega plan. Don't know how you can insist on damnation for the many under these fundamental Christian principles.

Where is this told in Scripture? I only read of Satan as accuser, liar, murderer.

Lol, Satan crucifies believers, so God bbqs unbelievers.
And I shout 'Helmut, is anybody home?!'.

He also wins by smashing His enemies, as you can read in the OT.

There was a elder named Markion who taught that the Father of Jesus was not the God of the OT, but a new, alien God. This is heresy, of course. God is the same in Ot and NT. And as the love of God is more clearly shown in the NT, so also the just wrath of God.

Just, but the destruction is revealed to be a necessary step towards salvation. We need to destroy those sinful parts, as symbolised by the various enemies of Israel, and even many Israelites themselves (recall the civil war and the unfortunate segmented harlot).

Marcionism is a heresy. But the wrath of God is revealed in Jesus as an aspect of His love, which ultimately brings about our restoration. Hence 'the fire is good for you'. You might not enjoy it, but you need it.

So you don't believe that God will create a new heaven and a new earth (for our present heaven and present earth will be gone), with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to earth?

Why not? The marriage of heaven and earth, and of the Lamb and his bride. When the Christians and Jews sing the same song, when wolf lies down with lamb, when spears beaten into plowshares...peace on earth and filled with the richness of God's presence That's the promise.

You gave me a link that does not work, I gave you a link to a German site. Don't complain, just do your work.

Oh Helmut...

Nope, we are speaking of a brother and a sister, and about your claim these two are identical twin siblings. I still wait for evidence (and not just a page that claims it).

You want to hear them say it themselves? What would satisfy you Helmut?

After reading that, I had no inclination to go on. I knew that there were more Jews in the People’s Commissariat than their number in Russia would let expect it, but this does not mean that Jews in general were bolsheviks.

But do you have evidence that refutes the names and ethnicities listed? Because if true, that's quite an overwhelming majority, no?

You don't know me. The roots of what I think about Jews are rather pre-war, from my grand-father who feared for the future of Germany because of what was done to them (with reference to Zec 2:8) to Wilhelm Busch (the pastor, not the poet). And since both of my parents come from a part of Germany that was given to Poland in 1945 (the refugees from there were denied to return, in 1946/47 an ehnic cleansing drove out everybody who did not opt for an Polish citizenship, about 1 Million did in that winter) and central Germany was Soviet occupation zone (the later GDR), I grew up in an anti-communist family. I#m pretty sure that I know more about communism, Nazism, and the Jews than you do - especially when I consider what propaganda sites you link to.

Thanks for setting me straight Helmut. You see, that's the kind of thing God will do for unbelievers, except they'll be completely converted by the end of it. That's the Gospel Truth, the sword from the mouth of the conquering white horse rider.

As for me, I've read enough to not be so foolish as to deny the massive influence of secular international judaism on communism and bolshevist politics. Open those eyes Helmut. Synagogue of Satan at work.

If you reduce it to that: This has happened before. The Iraqi Shiites were sold out when Bush senior decided not to overthrow Saddam Hussein in 1991. Saddam subdued their uprising (which had been called by US propaganda), and when he went against the Kurds, he was stopped by the establishing of no-fly zones (which BTW also allowed al Qa'ida to find a niche where it could survive). Bush junior was not that wise, he overthrow the government (the US army was surprised the Shiites did not uprise ...), and we know the mess that followed.

There are many decisions made in USA that were short-sighted (a rather unknown example: defending West-Berlin by an air lift took most of US air force out of Asia, which allowed the communists to conquer the half of China they had not conquered in 1945-46). But what Trump did was against US interests, even foreseeable in the time he did it. Plainly serving Russian interests is more than negligence or short-sighted action.

Ok, so where realpolitik pragmatism says you do a deal or 2 with the Russkies, that's just politics, right? Doesn't necessarily make Trump a 'Russian influencer'. He might be, but you'd need much more and evidence of a course of conduct.

There is not the slightest evidence that this "report" is true. Even after decades nothing like that came to light.

Churchill (unlike Rooseveld), had no illusions about Stalin, but the thread of Hitler (in 1940 a sort of ally to the USSR) was such a big threat to the UK, that it is unlikely he even felt like that.

