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Featured conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by FireDragon76, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Half-educated opinions from religious ideologues don't count.
     
  2. dms1972

    dms1972 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The issue is not the religiousness or lack of religiousness of the practice, but the spirituality involved, a somewhat different issue.

    I think it would be best on a opt in basis.

    There may be potential problems of spiritual crisis in some practitioners because western societies have historically placed an accent on the conscious mind and reasoning they therefore have little experience in meditative practices. Its not for no reason as I have mentioned several times on these forums that even Jung cautioned westerners from dabbling in eastern meditative practices.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  3. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven "After all this time?" Always.

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    I realize the discussion is going a bit off-topic with the talk about America's founding, but I wanted to ask you about your response. It isn't my intent to put you on the spot, but since you seem to believe that America was founded with the principles and values of Christianity, would you please explain how the following examples of America's own history demonstrates that? I look forward to your response.

    (1) The U.S. government violating hundreds of treaties with the tribal nations.

    (2) The U.S. government forcibly removing Indians from their lands or killing them for their lands.

    (3) The Three-Fifth Compromise, which implied a black person was only 3/5th of a person.

    (4) Legalized slavery, which lasted for 89 years until the 13th Amendment in 1865.

    (5) Denying minorities equality to white people for 188 years until the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

    (6) Denying Indians citizenship for 148 years until the American Indian Citizenship Act in 1924.

    (7) Denying Indians religious freedom until the American Indian Freedom of Religion Act in 1978.
     
  4. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Active Member

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    Sounds more like Old Testament.
     
  5. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Concerning the Treaty you mentioned, according to Wikipedia, "A superseding treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805, omitted this phrase." This is in reference to the claim in the 1776 Treaty that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

    It's so important to understand the huge role Christianity played in the founding of the U.S., esp. in the area of education. The following quote is from the book titled America’s Providential History.

    The Biblical principles upon which America was birthed were passed on to succeeding generations through education in the home, church, and school. Christian education assured a foundation of liberty. Our Founders understood that tyranny and bondage would result from ignorance of the truth. This truth was rooted in the Bible.​

    As historian Frederick Mayer concluded in A History of Educational Thought, “The present dilemmas in educational theory are represented by the conflict between champions of progressive education and traditionalists” (p. 354). (Many Americans would question Mayer’s opinion that the progressives are “champions;” nevertheless, his conclusion is basically accurate.)

    The widely used American history textbook History of a Free People by Bragdon McCutchen (1967 edition) explains the purpose for some of the first “public” schools in America:

    The New England Puritans believed that citizens should learn enough English to read the Bible and understand the laws of the country. The famous Massachusetts General School Act of 1647 [also called the Ole’ Deluder Satan Act] stated:​

    It being one chiefe project of the oulde deluder Satan, to keep men from the knowledge of the scripture [Bible]…it is therefore ordered, that evry township…after the Lord hath increased them in number to 50 households shall appoint one to teache all such children as shall resort to him to write & reade, whose wages shall be paid by the parents or mastrs of such children or by the inhabitants in genrall. (p.23)​

    McCutchen also explains that America’s first colleges were formed to offer training for the ministry.

    Religion was the principal force behind the founding of most institutions of higher learning in the English colonies. Harvard, William and Mary, Yale, Rhode Island College (later Brown), the College of New Jersey (later Princeton), and Rutgers were founded principally to train young men for the ministry (p. 24).​

    Following the Christian orientation of the first schools, The New England Primer, published in 1690, became the first American textbook. This text contained Bible verses and was used to teach reading and Bible.

    In 1783 Noah Webster’s “Blue-backed Speller” was published. Like the New England Primer, this spelling text included Bible verses. Another spelling text, the National Elementary Speller published by A.S. Barnes and Company in 1871, also contained Bible verses along with references to God and the deity of Jesus Christ.

    In 1787 Congress passed the Northwest Ordinance. Even though this important document applied only to the Northwest Territory, it contained a bill of rights which served as a model for the national Bill of Rights contained in the U.S. Constitution. Article 3 states:

    Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, Schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.​

    President George Washington delivered his farewell address in 1796. The speech was made before Congress to mark the end of Washington’s presidency and offers the following wise counsel:

    Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens…

    …let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in the exclusion of religious principle.​

    In 1836 the Bible-based McGuffey Readers, produced by William H. McGuffey, were printed for the first time. These readers, utilizing intensive, explicit phonics, were used so extensively that over one hundred million copies were sold during the next seventy-five years.

