Confusion about what Jesus Said

[Veteran1990]

I have always been confused about The Doctrine of Salvation based on what Jesus said. My logical mind can not comprehend it.

Jesus effectively said that if you Love Him you shall obey his commandments, Yet, His commandments are the ten commandments.

The first five applying to God and the second five applying to man: to Love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Does The Bible Negate this by stating that if you attempt to follow the ten commandments you shall fall under a curse, and that Jesus shall only ever give those The Holy Spirit who follow His commandments?

It literally makes no sense to me, it never really has been able to make sense to me.

 

[Marc Munday]

I have always been confused about The Doctrine of Salvation based on what Jesus said. My logical mind can not comprehend it.

Jesus effectively said that if you Love Him you shall obey his commandments, Yet, His commandments are the ten commandments.

The first five applying to God and the second five applying to man: to Love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Does The Bible Negate this by stating that if you attempt to follow the ten commandments you shall fall under a curse, and that Jesus shall only ever give those The Holy Spirit who follow His commandments?

It literally makes no sense to me, it never really has been able to make sense to me.

If you follow the two greatest commandments of the new testament which Jesus Christ made you cannot possibly break any of the 10 commandments BUT we cannot keep one commandment let alone 10 if we break one we break them all and we always fall short everyday BUT we have an advocate in Jesus Christ who is part of the trinity.

That is what makes John 12:37-40 so important and it never preached I only got pointed out to it yesterday.

Matthew 12:47-50
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.49For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Does this mean we should sin by no means, BUT we should be preaching this off the roof tops and letting Jesus Christ transform people with his word.

 

[Veteran1990]

If you follow the two greatest commandments of the new testament which Jesus Christ made you cannot possibly break any of the 10 commandments BUT we cannot keep one commandment let alone 10 if we break one we break them all and we always fall short everyday BUT we have an advocate in Jesus Christ who is part of the trinity.

That is what makes John 12:37-40 so important and it never preached I only got pointed out to it yesterday.

Matthew 12:47-50
47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.49For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

And I think this is where I get the most confused.

Based on an analysis of what God said, it seems to point out that Jesus shall not Judge them, however God The Father is stated to have given Jesus the position of Judge in The Bible.

My curiosity is that if we can not keep the ten commandments, how do we ever receive The Holy Spirit? From what I was capable of understanding Peter was asked by God if he loved him, three times, as a result of what Peter did.

My problem with this is that God yet, seemed to Give The The Holy Spirit despite their disobedience so is The Basis of Scripture and extent of reality.

Also, I'm not sure if I believe in The Concept of a trinity anymore, as a result of melchezidek being in The Bible.When Compared to that no one has seen The Father, and that Melchizidek's order is lesser than the order of Jesus, which the Bible Imply's that as a result melchezidek is not Jesus and God Himself states that there was no other God that existed before Him it is certain that if Melchezidek is both a priest and had an established order and had no origin that he is part of The Elohim.

 

[klutedavid]

I have always been confused about The Doctrine of Salvation based on what Jesus said. My logical mind can not comprehend it.

Jesus effectively said that if you Love Him you shall obey his commandments, Yet, His commandments are the ten commandments.

The first five applying to God and the second five applying to man: to Love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Does The Bible Negate this by stating that if you attempt to follow the ten commandments you shall fall under a curse, and that Jesus shall only ever give those The Holy Spirit who follow His commandments?

It literally makes no sense to me, it never really has been able to make sense to me.

That is one interpretation. There are some heavier commandments to consider.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Since we are not under the law, I reject the commandments taken from the law.

 

[coffee4u]

I have always been confused about The Doctrine of Salvation based on what Jesus said. My logical mind can not comprehend it.

Jesus effectively said that if you Love Him you shall obey his commandments, Yet, His commandments are the ten commandments.

The first five applying to God and the second five applying to man: to Love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Does The Bible Negate this by stating that if you attempt to follow the ten commandments you shall fall under a curse, and that Jesus shall only ever give those The Holy Spirit who follow His commandments?

It literally makes no sense to me, it never really has been able to make sense to me.

The ten commandments were to the nation of Israel, his commandments to us are this:

Matthew 22:36-40
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you are loving God and loving others you will be following what Jesus wants.

The concept of the trinity is very much taught and woven throughout scripture. What falls down is out attempt to explain it.

 

[Veteran1990]

That is one interpretation. There are some heavier commandments to consider.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Since we are not under the law, I reject the commandments taken from the law.

Based on 1 John 3:23-24 does that mean we only have to believe in Him and to Love one another, or are the commandments Completelt exhaustive in The Sense you must follow them all, because if you must follow them all who is going to heaven? Even if we have an advocate,

To what extent if we always disobey? I figure I'm asking what The Purpouse of Following the commandments are if we can not keep them, and if it is not us who keeps the commandments but God's spirit how do we follow them to receive God's spirit if it is nescesarry to keep them to have it?