It's a very Churchillian type of comment. I could see him saying it, even if he never actually did so. Look, Churchill was bought sold and paid for. He was in so much personal debt by the time his call came up, he just had to follow orders. And keep in mind, Churchill's bombing started WWII.

You lost me Foucault never taught in Germany (my first association when hearing that name was the 19th-century physicist), Adorno did and had a clear influence on the "68" movement. So did Marcuse, another philosopher of the Frankfurt school.

So who brought relaxed laws allowing all the decadence, gay nightclub scene and inappropriate contento industries from the early 70s til present? Extreme libtards and Foucauldians, that's who. You should check out E Michael Jones on this one, he's an Irish-German American academic who taught in Catholic schools in Germany in the 80s.

I grew up in a Christian family, moved to Berlin only in 2004, and was never involved in that.

That's the culture though, notorious. And we're just trying to account for it here.

Name anyone who was persecuted just for questioning. Telling lies is a somewhat different matter.

Germar Rudolf and Sylvia Stolz, for starters.

No. The firefighter officer discussed the options with him, it seems the officer did not want to be the only one who made the decision (lest Silverstein would sue him?).

No dude, when my house is on fire, the fire chief does not ask for my opinion when he sends in the brigade. Especially when I'm just the tenant. Come on Helmut, find a better explanation, that one's cooked.

 

[helmut]

No no no Helmut. If salt is good, and everyone is to be salted with fire, then fire is good for salting. Just basic logic. Be salt of the earth.

Therefore it is said that every disciple has to suffer persecution.

Also, it's not limited to believers, he says everyone. See that's a classic pharisee move - 'reading down' the great promises of salvation.

So you reckon Paul under the pharisees?

He promised Cyrus that every knee would bow.

Well, in 583 every knee in Judaea bowed before Nebuchadnezzar. Bowing knees can be by free will, or under force. Those who don't bow in this time out of their will, will have to bow down and understand that they have no argument left against God and his just judgement in the next world.

Even in the very last picture in Revelation, where the glory of the New Jerusalem is described, there are those who are outside.

All does not always mean literally all, just look how often all cattle of the Egyptians was destroyed in the ten plagues!

Or maybe He just saves Helmut and sends the rest to Poland.

Absurd.

See above, even the devil must eventually succumb to irresistible grace, and bow and confess in truth, and seek divine mercy. No longer the devil, but the new Samael.

The Bible says otherwise, the devil, the beast and the false prophet will be tormented into the eternities of eterities.

The Greek aion may mean eternity or age, but in the plural is usually means "eternity". With the double plural in Rev 20:10 there can be no doubt that etermity is meant. The tormenting of the devil will have no end.

My oath Paul knew he was a shocking hypocrite, when he recalls how he held the coats of the mob stoning Stephen in Acts 22:20.

Paul says otherwise.
Ph 3: 4 If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
Paul ddi not know that his "faultless" life was not faultless before God. If he had known he was a hypocrite, he would not write later in that way.

1Tm 1:13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
The blasphemes against Jesus were forgiven, because did not know what he did.

A hypocrite knows what he does, but does not condemn his wrong deeds, he covers them up. Paul was sincere when he persecuted Christ.

God knows the end from the beginning, and He is Salvation is the omega plan. Don't know how you can insist on damnation for the many under these fundamental Christian principles.

I insist because what the Bible says is more important to me than your "christian" principles. God's plan is that every enemy is subdued (1Co 15:25).

Marcionism is a heresy. But the wrath of God is revealed in Jesus as an aspect of His love,

No, the logic of Rm 1-3 i different: Paul speaks about God's wrath on all unrighteousness, with the conclusion that everybody who does so deserves death (Rom 1:18-32), then shows that those who condemn these sinners are no better (Rm 2:1-16) and event the Jews are also under the wrath of God (2:17-3:8), which is somewhat recapitulated in Rm 3:8-20. This foil is the background for the good news in Rm 3:21ff.

I pointed to the fact that your concept of God is rather like the alien God of Marcion than like he God revealed in the Bible.

Why not?

Because saying that God does not let his creation go is in contradiction to the creation of our age being gone (God will let it go) and a new creation. Referreing to OT pictures is no answer to my question.

You want to hear them say it themselves? What would satisfy you Helmut?

It was you who said that they said it themselves. Nice to see you were not telling the truth ...