    The U.S. Supreme Court handed down its landmark decision Vidal v. Girard’s Executors in 1844. The case centered on the will of John F. Girard. This will granted the city of Philadelphia millions of dollars to start a school with a prohibition that clergy could not hold any position or duty in the school and a requirement that the school “instill...the purest principles of morality.”

    Some were interpreting the language of the will to mean that the school could not be Christian, but Justice Story, speaking on behalf of the Court, disagreed. He had this to say:

    The testator does not say that Christianity shall not be taught in the college. But only that no ecclesiastic of any sect shall hold or exercise any station or duty in the college....

    Why may not laymen instruct in the general principles of Christianity as well as ecclesiastics… Why may not the Bible, and especially the New Testament, without note or comment, be read and taught as a divine revelation in the college—its general precepts expounded, its evidences explained and its glorious principles of morality inculcated?​

    This case makes very interesting reading and proves just how far America has strayed from its Christian roots in education! The Supreme Court assumed that the Bible would be taught in public schools; there was no debate about this. The Justice’s question is a good one. “Why may not the Bible... be read and taught as a divine revelation” in any public school in America? Did the U.S. Supreme Court of 1844 misinterpret the Constitution, or did the Court of the 1960s get it wrong when they outlawed Bible reading by public school staff?
     
  6. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Isn't mindfulness basically the same practice as zenbuddhism?
     
  7. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    What you described creates the gateway to the sorcery oriented network.
     
  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    That's not the case in my experience.
     
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Yes, I predate Engel v. Vitale (1962). I can just remember Eisenhower.
     
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  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Prayer and fasting is an exercise of "mindfulness."
     
  11. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Spending 5-10 minutes a day on mindfulness is not going to provoke a spiritual crisis. People have to go on multi-day retreats for that to happen, and even then, it's relatively rare and usually restricted to people with pre-existing psychological problem, such as repressed traumatic incidents.
     
  12. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    There's a difference between somebody teaching mindfulness from a humanistic perspective, and a New Ager prone to wooly thinking who believes they have magical powers. The trances that New Agers engage in having nothing to do with mindfulness and Zen.
     
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    If that's the case, then the "gateway" is always open, whatever one engages in. I would submit that trying to achieve a basic sanity and self-knowledge makes one less likely to be deluded, not moreso.

    There are quite a few that were also trained in the Buddhist Thai Forest tradition, which focuses alot on mindfulness. Anybody that calls their practice vipassana for instance. The Thai Forest tradition is relatively accessible because many of them did not focus heavily on the doctrinal aspects of Buddhism; more than a few were Buddhist Modernists (the Buddhist equivalent of liberal Protestants).
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  14. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    You really know nothing about the practice then and your comment is an example why the author Warren Smith who speaks in churches about his experience as a New Age practitioner prior to becoming a Christian was very shocked at the gullibility & total lack of spiritual knowledge or discernment in the average churches.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Indeed, monastic spirituality is not inaccesible for modern people, even from very different religious traditions. I watched a BBC video series several months ago, Extreme Pilgrim, about Peter Owen Jones, a British vicar in the Church of England (and relatively liberal), and on one episode he travels to Egypt to be with Fr. Lazarus el-Anthony in the desert. He spends 30 days as a hermit with Fr. Lazarus. Though it was probably his most "foreign" religious experience as a minister in a Protestant church, he was able to appreciate the experience in the end.

    I think some people aim very low in their spirituality and they let fear hem them in too much. The only way to grow spiritually is to be engaged with our dark side, not to run away from it out of fear that we can't deal with it.
     
  16. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Your comment reminds me of the sorry state of most of the worldly liberal churches, they never got past milk.
     
  17. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Your comment is ignorant and based off preconceived notions of what you think makes one a liberal. I have actually delved into Christian spirituality in many forms, at one time I attended a conservative church about a decade ago but I realized that at some point, the answers it was giving didn't seem to match up with my experience of the world, so I moved on. I have drunk that milk, and I decided it was not particularly good milk.
     
  18. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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  19. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Some Christians are engaged in what they call in Zen makkyo. The whole spiritual warfare thing that people are drawing from in their critique of mindfulness, for instance, is nothing but playing around with the cobwebs and phantasms of the mind and thinking one is engaged in some profound experience, when in reality it is quite mundane and explained in terms of simple existential fears that are articulated within ones cultural context.

    A typical ignorant polemical screed from the damaged mind of an authoritarian.
     
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