Conspiracy theories in the Bible

[timothyu]

I believe that every single Christian church has some level of a conspiracy theory, entwined in what the church teaches.

Didn't they used to use the word heretic instead?

 

[BobRyan]

I think that conspiracy theories are imbedded all the way through society. Not just in the world of Christianity. The idea of a conspiracy is fundamental to politics.

I believe that every single Christian church has some level of a conspiracy theory, entwined in what the church teaches. Very evident in church eschatology and most profoundly evident, in how the church describes itself. A simple example; our church is the one true church.

In the OP and many posts after that we see many many examples of conspiracy theories endorsed by the Bible and a significant number of them are still applicable today when it comes to good angels vs bad ones and how the devil is at war against the church of God.

So then how could the church not have such theories - when it claims to teach what the Bible teaches?

Not too surprising.

 

[klutedavid]

In the OP and many posts after that we see many many examples of conspiracy theories endorsed by the Bible and a significant number of them are still applicable today when it comes to good angels vs bad ones and how the devil is at war against the church of God.

Your point of "well then the church must have a lot of those theories" is not the shocking conclusion you may have at first supposed. How could the church not have them - when it claims to teach what the Bible teaches? I don't see how that would even be surprising.

I think your reply was aimed at someone else. That point you cited was not mine.

 

[klutedavid]

Didn't they used to use the word heretic instead?

I think the word 'heretic' identified people who disagreed with a church teaching.

Whereas a conspiracy theory is often a political creature. For example, the US election was littered with conspiracy theories, one in particular the QANON conspiracy. Which you saw on tv involving the insurrection on Capitol hill.

When a church sees itself as the subject of attack from powerful organizations. Or even the government is against them, then that would be classed as a conspiracy against them.

 

[BobRyan]

I would say there was a conspiracy by Herod. But, then, when he found out he had been tricked, he might have felt there was a conspiracy against him!

Indeed it can cut both ways.

 

[klutedavid]

I do want to point out however, because this can be dangerous territory, there are the Jews from Judea, then there are the Kharzar Jews otherwise known as the Ashkenazi who are in fact Canaanites/baal and moloch worshipers, of whom the Russian king at the time was displeased with and threatened to destroy unless they converted to either Christian, Judaism or Islam.

They chose Judaism but did not fully convert and still practiced their "devil worshiping" and have since then blamed everything they had done on the Jews. It is not the Jews, but those who pretend they are (Rothschilds we're looking in your direction).

And another point, some may be a bit bewildered to find that the "protocols of the elders of Zion" is not Jewish but in fact Jesuit, as it is identical to many of their known ancient writings. Just wanted to put that out there because sometimes Conspiracies can verge on the anti-Semitic.

Now that post is riddled with conspiracy theories.

 

[DamianWarS]

You also see quite a lot about the Character of God...

Never forget that many of the the old testament patriarchs came to faith - believing in resurrection without direct knowledge of Messiah Jesus.

they had a far more concrete world view and approached even the concept of God differently which is why the form, such as the law, the flood, the desert, etc.. comes first so that it may point to deeper stuff.

 

[timothyu]

I think the word 'heretic' identified people who disagreed with a church teaching.

Which in effect has the same result in trying to discredit or shut down an opposing opinion.

 

[klutedavid]

Which in effect has the same result in trying to discredit or shut down an opposing opinion.

Nearly every conspiracy I have ever heard of was a false conspiracy. The definition of a conspiracy is about a group of people generating the conspiracy. Whereas a heretic is a singular person who disagrees with an established doctrine of the church.

 

[Jipsah]

Yet it is very popular to deny that any conspiracy theory is legit

(Unless you work for the FBI, or CIA, NSA, or ...)

Depends on the "conspiracy", dunnit?

 

[Jipsah]

It is well documented that the Nazis based themselves off the Catholic church and the SS off the Jesuits, and they used the protocols as an excuse to attack the Jews. Even if the book was faked, it was most likely faked by Jesuits.
I would happily have a fair and open discussion about this.

Now that's a conspiracy theory!

 

[timothyu]

The definition of a conspiracy is about a group of people generating the conspiracy.

Or in today's world a means to discredit someone else even if they have facts, especially as a matter of if they have facts because the attempt is to then not only discredit the person but the information.

 

[Religiot]

Conspiracy Theory: a belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for a circumstance or event.
=============================================
So then:

1. Invisible evil angels controlling/possessing-at-times humans to accomplish evil. 2Cor 4:4, Eph 2:1-5, 1 Peter 5:8, Eph 6:10-13

• 2 Cor 4:4 Satan is "the god of this world"

2. Invisible good angels providing miracles protection and guidance to help save mankind

3. Judas working with the Sanhedrin.to capture Christ
4. Paul being informed about a secret plot to take his life

5. God the Son becomes incarnate, virgin birth, savior of mankind so that a regular looking human turns out to be the God-man saving the world.