And it is too late in Germany, I will continue tomorrow. But I'm rather tired of arguing with a person that changes his mind without confessing that what he sad was wrong.

 

[helmut]

Thanks for setting me straight Helmut. You see, that's the kind of thing God will do for unbelievers, except they'll be completely converted by the end of it. That's the Gospel Truth, the sword from the mouth of the conquering white horse rider.

As for me, I've read enough to not be so foolish as to deny the massive influence of secular international judaism on communism and bolshevist politics. Open those eyes Helmut. Synagogue of Satan at work.

There is no "international judaism", and there is no "international anglo-saxonism". There are Jews all over the world, and Anglo-Saxons (English speakers) all over the world (not even distributed, and some gaps here and there ...). That's all. Jews are somewhat more inclined to be revolutionary, this is reflected in the statistics of jewish bolsheviks.

Ok, so where realpolitik pragmatism says you do a deal or 2 with the Russkies, that's just politics, right?

A deal means that both sides get something they wanted. A deal between USA and Russia means the USA have something got for what they gave. An act that only serves Russian interests and gives nothing for the USA is no deal between Russia and the USA. It may be a deal between Russia and the President, but this means the president betrays his country for his own interests.

What did the USA get in exchange for losing a non-islamist ally in Syria, and being forced to leave Syria with wanted posters that thread to kill the US soldiers?

Doesn't necessarily make Trump a 'Russian influencer'. He might be, but you'd need much more and evidence of a course of conduct.

I did give more: Heating the political debate and dividing the country even ore than before, openly saying that he trusts Putin more than US agencies, sowing distrust in elections without any evidence, ...

It's a very Churchillian type of comment.

More Churchillian than Churchill.

Look, Churchill was bought sold and paid for. He was in so much personal debt by the time his call came up, he just had to follow orders. And keep in mind, Churchill's bombing started WWII.

No, it was the bombing of the Westerplate on 1st of September, 4:45 pm (Hitler said "Since 5:45 there is firing back", the last part of the lie it were the poles who started the war).

You may say Churchill was responsible for Great Britain to enter the war, in accordance to a British assurance to Poland from 31th of March, 1939. Which was a reaction to Nazi Germany swallowing Czechia, a blatant break of the Munich deal. Do you really think it would have been better to leave Poland to Nazi Germany?

So who brought relaxed laws allowing all the decadence, gay nightclub scene and inappropriate contento industries from the early 70s til present?

In Germany, the "social-liberal" coalition (SPD+F.D.P.), culturally speaking: the influence from the revolting studetns ("68" movement, AKA new left). In the US mostly known for Anti-Vietnam protests.

You should check out E Michael Jones on this one, he's an Irish-German American academic who taught in Catholic schools in Germany in the 80s.

A catholic gone radical is no neutral source.

It took enough time to find out which Michael Jones you meant, and looking into this website did not bring me to an article on Foucauld. I don't have time to waste by looking after garbage, so if you want me to read anything be more definite and give a direct link.

Germar Rudolf

A liar, who appeared under four names in order to mock the German justice. Fired for misusing the name of his employer for a private investigation related to holocaust denial. He uttered many lies.

For example, he took a passage from the inquiry of the Nuremberg IMT, where Albert Speer was questioned on chemical "wonder arms", and Speer declared that they did not exist. The incident which Jackson asked about (and it seems he was rather skeptical on it) was about a fire of 400-500°C (about 900°F) that allegedly killed 20,000 People (it seems that report was totally fake), and Germar makes an accusation against the Germans (not the Nazis!) to have killed 20,000 Jews by an atomic bomb.

Sylvia Stolz

Another person that lies about the holocaust.

As I said in my last posting, you may get into difficulties if you spread lies (like Germar and Stolz did). I know about the holocaust, from the memories of my grandmother to the stumbling blocks (Stolpersteine) you will find all over Berlin if you come there - and many serious historical work done and published in Germany.

Rm 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
From a passage that ends with the motto of Robert Etienne (AKA Stephanus), a printer and one (if not the) most important bible editors in the 16th century: Do not be arrogant, but tremble.

No dude, when my house is on fire, the fire chief does not ask for my opinion when he sends in the brigade.

It was not about sending in. You seem to use similar tricks as Germar. Are you his latest pseudonym?