 

[Veteran1990]

The ten commandments were to the nation of Israel, his commandments to us are this:

Matthew 22:36-40
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you are loving God and loving others you will be following what Jesus wants.

The concept of the trinity is very much taught and woven throughout scripture. What falls down is out attempt to explain it.

God stated that all the law and the prophets hang on those two commandments which is equivalent to saying they are the ten commandments and the Preaching Of The Prophet's so, my question is reiterated. How do you keep the ten commandments if you fall under a curse and are therefore considered religious and attempting to be equal to Yahweh and How do you receive The Holy Spirit if you must Obey Jesus Commandments which are the ten commandments which you fall under a curse for?

 

[klutedavid]

Based on 1 John 3:23-24 does that mean we only have to believe in Him and to Love one another, or are the commandments Completelt exhaustive in The Sense you must follow them all, because if you must follow them all who is going to heaven? Even if we have an advocate,

To what extent if we always disobey? I figure I'm asking what The Purpouse of Following the commandments are if we can not keep them, and if it is not us who keeps the commandments but God's spirit how do we follow them to receive God's spirit if it is nescesarry to keep them to have it?

Very good question.

You have read the verse below.

John 15:4
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

The fruit is love, joy, peace, e.t.c.

So one must believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in order to receive the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is then available to be enjoyed and given to others.

If the branch does not bear fruit, then it is in real danger of being cutoff and burnt.

As the verse above says, 'the branch cannot bear fruit of itself'.

 

[coffee4u]

Based on 1 John 3:23-24 does that mean we only have to believe in Him and to Love one another, or are the commandments Completelt exhaustive in The Sense you must follow them all, because if you must follow them all who is going to heaven? Even if we have an advocate,

To what extent if we always disobey? I figure I'm asking what The Purpouse of Following the commandments are if we can not keep them, and if it is not us who keeps the commandments but God's spirit how do we follow them to receive God's spirit if it is nescesarry to keep them to have it?

You don't go to heaven by following a list of rules. If we could then Jesus would not have needed to die and getting to heaven would be based on our own merits, our own strength. Its a gift of God so that no one can boast.
Ephesians 2:9
not by works, so that no one can boast.

Don't get caught up in legalism, but follow what God wants from you. Not want he wants from you neighbour, but you specifically.

God placed these things upon our hearts so that we could be guided by love, by the Holy Spirit, not by a list that we tick off.
Hebrews 10:16
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

You don't stop and help someone because a rule says 'you must stop and help" you stop and help because your heart and conscious says it's the right thing to do, because you have compassion. The outcome may look the same -a person was helped, but the motivation behind it is different. You are acting out of love not duty.

 

[Veteran1990]

Very good question.

You have read the verse below.

Based on this entire Text:
John 15:4
Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

The fruit is love, joy, peace, e.t.c.

So one must believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in order to receive the Holy Spirit. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is then available to be enjoyed and given to others.

If the branch does not bear fruit, then it is in real danger of being cutoff and burnt.

As the verse above says, 'the branch cannot bear fruit of itself'.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

Jesus seems to be emphasizing that if you obey Him The Holy Spirit shall come. The Last two verses make absolutely no sense to me.

 

[coffee4u]

God stated that all the law and the prophets hang on those two commandments which is equivalent to saying they are the ten commandments and the Preaching Of The Prophet's so, my question is reiterated. How do you keep the ten commandments if you fall under a curse and are therefore considered religious and attempting to be equal to Yahweh and How do you receive The Holy Spirit if you must Obey Jesus Commandments which are the ten commandments which you fall under a curse for?

It's not the same. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is larger and guided by love, not by a set of written rules. Ancient Israel needed those laws written down. God had not yet come and 'written upon their hearts'. We have this and the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is your Lord and saviour you no longer need written laws to guide you.

 

[Veteran1990]

It's not the same. There is the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is larger and guided by love, not by a set of rules. Ancient Israel needed those laws written down. God had not yet come and 'written upon their hearts'. We have this and the Holy Spirit.

It seems like an assumption, what your saying however, given The Context that Jesus Statement involves:

1.) A statement regarding obeying His commandments
2.) That His Commandment's are Obviously Consistent with The Law
3.) That The Law is not man's Guide but The Spirit
4.) That You MUST Obey His Commandments without The Spirit to Receive The Spirit seems its possible that you can Obey His Commandments without GodS Spirit.

I don't think it alludes to the fruits of a Spirit you do not yet already possess. In Terms of Jesus being The True Vine, Spiritually those who are a part of Him Receive OF His Spirit however if you are not, you do not and behave as The World. My Quesrion is , Especially since its been brought up, are those who are effectively IN Jesus Those who have RECEIVED The Holy Spirit, or is it an omnipresent Spirit that indwelling all people? The Emphasis IS important.