6. Christ in heaven as our High Priest "the main point" of Heb 8:1-5
7. The invisible Holy Spirit "convicting the world of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16

what others can you think of?
==============================

Christianity is no stranger to conspiracy theories.

The great conspiracy that should concern us all, above all others:

"And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them." --Jeremiah 11:9-11

"And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation. There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken. The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord God." --Ezekiel 22:23-31

"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; how that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." --Jude 1:1-25

I believe all other conspiracies are a distraction from this one.

 

[klutedavid]

Which in effect has the same result in trying to discredit or shut down an opposing opinion.

Yes the result is the same.

 

[klutedavid]

Or in today's world a means to discredit someone else even if they have facts, especially as a matter of if they have facts because the attempt is to then not only discredit the person but the information.

If they have the facts, then that would not be a conspiracy.

 

[timothyu]

If they have the facts, then that would not be a conspiracy.

Exactly but it doesn't stop many.

 

[klutedavid]

Exactly but it doesn't stop many.

That's what puzzles me. I had a Muslim flat mate who had a conspiracy that he believed resolutely. That the United States did not put a man on the moon. I was deeply amazed that a conspiracy theory could be so widespread and held so firmly in the Islamic world. Beyond any question the Muslims are wrong and regardless of the facts, that is what they believe.

I now have a flat mate that doesn't believe that Covid-19 exists. It does not matter what the facts are, that is what he believes.

People will believe whatever they want to believe.

 

[helmut]

the bible hangs upon the ramblings of an old man who after 40 days of fasting had a mystic experience

That's Jesus. Mose had his mystic experience after 40 years of living in the desert, and he showed the power of God openly to the people and the Egyptians, before happened what you wrote. And it is not told that he fasted on Sinai.

He then led them into a desert for 40 years where he writes the history books to his own liking as far back as 2500 years and law that foreshadows all things to come all while having secret tent meetings with the creator of all things.

Since Genesis contains here and there bits of information later than Mose(no, I don't refer to prophecy, but rather to Gen 36:31 and possible other bits), it is unlikely that genesis was compiled by Mose. The question how much of the Pentateuch was written by Mose himself is complex, unless you take "(book of) Mose" as indication of authorship instead common name of these book(s), there is no indication in the Bibnle that it was completely written by Mose himself.

oh, and they carry a magical box that holds God in it to win their wars

The only incident in the Bible where the "ark of covenant" was used in that way, Israel lost the battle.

This of course would be a paraphrase of how outsiders view the bible

Not the whole Bible, but only the Torah (aka Pentateuch). And with some distortions, as explained above. But your limitation to the first 5 books of the Bible explains why you don't about know the defeat of Israel when they took the ark as refuge against the Philistians, and lost the battle.

An outsider with a fair view on the Bible would tell a somewhat different story.

 

[Jaxxi]

Yet it is very popular to deny that any conspiracy theory is legit

(Unless you work for the FBI, or CIA, NSA, or ...)

They try to make you feel like you are crazy when the facts are so numerous it is just that the people are above the law who the conspiracy is about. There are many conspiracies that have been prosecuted. They are called " Grand Jury Indictments" and they do come up- it just takes longer to bring them to trial or be paid off to dismiss.

 

[helmut]

That's what puzzles me. I had a Muslim flat mate who had a conspiracy that he believed resolutely. That the United States did not put a man on the moon. I was deeply amazed that a conspiracy theory could be so widespread and held so firmly in the Islamic world.

This theory is also active outside the Muslim world. Some ignorance about counterintutive facts (e.g. unless you have a modern digital camera, it is impossible to take a photo on the moon where you see the stars behind an astronaut - either the stars are too dimly and the heaven is black, or the astronaut is white because he is much brighter than the stars), and some distorted facts (e.g. the flag waving out of gravitity and lack of air presented as a flag waving out of wind, i.e. air) persuade some people that the whole "man on the moon" story is a fake.

Other such rather widespread theories are "the earth is flat" (seems to be more popular now than in the middle ages, when only uneducated people thought so), "9-11 was done by the CIA/Mossad/WTC owner/...", "the holocaust never happened" or "Covid-19 is not harmful, its all fake news, they want to steal your freedom".

These theories become widespread because people believe what they read on dubious internet sites (or worse, in their Facebook "bubble") rather than listen to serious media.