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Featured conservative groups fight mindfulness in schools

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by FireDragon76, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    I was saying that I was a student when there was prayer in the public schools. Actually, though, as a young adult, I taught a Bible class in a public high school as part of a privately funded program in my city. The class was an elective.
     
  2. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    That must've been very interesting. Are they one of the forms of western monasticism which adhere to a vow of silence? Forgive me, but I can't remember which ones do and which don't. (And monasteries are generally fairly quiet anyway.)

    Of course. The point is not to make everyone be Coptic people. I didn't magically become an Egyptian when I joined the Coptic Orthodox Church either, but if they can get something from the teachings anyway, then who really cares? Neither were all of the desert fathers or for that matter even the 'Coptic' popes ethnic Egyptians (consider Abba John the Persian, the great Roman fathers like Abba Arsanios, Abba Maximos, etc.), because that doesn't matter at all. Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, whether you want to present it that explicitly or not. I believe everyone can benefit from a daily prayer rule, and this is the one of my particular Church and tradition.

    Again, everyone can benefit from a daily prayer rule, even more so than these children could benefit from contentless meditation. With respect, I think you may be making more than I intended of the form. The Coptic practice of chanting or praying the Agpeya is but one ancient form of Christian prayer which encourages mindfulness. There are certainly others:


    Benedictine


    Indian Orthodox Syrian


    Syriac Orthodox (Mesopotamian -- Iraq, Turkey, Syria, etc.)

    Etc.

    And all of these are fully adaptable and adapted to the local languages and cultures to the extent that they thus far have been so adapted (e.g., Syriac prayers in Malayalam in the Indian case, or Coptic prayers in Spanish for the Bolivian Coptic Church, etc.), as Christianity has always striven to be. So again, the matter is not the form (all of these just come in particular forms precisely because of their adaptation by people in particular places and times; if Westerners don't have their own forms then it's just because they've forgotten them -- it's not like St. John Cassian or Benedict of Nursia cease having ever existed because modern day Westerners would rather watch Netflix than pray or something), so much as presenting deeply rooted and meaningful Christian alternatives to contentless, generically "Eastern" or "New Age" meditation, so that conservative Christians don't have to freak out about it, since they'd know that Christianity has both mindfulness and content, in every place it has ever gone and among every people.

    I tend to see this sort of thing as a defensive reaction among people who do not necessarily have or know that they have such roots in their own religion, and are afraid of losing their children to more "hip" and trendy things, like generic new age-y "Spiritual but not Religious" piffle. That's a real fear, for sure, but the answer is not to rage about the piffle! The answer is to present the alternative which will resonate in your society or your community or your family (probably not at a public school, unless you want to make a big scene; though there is nothing that would stop your child from bringing a Psalm book to school and praying from it privately during the meditation time, I wouldn't imagine), whether it comes from here, there or anywhere. So long as it is orthodox, who can fear anything? Either God is with us or He isn't, and I believe He is.


    Psalm 57 (56) in English, according to the Agpeya. How sweet it is. +


    "O Sing Unto Him" -- Midnight Praise in English, another worthy, God-honoring alternative to the emptiness of the New Age
     
  3. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Active Member

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    It says a lot about them to be opposing inner peace.
     
  4. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Actually it's the opposite, it is the lack of spiritual maturity & having no spiritual discernment when people think this practice is benign. Ignorance is not bliss.
     
  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    I've never encountered teacher/administrator lead prayer in public schools, and I'm 43 years old. That has been a settled issue in public schools for a long time, my entire adult life and beyond.

    So my guess is some folks are quite a bit older than me.
     
  6. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    You need to demonstrate how it is actually harmful rather than just asserting it is so.
     
  7. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Yeah, that question was directed to me, and I am quite a bit older than you. :)

    "A long time" is relative, isn't it? Like I said before, Bible reading and prayer were commonplace in the public schools for the first 200 years (give or take a few) that America was a nation. Then magically, in the '70s, these practices became "unconstitutional."
     
  8. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Is it fair to say that it is not harmful as presented, but could be harmful in the same way that anything that does not have specific content to it could be filled in with something harmful if the person lacks discernment? That's how I understood what our friend is trying to say, anyway, and if that is what they do in fact mean, then I would agree, but I would also say that this is true of any practice -- e.g., any movie, song, or other media can promote either good or bad values -- we do not ban the consumption of media at all as a result, but instead try to teach younger people who are more impressionable to vigilant about what they put before their eyes, ears, and brains.