 

[topher694]

I have always been confused about The Doctrine of Salvation based on what Jesus said. My logical mind can not comprehend it.

Jesus effectively said that if you Love Him you shall obey his commandments, Yet, His commandments are the ten commandments.

The first five applying to God and the second five applying to man: to Love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Does The Bible Negate this by stating that if you attempt to follow the ten commandments you shall fall under a curse, and that Jesus shall only ever give those The Holy Spirit who follow His commandments?

It literally makes no sense to me, it never really has been able to make sense to me.

That is because you are looking at this the wrong way. Just as the religious leaders of the day did. Jesus is not saying we must prove our love for Him by following the commandments. He is saying giving Him our heart (love) has the ability to transform and empower us to begin to keep His commandments. Obeying His commandments is the outward fruit of the inward change His Spirit produces in us... if we let Him.

Trying to prove our love (commandments) = bondage
Yielding to His love = transformation (helping us keep the commandments)

you have to have the commandments on the correct side of the =

 

[Veteran1990]

That is because you are looking at this the wrong way. Just as the religious leaders of the day did. Jesus is not saying we must prove our love for Him by following the commandments. He is saying giving Him our heart (love) has the ability to transform and empower us to begin to keep His commandments. Obeying His commandments is the outward fruit of the inward change His Spirit produces in us... if we let Him.

Trying to prove our love (commandments) = bondage
Yielding to His love = transformation (helping us keep the commandments)

you have to have the commandments on the correct side of the =

I would like you to explain this as it seems there is no reason it should be this difficult to understand.

 

[coffee4u]

It seems like an assumption, what your saying however, given The Context that Jesus Statement involves:

1.) A statement regarding obeying His commandments
2.) That His Commandment's are Obviously Consistent with The Law
3.) That The Law is not man's Guide but The Spirit
4.) That You MUST Obey His Commandments without The Spirit to Receive The Spirit seems its possible that you can Obey His Commandments without GodS Spirit.

I don't think it alludes to the fruits of a Spirit you do not yet already possess. In Terms of Jesus being The True Vine, Spiritually those who are a part of Him Receive OF His Spirit however if you are not, you do not and behave as The World. My Quesrion is , Especially since its been brought up, are those who are effectively IN Jesus Those who have RECEIVED The Holy Spirit, or is it an omnipresent Spirit that indwelling all people? The Emphasis IS important.

If you want to follow the law you must follow all of it, the Ten Commandments was a small part of the law to Israeli.

We are talking about born again believers here, not the unregenerate. The Holy Spirit is part of the God head. Also it seems you are diverging onto another topic.

 

[coffee4u]

That is because you are looking at this the wrong way. Just as the religious leaders of the day did. Jesus is not saying we must prove our love for Him by following the commandments. He is saying giving Him our heart (love) has the ability to transform and empower us to begin to keep His commandments. Obeying His commandments is the outward fruit of the inward change His Spirit produces in us... if we let Him.

Trying to prove our love (commandments) = bondage
Yielding to His love = transformation (helping us keep the commandments)

you have to have the commandments on the correct side of the =

Exactly this.

 

[Veteran1990]

You don't go to heaven by following a list of rules. If we could then Jesus would not have needed to die and getting to heaven would be based on our own merits, our own strength. Its a gift of God so that no one can boast.
Ephesians 2:9
not by works, so that no one can boast.

Don't get caught up in legalism, but follow what God wants from you. Not want he wants from you neighbour, but you specifically.

God placed these things upon our hearts so that we could be guided by love, by the Holy Spirit, not by a list that we tick off.
Hebrews 10:16
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”

You don't stop and help someone because a rule says 'you must stop and help" you stop and help because your heart and conscious says it's the right thing to do, because you have compassion. The outcome may look the same -a person was helped, but the motivation behind it is different. You are acting out of love not duty.

The Context of what I said is attributed to my question, it is not a divergence.
[Staff Edit]

 

[coffee4u]

The Context of what I said is attributed to my question, it is not a divergence.
[Staff Edit].

What are you on about? I never said you broke any site rule.

I posted here to try and help you but since you obviously don't want help I shall leave. You don't appear to be reading what is actually put and seem to be assigning some other motive.

 

[topher694]

I would like you to explain this as it seems there is no reason it should be this difficult to understand.

I just did. That is part of the core message of Christianity. Don't try to read into it something that isn't there. Read 1 John 4. verse 19 summarizes what I just said, "We love Him because He first loved us."

 

[Tolworth John]

Does The Bible Negate this by stating that if you attempt to follow the ten commandments you shall fall under a curse, and that Jesus shall only ever give those The Holy Spirit who follow His commandments

It is all about one's motive.
Do you keep Jesus's commands because you love him!
Or
Do you keep the ten commandments because you are trying to earn your salvation?

Which is it for you?