    But something absolutely without content is therefore neutral. As an Orthodox Christian, I do not like the neutral (even though I recognize why it's like that in a public school environment), but would take it as an opportunity to pray privately in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. It is called "Inner Explorer", and the Holy Trinity is what I would like to find in any inner exploration of myself! That is, after all, the 'point' of prayer. :)
     
  9. Pedra

    Pedra Newbie

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    Apparently you didn't bother to look at any of the links--figures. :help:
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Nevertheless, it meets the description that the person I quoted presented as a justification for schools to use that yoga-based routine.
     
  11. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    Better that no one of voting age learns mindfulness practice. That way, if conservatives succeed in robbing people of their health insurance, raising the retirement age, lowering the minimum wage, and failing to respond to, national disasters like the California earthquakes, voters will have lots of anger and only one place to deal with it---THE BALLOT BOX. The teachers in our town just lost their union. They have to join the state organization, where school districts have more influence. Now class size is going up and the school board is making educational decisions without educator input. Whose fault is it? Teachers, take your anger and deal with it through THE BALLOT BOX.

    There is cause and effect going on. 30 plus years of income inequality began when Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union. Every year the middle class is hanging on by its fingernails as income inequality gets worse. Don't "OM" yourself into complacency. Take that anger and put it into the ballot box.

    And remember, it's not immigrants and people of color who are taking your jobs. It's technology. It's deregulated companies that would lop off half their payroll to please stockholders. It's legislators who bust unions and don't hold employers accountable.
     
  12. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Yeah, let's make this thread into a left/right grudge match! Those always end well! :rolleyes:
     
  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I don't know that "appeal to antiquity" is going to be a very good argument. Considering the various things which were accepted as constitutional in the past, but which I'd like to think no reasonable thinking American would accept now--slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc.

    Just because something was generally accepted in the past doesn't make it right, especially when non-majority persons are deprived of their rights.

    Further: If public schools can have official Bible readings, then that also means there can be official Qu'ran readings, official readings from the Book of Mormon, the Vedas, etc.

    -CryptoLUtheran
     
  14. Stormy

    Stormy Senior Contributor

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    Really dumb

    But then, maybe so am I .
    I actually had to look this up. What it amounts to is more cuddling.

    Instead of telling students to be strong, we tell them to breath. Go to your safe place. Lol

    If this is the way we teach then we will create the generation that we deserve. A country full of weak ultra sensitive fools.

    You must understand that God created us both with a heart and a brain. The heart is best nurtured at home with guidance from the church and the brain is best nurtured in schools of education.

    At this point schools are failing to educate. That is where the focus should remain
     
  15. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    The "appeal of antiquity"? I'm not THAT old! LOL

    I understand what you're saying, but this nation was clearly founded on Christian principles, not on any other religious belief system. Many of our laws still reflect the biblical morality of the Ten Commandments--laws about adultery, lying, stealing, etc.

    There's nothing in the Constitution that says all religions have to be equally represented in a public venue. And consider that the U.S. is a constitutional republic. Our laws have to pass the muster of the Constitution, not the majority of Americans.
     
  16. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The 70s? Try the 60s. the Supreme Court cases were Engel v. Vitale (1962) and Abington School District v. Schempp (1963). I started public school in 1967 and prayer was gone by then.

    To me, doing away with mandatory prayer and Bible reading is public schools was a wise move.
     
  17. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Yeah. Whitewash it all you want. It's mysticism repackaged under secular labels.

    And it's funny how, when someone objects, they use all the same defenses Christians tried to use to keep Christianity in the schools. It's special pleading. My favorite part was where the article moved into a "separate but equal" argument.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  18. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Yeah. It couldn't possibly be someone else is trying to sneak in their religious views. We all know only the bad Christian evangelicals do that.
     
  19. Deborah D

    Deborah D Prayer Warrior Supporter

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    Yeah, my bad, the '60s and '70s. I started school earlier than you, but I'm sure that the various states dumped these practices at different times.

    I'm glad you were not one of the Founding Fathers. At least some generations were exposed to the truth in public schools. Now, there is very little truth taught. Instead,

    *Children are taught "outercourse" in sex education classes. They learn the lie that sex is okay as long as the girl doesn't get pregnant....
    *They are taught to believe in themselves (a lie of the religion of humanism) instead of believing in the one true God of the Bible....
    *And now, they are indoctrinated with New Age (i.e. more false religious) lies. This has been going on for decades and started with some of the early self-esteem programs used with elementary school children.

    It seems that anything and everything BUT Christianity is tolerated in so many public schools today! The Founding Fathers would roll over in their graves!

    It's interesting to me that Christians on a Christian forum would balk at the idea of Bible reading and prayer in the public schools. It couldn't be that most of these Christians attended public schools, could it? The indoctrination against these longstanding practices has worked!
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  20. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Active Member

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    All the links I saw were about the benefits of Mindfulness. What links are you referring to?
     
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